Ukrainian refugees in Ireland - Megathread

titan18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919600#Comment_118919600

Yup, people in their 40s or 50s who've been able to live their lives and buy houses and start a family. Much like the covid lockdowns, they won't bear the brunt of this.

It'll be people in their 20s and early 30s who do. Already can't buy a house and had years taken from experiencing life and now being told, you've got to bear some more sh1t here.

Cal4567

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919600#Comment_118919600

I have no doubt that's correct. It mirrors exactly what I am hearing from friends and acquaintances.

While I almost don't doubt the good intentions behind it, it is naïve.

I said earlier that we of course have the moral right to take people in but we do not have the built infrastructure.

If successive governments had been serious about the housing needs of its own population over recent years, we might have had a chance.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919555#Comment_118919555

It’s full medical cards. To be reviewed.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118917115#Comment_118917115

I know single parents on housing lists for years who are waiting for a house.

I have friends who in a city centre it took them 4 months to find a house to rent.

I know of friends who split up with with their partner and had to move home with their parents because they couldn't afford to rent on their own.

I know a couple who when saving for a mortgage had to both move home to their parents to save while they also had a child.

I know loads of people in their 30s who are working and can't afford to move out from their parents.

I walked through town late at night for the first time in years a few weeks ago and nearly every shop doorway was full of people in sleeping bags.

Where exactly is the plenty of room for these people.

Then you take into account with the current population.

We have a housing crisis

We have a health service at breaking point

We have waiting lists for kids places in schools

We have a shortage of GPS where people are having to travel miles for a gp

Maybe you live in a different country to me where inviting 200k people won't make those things much worse for irish people and Ukrainians we bring here.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118916836#Comment_118916836

• Poland has taken in 2,514,504 refugees

Taken in, implies that they are giving refuge for them to stay there. Like when our useless politicians say we'll "take in" up to 200k.

bertiebomber

When the government are virtue signalling real mathematical logic never comes into it. We cannot house educate & medically look after 100k new people in Ireland as all our systems are falling apart. GPs are retiring with no replacements, the young doctors are emigrating to have a better quality of life in Australia. The influx will destroy the last remaining pieces and we will then be just another poor country.

I am sorry for the refugees but why they are not resettling in the west Ukraine is troubling maybe the bulk of the east are russians who dont want to be in Russia, but Mr Zelensky wants them out. He did say his country will be more like Israel after the war, a very telling comment.

Nermal

This is, de-facto, a NATO-Russia proxy war.

So why shouldn't those fleeing the war should be accommodated in NATO countries?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919237#Comment_118919237

2 days ago we had over 21K refugees already with up to 600 a day arriving on a daily basis as we speak https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/fears-grow-in-government-about-irish-capacity-to-house-ukrainian-refugees-1.4849488

Helen McEntee on Prime Time last night confirmed we will be over 45,000 refugees by May and was stumbling and stuttering when questioned by Sarah McInerney on how we will manage. McEntee was grasping at straws saying we would "put together" a report, "look into" getting sports halls, "write " to local councils asking them to identify hotels and vacant houses ! She is completely out of her depth yet only a week ago said "Ireland will not be found wanting" in it's response. She is the queen of virtue signalling, this is about looking good for Europe and lining up a job for herself there in the future (REMEMBER she was Minister of State for European Affairs and spent most of her time in the EU!!) Is Helen taking a refugee into her mansion? Is Leo, Michael Martin, Claire Byrne, Ryan Tubridy??? Its much easier to climb Croagh Patrick with Charlie Bird and look good......and its easy to virtue signal about opening our doors to Ukranian refugees but none of the above will be taking a refugee or will be impacted by any of this, yet they preach about it every day and every night on our screens!

My proposal: Yes take up to 25K right now. Then press the PAUSE button and see if we can accommodate that 25K, have they all got accommodation, have all the pledged houses been contacted, where will they move to after they reach these "reception" centres or will they be there for months? If this goes ok and we have accommodated the 25K, then take in another 25K and stop again at that point. On Sunday night 600 Ukranian refugees arrived into Rosslare in the dark, standing on the pier with just their bags, they were frozen and hungry and nobody knew they were coming. Staff in Rosslare managed to get them to Arklow but nobody was prepared, there was no Government or Red Cross reception and they are currently in a Sports Hall in Arklow. This is happening every day now, more and more........we have no border reception point at ferry points and more importantly NO PLAN!!

Unlike Poland and other eastern European countries Ireland has almost no houses!! Last night a Ukranian woman on Prime Time sounded surprised saying she couldn't find anywhere to rent for herself and her daughter! Eh hello?? Welcome to Ireland 2022, join the club, join the tens of thousands of Irish people working their butts off for years, with good incomes who also cannot find accommodation !! We are at historically low levels of stock and this is going to have a huge impact on us and on any refugees we take.

We also have nurses and doctors emigrating en masse to Australia!! (I was at GP yesterday and the young practice nurse is emigrating on 6 May). We also have an ageing GP service with no new GPs coming up, its almost impossible to get a new GP in any area now! This is a huge issue. My daughter lives in Limerick, returned from Vancouver last year and still has to come up to Louth to see her childhood doctor as she cannot get onto any local list. This massive influx of Ukranian refugees is the start of a huge societal change in Ireland, there will be no going back, this will impact on the least well off Irish citizens for a generation. We need to have our eyes wide open to what is coming down the tracks for Ireland. Helen McEntee, Michael Martin, Leo Varadkar, Claire Byrne, Ryan Tubridy will all have gone on to better jobs, bigger pensions. glorious retirements.... they will not give a damn about any of us then.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918193#Comment_118918193

Some people would want to get their heads out of the clouds. The "it'll all be grand because we're so nice" crowd will drown Ireland. Lower our educational standards to help, lower our health standards to help, lower all our standards and become a 2nd or even 3rd world country, to help. Rolling blackouts, water shortages, waste mismanagement, but sure the Irish can just suffer as one of them said earlier in the thread.

The churches power is gone, but the need for self-flagellation hasn't for a certain cohort.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919742#Comment_118919742

I know single parents on housing lists for years who are waiting for a house.

I have friends who in a city centre it took them 4 months to find a house to rent.

I'm not sure it's camp beds in a community hall that has created the difficultly for your friends.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0413/1292001-cabinet-refugees/

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918770#Comment_118918770

No one said that. If you need to lie and make stuff up, you have no actual relevant arguments.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918825#Comment_118918825

Would these be the same schools throughout the country using prefabs due to the lack of space?? They'll just fuzzy feeling these spare rooms up??

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919794#Comment_118919794

Is the plan for them to stay in those permanently?

Are we going to deny them medical care?

Are we going to deny them an education?

Are we going to deny them a gp?

You seem to have missed that part of my post.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919597#Comment_118919597

"Can't be Contacted" is the point, it's not terribly difficult for someon to pick up the phone or respond to an email 🤔 why have these people, seemingly dissappeared. Of course I understand people have a change of mind, circumstances etc but I think these people have actually achieved the opposite of what their original good intentions may have been.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919630#Comment_118919630

And I agree, particularly re Helen Mc Entee"s less than reassuring appearance last night.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919712#Comment_118919712

Reviewed 🤔, that seems odd but thank you for clarification re what type, but my points re usage/ benefit of same and limitations re access to Gp"s remain.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919812#Comment_118919812

Why would you deny anyone medical care?

As has been pointed out already, the vast vast majority of the refugees here are young women and children, not the demographic to over burden a health system.

That's not my opinion.

As for education.

Mr Boyle also welcomed the Taoiseach's commitment to transfer money from the Covid reserve fund to help arriving children. Micheál Martin has said 2,000 students have already enrolled in primary schools, with 1,800 attending classes in secondary schools.

Mr Boyle said primary schools were under less pressure because enrolment is currently 25,000 below peak,

No Ukrainian I have spoken to in the past 6 odd weeks wants to stay here a minute longer than necessary, they all want to go home and resume their normal lives which they had a mere short time ago.

But let's keep inventing sticks to beat them with.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919848#Comment_118919848

If you have a medical card, and can't find a GP locally, the Dept of Health will force a GP to take you on.

"Contact us if 3 GPs have declined to accept you on to their patient list. We will assign you a GP."

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919782#Comment_118919782

Excellent post, I have to say, your observations spot on, albeit won't be appreciated on this thread by some.

But, apart from your observations on GP situation, I posted earlier that despite issuing Medical cards, it's most unlikely Refugees will gain access to GP care, partly because of lack of Gp"s, partly few GP's taking new patients and the complexities around registering a Medical Card holder with a GP practice. In essence these MC will primarily be used in hospitals that are already struggling.

A more immediate concern however is that even if Ireland stops, we're are €25k new people to an already distasterous housing going to live. I don't get this "Short term Narrative", the vast majority of Ukrainians arriving here will be here far longer than 6 months, I believe its more likely 2 year at a minimum.

These pie in the sky notions about vacant properties, holiday homes, planning fast tracking is quite simply nonsense.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, we're heading towards Direct Provision+

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919920#Comment_118919920

AS I stated above. If you have a medical card, and 3 GPs turn you down, the HSE will force you onto a local doctors medical card list. Making it harder for John and Joanne Q Taxpayer to see a doctor.

keoclassic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919794#Comment_118919794

And where do you think they go after that? Where is the accommodation for them? Do you know something our ministers don't? Why don't you give us the breakdown? Wise up for crying out loud.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919671#Comment_118919671

People in their 30s, 40s and 50s and 60s are opening their homes to refugees.

I know several of them.

Whatever you mean by "brunt" they are elbow deep in it.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919939#Comment_118919939

Not your house anyway I imagine.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919894#Comment_118919894

😂😂😂😂, now your being utterly silly and perhaps don't get how the systems works, if a GP is not able to take on a patient, are you seriously suggesting the HSE or anyone can force them too. Notwithstanding the complexities involved in registering a MC patient with a GP practice, I think your doing a spot of wishful thinking 🙄

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919937#Comment_118919937

And I've just responded to your absurd point and utter naivety on how the system works, your referring to normal times and months of administrative hurdles to be assigned a GP in the scenario you lay out, this is NOT a normal scenario.

Almost as absurd as others thinking HAP payments will be lashed out, willy nilly.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919893#Comment_118919893

Well if we increase the population than we will be denying more people medical care.

We have people on hospital waiting lists for years waiting for procedures and due to Covid that list is much longer. Ukrainians I assume will be on the end of that list so if they are here a short time they will be denied any procedures they need.

From what i have read Ukraine has a very low covid vaccine uptake, they are very likely to take up hospital beds and kids regularly need checkups.

On schools maybe in my city where kids are on waiting lists and schools are struggling for teachers that is not the the same elsewhere.

Just to add to your comment on inventing sticks to beat Ukrainians with.

I have not said anything about the Ukrainians, we should certainly help as much as we can.

It is the government I have a problem with.

Bringing 200,000 Ukrainians into Ireland when we cannot guarantee them accommodation, healthcare, education and a gp is not right, we can't provide them adequately to out population as it is.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919893#Comment_118919893

As has been pointed out already, the vast vast majority of the refugees here are young women and children, not the demographic to over burden a health system.

Children are a massive burden on the health system - its the very young and very old who make up most of any GP or A&E visits

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919968#Comment_118919968

"Contact us if 3 GPs have declined to accept you on to their patient list. We will assign you a GP." is a quote directly from the HSE website.

https://www2.hse.ie/services/medical-cards/gps-who-accept-medical-cards.html

Boggles

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40826489.html

Nikolai, a qualified surgeon and his wife who is an anaesthetist hope they can give back to the Irish for their hospitality through helping them medically,

An anaesthetist, hopefully she has already been put to work, worth her weight in gold.

titan18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919953#Comment_118919953

Great for them, they have homes. They're already better off than the people I meant.