Ukrainian refugees in Ireland - Megathread

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937432#Comment_118937432

No. Voting is tied exclusively to citizenship and being a resident in Ireland. Ukrainians would need to be living here for three years before they become eligible for citizenship applications.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937007#Comment_118937007

Given the extent of destroyed property in Ukraine I can see a lot wanting to stay for an extended period

It's not just that. Think of the aspects like unexploded/uncollected ordnance such as landmines, or anti-personnel devices left behind after the conflict. Considering how much of this conflict has happened in urban areas, there would be a perfectly natural fear for your children in such an environment. Then, there's the problem of arming the population to fight.. it's doubtful that the weaponry will be returned, which means criminals being armed to the teeth, in a country where State services are poorly equipped anyway. I can see a wide range of reasons for not wanting to go back, due to the conflict.

Hell, even without the conflict, I can see plenty of reasons to not want to return. Government/authority driven corruption, a very unstable economy, etc.. all present before Russia invaded. Ukraine wasn't a particularly well operated country before.. and it'll be worse now.

 If the menfolk come over then once/if Irish the housing crisis is overcome (and this war will arguably result in a lot more attention given to resolving it) there is a fair chance it will bring benefits to the Irish economy over the medium to long term.

Consider the ages involved in the conscription of Ukrainian men... that means reunification could easily include fathers, grandfathers, brothers, etc in addition to husbands.

As for the housing crisis... yeah.. I don't buy it. Nothing has changed. The government and planning authority are still inept and prone to idiotic rules which stifle growth, and while the govt are likely to throw money at this problem, I don't see that as being an answer for the mid-long term.

As for the Irish economy.. maybe, although I suspect the negatives will outweigh the positives by a far margin. Not simply the costs involved by the refugees and their families themselves, but the costs of the government initiatives to deal with subsequent issues. The Irish economy is already struggling to provide for the dubious services it already has... that hasn't changed even slightly. I've seen no indication of the govt creating new and amazing income streams, which means taxes going up, along with more inflation, and when the recession hits Europe.. oh boy, things won't be good for Ireland.

Indeed I suspect the age profile in the country will probably reduce leaving a stronger workforce to help pay our pensions when other countries have populations that are aging a lot faster. 

Whereas I'd say that the pensions are on the way out because they're not feasible in a first world nation, with the kind of costs that are incurred in one. Being old is expensive... not their fault, but it's a simple fact in any first world nation. Spain is a great example to see the problems with pensions.. and no number of young people is going to change that the economy can't support it.

And it's debatable what age groups we get over here. We could end up with a majority of 40-50 year olds. It could go either way quite easily.

I suspect the short sightedness of the UK on immigration will eventually result in a row-back of restrictions or an increasing welfare burden as the population ages

Sure it will... however the UK is trying to deal with decades of failures with regards to integration. Social unity is low, which results in the differences between cultural/ethnic groups being reinforced, and while people might cry foul about racism, it tends to raise its ugly head when everyone is congratulated for being different from each other. The British government is trying to deal with the diverse population it already has before importing more problems, and I can fully appreciate their desire to do so. They're one of the first European nations to recognise the downsides of multiculturalism, and the wishful thinking exercise that's been going on for the last 2-3 decades. Don't get me wrong.. I fully expect the English to totally mess it up.. but I understand why they've decided to do it now, rather than later, when it will definitely be too late to do anything.

iamwhoiam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937432#Comment_118937432

No . Not even an EU citizen living and working here for 40 odd years is entitled to vote in all elections .

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118934945#Comment_118934945

How in the name of Jesus did this absolute ball of outright lies get thanked by 18 people? 😕

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937901#Comment_118937901

Appalling, isn’t it Boggles.

Whilst I’m sure that the truth has been stretched in some instances, perhaps people are legitimately concerned that our inept government is opening the doors to 200K / potentially uncapped number of refugees.

Perhaps people are worried about finding school places for their own children? How family members will ever get on the property ladder? Will elderly relatives be able to access healthcare? Despite having sympathy for those fleeing the conflict, people understand that this volume of arrivals will place unsustainable pressure on already woefully deficient public services.

But let’s not worry about any of that Boggles. Let’s just brand people with concerns as a basket of deplorables.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118935027#Comment_118935027

I heard and saw it and it was on prime time, I'm sure there's a podcast.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118934945#Comment_118934945

I think it only fair to point out , Robert Troy (FF) asked about a cap on Saturday with Katie Hannon made it clear there is in fact no Cap permitted under this EU directive.

iamwhoiam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937964#Comment_118937964

I think the words were slightly twisted ,from what I remember the minister said something on the line of " the priority for Ukrainians arriving here will be health and housing " .Some one interpreted that as meaning " Ukrainians will be prioritised for health and housing " and posted that and people ran with it as meaning they would be put ahead of the Irish citizens on the lists .

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937975#Comment_118937975

I wonder how that will work with nations that are disproportionately over-burdened though e.g. Poland.

Will they redistribute refugees equitably across the EU? Population size has to be the right denominator if that’s the case.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937987#Comment_118937987

I honestly don't know but I did find it odd a Cap not permitted officially but assume there has to to be a practical approach to this 🤔

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937986#Comment_118937986

I haven’t listened back to the PrimeTime segment with McEntee yet, but apart from the distortion you’ve called out above, apparently everything else quoted in that post, transpired in that interview, right?

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938002#Comment_118938002

It was a pretty poor interview to be honest , not at all reassuring and I commented on it at the time. To be objective about it , it's a moving situation, very hard for any politician to give a definitive assessment of what's needed. I've been critised to questioning the lack of a plan, infrastructure here, I equally have strong views on how other "invited " refugees have been treated , primarily because I've seen first hand what direct provision is.

I agree the post you refer to had some outlandish claims, I'd have to question any "Charity worker" saying what was proported to have been said but I do sincerely believe there will be no quick returning to Ukraine by a vast majority of refugees, the images of the destruction Mariupol confirm that , it's going to take years to rebuild Ukraine, not just buildings but it's infrastructure, government services etc.

iamwhoiam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938002#Comment_118938002

Not sure which post you are referring to but if it was one that referred to a social workers experience I do not know that social worker or what she said .

bertiebomber

Whether you are a woke supporter of the hoardes coming to ireland or a normal PAYE tax payer who effectively funds this disney world dream, on some level someone has to say sorry we are full sooner rather than later. A work colleague has to travel to Donegal from Galway to see her GP as she cant get onto a list in Galway that has to be troubling to someone sensible in the government or civil service but its not. Just dumping 200k Ukranians on the GP system alone is going to make the GPs tired over worked and un reliable. Perhaps we should make our young doctors whom we educate sign up to give 5 years service back to the country in order to have their fees paid as they used to do with officers in the army who benefited from getting a college degree. Instead we give them 6 years tuition and Australia benefits !! Time for some logical & maybe lateral thinking in the EU loving puppy farm that is our government.

Integritate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938035#Comment_118938035

Here is the Google podcast link for the national radio show that I was talking about, where the charity worker discussed the need for a cap and also spoke about the understandable realities of the attractiveness to Ukranians of children's allowance etc. Starting at about 14:21 into the clip:

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuY2xhc3NpY2hpdHMuaWUvcG9kY2FzdHMvMS54bWw/episode/bzI4Ni0zMDI1LTYyNTk3NjU0NjFiNGQ?sa=X&ved=0CAcQkfYCahgKEwiAh5eY5Zr3AhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQoA0

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938041#Comment_118938041

I discussed the access to GP services issue earlier in the Thread and it's just fantasy to believe these refugees will get access despite the issuing of full medical cards , which incidently is now being reported, few have actually been processed or issued.

To reiterate before I proceed, this not about GP'S refusing or avoiding the problem.

Notwithstanding the shortage of GP's, Surgeries already full and under pressure, assigning a Medical card holders to a GP service is extremely complex and can take weeks/months . There was even links posted to suggest GP's can be forced to take on medical card patients, which is patently absurd.

The harsh reality is quite simple. These Medical cards were issued primarily to waive red tape and expense for those needing to attend Hospitals, this is were the vast majority of refugees will get care , essentially at already over crowded A & E Departments.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938085#Comment_118938085

That's not a proper link.

was this person a caller to the Niall Boylan show?

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938085#Comment_118938085

All I'm hearing is a feature about dogs licking their arses 🤔 was the Actual charity worker interviewed 🤔

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938035#Comment_118938035

Agree with most of this. What concerns me most are the ‘ministers’ leading this effort. McEntee and Roderick O’Gorman are two of the most inept cabinet minister ever to have ascended to those positions. Two individuals driven by likes on social media and swayed by one dimensional NGOs. My fear is that this country will sail into an utter disaster, with those two incompetents at the helm.

Integritate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938111#Comment_118938111

No. 😄

There should be a play button at the bottom of your screen to hear the real interview. But it might not appear on phones. The interview featured charity worker Debbie Deegan and an elderly Ukranian refugee. The topic should be on the Google Podcast playlist on that page. Go into about 14:21 to hear her talk about caps etc.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938143#Comment_118938143

Thanks for posting the link. Doesn’t Debbie Deegan run a children’s charity in that part of the world? Quite a credible source if that’s the case.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938143#Comment_118938143

A I see, I only access boards on mobile 😏

I stand corrected re charity workers comments then 😏

Beasty

EU Information here

https://ec.europa.eu/info/strategy/priorities-2019-2024/stronger-europe-world/eu-solidarity-ukraine/eu-assistance-ukraine/information-people-fleeing-war-ukraine_en#:~:text=All%20EU%20countries%20bordering%20Ukraine%20are%20allowing%20entry,EU%20by%20presenting%20your%20passport%20at%20the%20border.

It basically confirms that all EU countries are committed to accepting refugees (with no reference to caps)/// and sets out the requirements re healthcare, accommodation, schools etc

As far as I can see Ireland is offering what it is required to do under the relevant EU directive

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938143#Comment_118938143

I listened to this interview. Lovely woman.

this is what you claimed in your original post;

'she said that initially most of them did indeed want to return home, but now after learning about the various social welfare services available to them in Ireland; especially the children’s allowance, that many wanted to stay in Ireland and have their male spouses join them after the war'

that is absolutely not what she said, and I would imagine the same woman wouldn't appreciate you misquoting her. She said that they don't know what will happen, most wanted to go home initially, now they don't know, some may stay when they get settled, with children in school etc

She herself then spoke about our social welfare, particularly children's allowance. You are doing this woman and Ukrainian refugees a massive disservice by what you posted.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938179#Comment_118938179

Fair play for being gracious in acknowledging this.

I don’t suppose the usual suspects, who not only questioned the veracity of the link, but went as far as branding the poster a liar, will have the grace to do likewise..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938195#Comment_118938195

I would think that the EU cannot put caps on the amount of refugees fleeing from war into the EU. Imagine the chaos if Ukrainians were told that only 6 million, for example, would be taken?

There would be very many more people leaving, as they would fear not being accepted in future. No caps means no mass exodus of all the population. People can stay, safe in the knowledge that if they wish to flee in future, they will be accepted.

Cal4567

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938127#Comment_118938127

Is that why the Dept of Housing and FF's Daragh O'Brien has now rowed in because of the Green Minister O'Gorman and the FG one, McEntee? From what I can see Housing seemed to have taken a back seat over the first month of the crisis, then we had a statement direct from O'Brien, if I remember in the middle of the week before last, telling us there may be a need to house Ukrainians more than just short term, followed by a call out to property industry experts to meet with him last Monday.

We now see the different constituent parts of the government playing a role on this.

Beasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938266#Comment_118938266

The issue for the EU is how it "allocates" refugees to its members. There is nothing in that link I provided preventing anyone fleeing Ukraine from setting up in any EU country they choose. It is initially for a year, although can be extended up to 3 depending on the situation in Ukraine (that's under the current rules, which may of course be extended further)

The only formal mechanism to deal with "excess" refugees in any country (with Poland being the obvious example in the current status of this war) is within the mechanism to provide support to those hosting refugees. Obviously everyone currently pays into the EU for everything that bis done at EU level. More funds will be required to distribute to those countries that are bearing more than a "fair proportion" of the resultant burden. That probably means the likes of Germany, France, Italy and Spain paying more in and the likes of Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Slovakia, Hungary and Romania getting more out.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938179#Comment_118938179

I would listen to it first.

Integritate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938179#Comment_118938179

No worries Dempo.

I was also surprised at the charity worker's comments, but they were based on practical experience in the real world. Her honesty and work is to be admired.

When you see what is happening in Ukraine, one would want to be stone not to be moved by it. While some people type furiously and angrily on various internet platforms as their response, others get actively involved. I have very time consuming obligations but tonight I will be out raising funds for Ukraine. This will be multi-hour physical involvement in actually raising funds, where 100% will go to source i.e. back to Ukraine. I seek no gratitude; it is just my response upon seeing the Ukrainian people’s steadfastness in their fight against a despot and a much larger tyrannical power.