Ukrainian refugees in Ireland - Megathread

Patrick2010

Housing lecturer suggesting the government can take private property if its not offered...

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/housing-crisis-ireland-3-5737474-Apr2022/

If owners are unwilling to voluntarily pledge their holiday homes and build-to-rent apartments, then the use of emergency legislation is always a possibility. During World War II, Section 2.2(g) of the Emergency Powers Act 1939 (which lapsed in 1946) authorised and provided for ‘the acquisition, taking possession, control or use (either by agreement or compulsorily) by or on behalf of the State of any land or other property whatsoever.’ (It also made queuing for buses compulsory.)

Any government would be very reluctant to use such legislation, and a high bar would be needed to make it unchallengeable, but there is a war ongoing at the edges of Europe and it should be an option.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920424#Comment_118920424

Who is putting 50k, 100k, 200k through the system? 😕

Does every refugee that come here require immediate and acute medical care?

They are young women and children.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920274#Comment_118920274

So you think a holiday home in the wilds of Connemara or the hills of Donegal is a viable option - its not, its just not. If you think the government will lay on transport to get people living in these areas to school and work you are living in la la land not Ireland. Holiday homes in more built up areas could be an option but owners need to be incentivised properly - a break in LPT, CAT or CGT just wont be good enough.

Think about it you want people to hand over their holiday home indefinitely , still fund running and finance costs of the house, perhaps run the risk that they may struggle to get possession of their house back and run the risk that there house will be wrecked.

Holiday homes or homes of elderly nursing home residents is not a viable option for so so many reasons.

The solution is the government need to build some kind of prefab/kit style housing fast - not ideal but meet the purpose. This was done in the UK after WW2 to house people. These areas could include temporary schools etc staffed by ukranian teachers, health services staffed by Ukranian GPS etc. The Ukranians 100% do need our help now but we cant do that from our current housing stock.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920449#Comment_118920449

So the fact it has been talked about as a scenario means it is not fantasy.

So what figure do you expect to come in if the figure has already been broken down?

Then tell me if you believe we can adequately provide that figure with needs they will have.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920464#Comment_118920464

Did the poster say all of then would need immediate care?

No the poster said the system is already stretched which I believe you agreed with.

So if we have a few thousand needing medical care how do we provide it when we can't currently provide it to our current population.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920264#Comment_118920264

Well exactly, mismanagement has always been an issue. Few refugees won't change that.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920548#Comment_118920548

What few 1000 need immediate acute medical care?

Again they are women and children predominately.

If you hurt yourself today, you will get medical care. So will a Ukrainian or anyone else.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920537#Comment_118920537

I have no idea. How would I? 😕

Is there a particular reason you need these answers immediately?

Do you need to act on them or something?

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920487#Comment_118920487

This Should have been done from that start so there wasn’t a two tier system. Now one person arrives and gets a catered hotel room and another gets a tent. If it’s as big an emergency then tents would do short term then prefabs not built to last. Keep them out of the housing system so they are not competing with Irish people and creating resentment. Think beyond the next five minutes and about long term consequences.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920340#Comment_118920340

Poland 312,679 km2

Ireland 70,274 km2

The point is that Poland has a LOT more land than Ireland. Poland has a LOT cheaper cost of living than Ireland. Poland has a LOT cheaper labour costs etc. to build temporary accommodation, and even if Ireland agreed to pay for it it would cost us a lot less than bringing them here due to the associated costs. Poland is a LOT closer to Ukraine, with direct transport links to get home after the war.

If them points are all going over your head there's not much me or anyone else in the thread can do for you.

Potatoeman

I notice most of the posters in favour of this are not personally taking people into their homes, there are only two exceptions. Giving a second property is a far cry from opening your home and sticking to it long term without getting paid for it.

I will add that though there is a homeless problem it’s mostly addicts sleeping on the street and you can’t stick them in houses or apartments. There are many on the housing list waiting for property in high demand areas and there needs to be a discussion on this. We should not be forking out for property in these areas for someone to live off the system, you take what’s offered or off the list

titan18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920600#Comment_118920600

There's also the ones we don't count as homeless (other countries do) that are stuck living at home with their parents well into their 30s (and at the rate things are going maybe longer than that), or the people stuck renting even though they don't want to be. Seeing someone come in and jump over them to get a free house (I'll include the welfare class in this along with refugees) is galling.

MrMusician18

.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920589#Comment_118920589

What's the average size of a human in km2? 😕

What actual point are you trying to make, they have land, put them there? Absolute nonsense.

Also I don't think anyone can accuse Poland of not carrying their load.

Patrick2010

Some lucky social tenants will get an apartment worth 800k.....

 https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/hammerson-puts-42-6m-price-tag-on-88-dundrum-apartments-for-social-housing-1.4850141

The owner of Dundrum Town Centre has put an indicative price tag of €788,741 on three-bedroom apartments it is proposing to sell to a local council for social housing.

As part of its social housing obligations under planning legislation, UK property giant Hammerson is proposing to sell 88 apartments for an indicative price tag of €42.6 million to Dun Laoghaire Rathdown County Council.

The proposal under Part V of the 2000 Planning and Development Act represents 10 per cent of the €466 million 881-unit apartment scheme that Hammerson is proposing to build in Dundrum.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920600#Comment_118920600

Apart from MaryAnne of course. She should be along soon to shoehorn her daily reminder into the conversation…

I was in rural Mayo for 2 nights over the last week. It was beautiful but unbelievable remote. While that suited me a car was a must ...... there were no schools within 20km and it was a 40 min drive to shops/ places to eat/ bank/ petrol station for another . I suppose people who owned places like this would know themselves that their property would be unsuitable??

The bigger thing is surely that most of these holiday homes can command a weekly price of anything from 600 - 1000 per week. That would be from the period of April right through to September and maybe longer .... bank holidays weekends of which we have many (!!) Easter, Christmas etc. So from a financial point it would make no sense to take it off the holiday market. For many people this could be their retirement income, or a supplementary income to farming or whatever. You would want to be getting a lot more than €400 a month.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920645#Comment_118920645

Jesus. G'dluck.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920589#Comment_118920589

Your land area argument is fatuous. Poland have 8.46 refugees per sq Km whereas Ireland currently has 0.28, and would still only have 2.84 if we ever took in only 200k. At Poland's rate we whould have to take in almost 600,000 to match them.

Poland is over-stretched, it's ridiculous to suggest they should take Ireland's share if we just hand over some money.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118921343#Comment_118921343

Polands population is more densely clustered than Irelands. Ireland has one of the highest amount of population living rurally in the EU.

That means that there is less land available to build houses compared to Poland, as Poland builds up in cities, we build out in both cities and the country. Thats the context you dont get by looking at population densities alone - sure Finland would be the least dense country in Europe - but only because most of that landmass is nigh on uninhabitable.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118921409#Comment_118921409

This has nothing whatsoevever to do with building houses. That takes too long. This needs to be about what can be done with immediacy.

Electric Sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920632#Comment_118920632

That is interesting. For the record, which countries consider renters to be homeless?

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118921343#Comment_118921343

Hahaha, the very argument i was told wasn't being made rolled out from another angle. Poland haven't taken in 8.46 refugees per sq km. That amount have transit through the country. If I let 1000 people walk through my front door and out my back door to get to another point, i'm not accommodating 1000 people.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118921409#Comment_118921409

How is it inhabitable?

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118921445#Comment_118921445

And what can be done with immediacy? Offer holiday home owners a pittance to take refugees indefinitely, in places that generally have poor transport links to anywhere?

There is not exactly a glut of spare accommodation in this country, not sure if you've been living under a rock for the last 5 years but we are in a record housing shortage.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118921585#Comment_118921585

There are huge amounts of unoccupied properties in this country. Our housing shortage is mostly a social housing shortage and the fact that everyone wants to live in the same relatively small areas

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118921602#Comment_118921602

ah our resident FFG cheerleader has arrived to tell us all that the housing crisis is imaginary, and that it only exists in a few small areas, and those pesky dolers looking for free houses 🤣 truly delusional if you think our housing shortage is "mostly social" or that everyone wants to live in same "small areas".

If that is the case, then why is it that we have consistently for the last 8+ years failed to built enough new houses each year to meet existing demand? The target is 30k+ units every year, and we arent even hitting that nationwide. If our supply isnt even meeting conservative demand targets, how can there not be a housing crisis?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118921617#Comment_118921617

Social housing is not free houses. And I would never be derogatory like you when speaking about unemployed people. Dunno where your getting the ffg cheerleader rubbish from either, I have never voted for either party.

It's fairly obvious to everyone what happened. We had a recession and building stopped. Government hasn't built social housing for many many years. And yes, everyone wanting to live in small cities or particular areas of small cities, is a small area 🙄

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118921637#Comment_118921637

There is a housing shortage in almost every town and city across the country. It absolutely is not confined to a small area or "small cities", whatever they are. Is wanting to live in Greater Dublin Area a "small city"??

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118921665#Comment_118921665

Pretty small yeah, if everyone wants to live there.

Sure you think Finland is inhabitable 😂