Ukrainian refugees in Ireland - Megathread

Beasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919084#Comment_118919084

And Poland is facing a bigger percentage at present. The chances of it being anywhere near 200k are quite low.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919084#Comment_118919084

200,000 is only a worst case scenario, we have already taken.less then expected.

we still have less then 20,000 refugees here. Not such a big figure.

Oh and no I have no issue with numeracy, I deal in facts.

And this boards favourite 'people like you' would you care to explain this?

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919088#Comment_118919088

Those are government projections. Do you have data to the contrary? If not, I’ll assume government modeling is more accurate than conjecture from you.

Poland neighbors Ukraine. Of course it has received the largest influx. Nothing new there.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919101#Comment_118919101

If you can’t comprehend that a potential 4% spike in the national population within a compressed timeline, is a highly stat-sig event, then yes you do struggle with numeracy and you most certainly do not ‘deal in facts’.

Again, if you have some insider track that the government modeling is incorrect, can you share that dataset?

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918744#Comment_118918744

they all get a medical card, something which many of our pensioners are not seemingly entitled to. Many of their host families too..

you can bet when a bit of research is done and they find out about various treatments, medicines are available free gratis for them courtesy of the card,, they’ll be getting stuck into it.

no need for outrage , them is the facts..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919088#Comment_118919088

They also have far more land to cater to the refugees, and considering where they are geographically, it would be relatively easy for Ukrainians to return home, or be pushed there. Ireland has serious issues with any kind of deportations. Also, while Poland has improved considerably in recent years, the standard of living is far more comparable to Ukraine than it is to here, so... there's less reason to stay after the conflict is ended.

Beasty, I'm curious.. Say.. 120k refugees come here, and 6 months later, the conflict is finished, and only 20k want to return. Would you be happy with a 100k Ukrainians settling in Ireland permanently (remember that all background checks were waived, and no visa preparation was implemented for them, so it would be a mixed bag, to say the least).

So.. would you be a supporter of those 100k remaining in Ireland, and subsequently, their husbands, fathers, and other family members coming to join them? (as both the EU and the UN have a big interest in reuniting families of immigrants or refugees).

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118917442#Comment_118917442

Perhaps you need to talk to the ones who had their villages destroyed, left their husbands, sons, brothers, fathers behind as they couldn't leave and were required to fight, and they don't know if they'll ever hug them again...then tell me what the media is saying.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919135#Comment_118919135

They will get a medical card!, because their income is below the threshold.

any pensioners that do not have a medical card, have an income of over 1050 a week.

An aunt of mine has two Ukrainian families living in her home, she doesn't have a medical card.

When the Balkans wars were raging in the 90s, we took refugees, I don't remember all the anti refugee people then! And the majority of them went home.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919205#Comment_118919205

Ireland has only admitted a few thousand refugees from the Balkans in the ‘90s. The scale of the influx was entirely different in nature.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919214#Comment_118919214

How many exactly? Less people living in he Balkans, obviously.

We have only taken less then 20,000 Ukrainians as far as I know?

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919237#Comment_118919237

I don’t recall the precise number, but I’m pretty sure it was < 5K total.

Dayo93

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118899428#Comment_118899428

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118899428#Comment_118899428

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919279#Comment_118919279

The population of Bosnia and Kosovo together was approx 5 million, so fairly ok. We.have only 20,000 Ukrainians so far, and that is less then expected so we are doing ok.

cnocbui

The CSO figures indicate there are about 65,000 holiday homes. I'd guess 5 people per home would easily be a realistic average, so that's a potential capacity to house 325,000. The government likely wouldn't even need to pay owners for their use, just offering a multi year holiday on LPT payments or a reduction in CGT on disposal to 20%, and/or a reduction in inheritance tax, would get quite a few owners falling over themselves to sign up.

You have to sadly laugh at people who think 200,000 is a lot in the circumstances; Moldova have had an influx of 413,374, which is a 10.24% increase in population, and yet people are saying we couldn't comprehend a 4% increase. Then there is the small issue that the the per capita net monthly average income in Moldova is €330 vs Irelands €2,564.

Moragle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918874#Comment_118918874

Fair play to you and I wish you well. But for others who live in Ireland, can't rent or buy, as much as our hearts go out to the Ukrainian refugees, we're struggling for homes ourselves. Or waiting years on medical care. We Have to be practical

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919199#Comment_118919199

I know what the media is saying. We both know what the different outlets are saying. It's a feeding frenzy of coverage out there. I doubt we're seeing different media coverage.

As for the rest, sure... perhaps I do, although, to be brutally honest, I don't think it would change my views all that much. The Ukrainian conflict is little different from dozens of other conflicts that have happened during my lifetime, except that this one is at the edge of Europe. And yes, I have spoken to people in Africa, and Asia about their own experiences in warfare or as a civilian during such a conflict as in Ukraine, a civil war, or a genocide. I did a stint as a volunteer (shocking as that might sound) in East Africa over a decade ago.

I find that people are going somewhat over the top in their reactions or opinions about Ukraine. As if we're seeing another holocaust, or disaster of epic proportions. We're not.

But, I'll lay the same point back on you. If I should speak to those who have directly been affected by the conflict, then, perhaps you should do the same with those who left Ukraine long before the conflict reached their home areas, or those with little experience of the actual conflict, beyond leaving their country over it. That way we both gain a different perspective.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919214#Comment_118919214

I also find it interesting, that if you're critical of what's happening, the shoddy planning/implementation, and concerned over the long-term costs to Irish people (or the economy)... then, you are "anti-refugee". Isn't that nice? (the rolleyes emoticon really needs to be bigger).

Also.. remember when this conflict kicked off and 20k refugees sounded like a large number? This 200k has made us sooo much more comfortable with just 20k coming here. Really makes me think as to how the government and the media prepares the population for acceptance over certain issues. Throw out a huge number so that what would previously have been considered really big, is now.. acceptable.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118917299#Comment_118917299

No, I haven’t. I’m sure it’s not fun for those affected.

I’m just saying their numbers are relatively low.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919325#Comment_118919325

With government modeling projecting 200K. Do you think this conflict is almost over?

titan18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919413#Comment_118919413

So your solution is to take people's private property that they've worked for?

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919413#Comment_118919413

It's very unlikely people will hand over their holiday homes for the benefits you have outlined here. The owners would still have to pay insurance, maintenance and perhaps mortgage payments. You want to reward them with a break in paying their lpt -😂Discount in CGT and CAT may not even be relevant to alot of owners.

Many holiday homes are in remote locations- Do you really think housing Ukrainians in for example a cottage in Connemara with no transport whatsoever is viable?

titan18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918901#Comment_118918901

There's feck all empty properties that are suitable for use, and again, they're owned by people. Are you proposing forcing owners to give up their own private property?

If the councils/state have loads of empty properties, it'll be a bit of a kick in the teeth then to actual Irish people who haven't been able to buy a house or house themselves for the last few years.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919413#Comment_118919413

You have to laugh at a poster who thinks it’s viable that home owners will be tripping over themselves to hand over their properties as a result of some minor inducements proffered by an incompetent government. It’s about as realistic as the ‘arrangements’ another poster is proposing for Ukrainian professionals.

Of the 400K+ Ukrainians who have entered Moldova, over 300K have already ventured further west to more affluent countries. You can be sure that the remaining 100K are holding out hope to return home ASAP.

BTW, how many Ukrainians has Australia pledged to offer sanctuary? Has your country committed to an appreciable % population increase?

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919135#Comment_118919135

I'm not entirely sure what type of medical cards are being issued, there are a number of categories but this aside , if its a Full Medical Card it does permit free access to a GP, A&E and yes ,Tests, Scans etc , it also means Medicine costs free with the exception of prescription charges.

However, it's important to put a number of things into context .

A. Gaining access to a GP for Refugees will prove exceptionally difficult. Generally a Medical Card is attached to a GP service which is geographically located in the area a Refugee lives. If as is apparent, there's a lot of moving going on, this makes putting in place, registration with a defined GP, very difficult. This aside, few GPS are taking on new patients so it's highly likely these Refugees will be entirely dependent on A&E hospital care and let's be blunt, not a pleasant experience with over crowding.

B. Mention of free Treatments a little disingenuous, if , regrettably and after prolonged wait for tests something is found that requires major interventions, it could be , months and more likely years before such interventions take place, that's just a simple fact, such are the waiting lists.

It is my impression, the Medical Cards were issued , essentially to cut red tape and cost for Refugees so they could access hospital care free and immediately, I'm not suggesting GP's would actively avoid assisting, but the harsh reality is, there is very little , if any access available to GP's and even if there was, the admin involved processing a new Medical Card patient is very complex and time consuming and subject to a lot of eligibility criteria.

Dempo1

RTE Reporting this morning that over half the people who pledged accommodation can not be contacted.

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919560#Comment_118919560

Here's the thing. 1000s of people who pledged a room have already gotten their own refugees through Facebook. They wouldn't wait months waiting on the Red Cross. Government were delighted at the amount, they thought, were coming to stay with relatives. 1000s, they thought, on top of the 20 odd thousand pledged. Problem the 1000s weren't extra beds. They are from the already pledged beds. Host families then get onto Red Cross site only to discover that there is no way to remove your pledge even though you already have refugees & no longer have room.

This doesn't mean some haven't changed their mind

Multipass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919416#Comment_118919416

I think the people who think we can easily take in 200,000 people are those with secure housing and health insurance. They have no real idea the state of services here, they get to skip the queues. What do they care if the queues get longer, it’s just something they read about in the papers.

keoclassic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919560#Comment_118919560

Of course they can't, and who can blame them. Minister mc entee didn't show thow the situation in a good light last night on prime time when she couldn't put numbers on the influx, couldn't put time lines on suitable accommodations being ready and didn't give specific answers to the questions she was asked. Alot of, "we are looking into" "we are awaiting departments to come back to us" "cabinet will be discussing" etc etc.

I agree with the poster who says if you say that you have real concerns, you are labelled anti-refugee. I don't think I've seen any anti refugee posts. What I have seen is people airing their concerns and other posters trying to brush them off as nothing. I have no house as it stands, so yes I'm concerned what would happen to my family if we gave to move. But we have to look after the refugees no matter what is the trend on this thread. I take my hat off to any person who has taken a family in, they don't know how long they will have them, how much it will cost or the issues it may bring. It may be a worthwhile enriching expierence or it may be a disaster. But fair play to them. But this whole thing is I'll thought out.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919179#Comment_118919179

We should be forcibly deporting Ukrainian women and children who just arrived.

That's next level scummary.

You've out done yourself. 👍️