Ukrainian refugees in Ireland - Megathread

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119478986#Comment_119478986

I would think it's because we are less educated about their way of living as opposed to Muslim way, (and their terrorism, particularly after 911 we heard little else). We knew very little about the Ukraine presidents fame, his wealth, the corruption etc. We only heard of Ukraine for its surrogacy business and its proximity to Russia, very little else.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479007#Comment_119479007

Moaning about it isn't going to make it go away klaz. We have to deal with it

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479007#Comment_119479007

I have already laid out we have grounds in the directive to call a halt to this met with it's not costing that much or Irish get subvention too. The Directive if you look at it have tones a options for a get out. That even before it was triggered. As I said France seems to be getting away with not taking many. As I surmised they probably on agreeing to the Article said they can only take in X amount and stuck to it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119478946#Comment_119478946

I continue to welcome Ukrainians coming to Ireland as refugees. Nothing has changed there for me. Ukrainians are not to blame for any of this. Its perfectly natural to take what is offered when you come from a 2nd/3rd world nation, and can bypass all the restrictions which normally would have prevented access to Europe. You'd likely do the same. I certainly would if I was living in one of the worst economies with such a corrupt society.

The problem is not the refugees. The problem is our government, and the political response to the situation.

As for Syrians and Afghans, they were given a safe place to settle and start new lives. I honestly don't believe we should have provided anything more for them, and we should have done exactly the same for the Ukrainians. The basics. If they want more, then they can find jobs and provide for themselves.. or move elsewhere. Oh, and I notice that you plucked out those two nationalities of refugees, without acknowledging that we've taken in refugees from dozens of conflicts worldwide.. also I suspect you're combining those who have claimed Asylum with those who act as "normal" refugees, which are two entirely systems. (and rightly so.. they should be completely different systems considering the benefits and protections involved)

Ukrainians were treated differently simply because the European governments laid down the propaganda/media foundation to make them Europeans. It became a European war, rather than a completely foreign war.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479021#Comment_119479021

But we don't we can call for a review on the Directive as per the Directive being used. The yearly review is automatic. But there are clauses for countries to say enough is enough. Solidarity is the goto word. And no hardship on the populous taking in said Refugees. At the moment were akin to burning down the house and saying we have room.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479021#Comment_119479021

Earlier in the thread, I made suggestions of how we should resolve it.. but few people were interested. I've noticed that you're not exactly contributing suggestions of how to "deal with it". As for moaning, we all come to boards to bitch and moan... aka discuss topics.

You're simply downplaying the problems involved, and seeking to dismiss the concerns/complaints by other posters. That's not dealing with it. That's seeking to ignore it, and hoping it resolves itself.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479048#Comment_119479048

It seems like they are dealing with it klaz. Maybe not in the way you might choose, but I don't think any of them have died from starvation or exposure to the elements yet.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479021#Comment_119479021

Discussing it isn’t moaning :). It’s impacting our country and the lives and futures of citizens, so a discussion is fine, appropriate and important….

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479041#Comment_119479041

France didn't make grandiose promises of taking in unlimited numbers... that counts for a lot. They kept their promises pretty vague. Same with other nations who have since placed limits.

The Irish government could have negotiated with the EU over the directive, but our politicians saw an opportunity to virtue signal. Which is why all these declarations rolled out before proper research/planning was done.

The thing is that we could still negotiate over how the directive is applied. As you said we have the grounds now, due to how other European nations have behaved. But we won't. This is still the perfect opportunity for our politicians to earn virtue points.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479056#Comment_119479056

Wow. You really do like to go off in different directions. And no, the Govt is stumbling from one bonfire to another.

I'll leave it here.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479068#Comment_119479068

You are reading the fact that not many Ukrainians chose to go there and concluding that France are not "taking them in". Your logic is wholly unsound. France is subject to the same directive. They have no mechanism to limit the number of Ukrainians any more than they have a mechanism to limit the number of Irish people going there.............but you can use your same logic to incorrectly conclude that France somehow doesn't allow Irish people to move there because there are more Irish people living in Spain instead.

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479043#Comment_119479043

I should have added in an etc or as example when naming other countries from which there are people affected from wars. Of course there re plenty more.

And of course most of us have sympathy for the genuine cases of Ukrainians who have landed here.

But I do think we have given more than what was needed to Ukrainians, way too many entitlements for non EU members.

It is completely our governments fault as regards to the lottery package they have given to each Ukrainian arriving here.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479090#Comment_119479090

You have no idea on pronouncing that statement. The French are not stupid. Negotiations before the article have to be taken into account. We will never know but seem they are not taking in anymore. Judging the French SW system your better off staying here than going to France tbh. France and Germany are the big 2 now since the UK left.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479097#Comment_119479097

Given that you think they are preventing Ukrainians who want to go there from going there, it should be fairly easy to find some reliable sources with that information.

Perhaps even some official announcements on one of their government websites etc.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479103#Comment_119479103

Yes because Governments always release negotiation information. Have you a credible reason why their taking in so little ? 🤔 It's almost like they gave a quota.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479109#Comment_119479109

So they are contacting all these Ukrainians in secret and not letting them travel there and the Ukrainians, whom you appear to accept are all just selfish people out to take advantage of anybody and everybody, keep it to themselves????????????

Not many Ukrainians have decided to travel to France. Simple as that. The same as how relatively few have decided to travel to Ireland - at least insofar that less that the Irish "fair share" have come here so far.

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119478927#Comment_119478927

I have already seen that document, and those stats you posted are not anywhere in that document,. Did you pull them out of thin air? Germany, Czech Republic and Poland alone would almost account for the entire almost 3 million that are in Europe. So they are different stats.

Mine came from Eurostat, published just over a week ago, stats for June/monthly, not overall, as many of the countries you have posted, full stats aren't in yet, also millions accounted for in those stats are gone back to Ukraine.

We have taken in many tens of thousands more since then (hence the almost 2% of "actual" refugees in Europe today).

You got the edit in when browser crashed, but not unnoticed that you still didn't acknowledge your beloved directive doesn't state we need to take in more than we are capable of.

I had the breakdown of many figures, but after 2nd crash and knowing why I was posting them (for irrelevant and banal/repetitive nonsense) I won't be retyping them out.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479116#Comment_119479116

Oke doke Suckit. We'll take your figures that back in June Ireland only had 7,140 Ukrainian refugees. I was definitely getting the wrong impression from reading this thread back then.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479114#Comment_119479114

Were you not given the stats earlier about who's taken in who ? Again have you any reason for why Ukrainians would not travel to a first class EU country like France ? Seems very odd indeed. Is their something missing there and maybe unable to get in ? 🤔

On that I will bow out late and early shifts killing me.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479124#Comment_119479124

Well I suppose it must be the same way that Poland has secret rules against admitting Irish people which, despite being kept top secret, are still known to the Irish people who want to move there.

There must be - right? Given that there are only 2,000 people there?

https://www.dfa.ie/irish-embassy/poland/our-role/irish-community/

I mean there are 35,000 Irish people living next door in Germany.....so we should conclude that Poland is not letting Irish people in - correct?

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479119#Comment_119479119

Fine by me, as the stats you are making up, or pulling out of God knows where uses figures that no longer exist, if I was to bother adding up all your percentages that you posted, I would likely be over the 3 million in Europe, if I then added all of the rest that aren't on that list, then I would be well and truly over it.

Do we count our dead and buried, or our Emmigrants as part of our population on the census?

I am using the most recent and most relevant figures, to which it is noted Ireland are taking in the third most per capita in June - We already know that they took in something like 6 times that amount up to July, so it is possible it may go up.

Wherever your figures came from, and assuming they are real, It can only be assumed that they are counting millions that have gone back to Ukraine, and for all we know, many of them may have then decided to come here.

You were not only getting the wrong impression, you were pulling out / making up irrelevant figures.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479166#Comment_119479166

UNHCR Suckit. I gave you the link. You may also see similar figures on wikipedia here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Ukrainian_refugee_crisis

You need to accept that your "most recent and most relevant figures" (from June apparently) are junk. 7,140 here in June? - CSO had over 33k PPS numbers issued by the end of May.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/fp/p-aui/arrivalsfromukraineinirelandseries1/

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479174#Comment_119479174

Eurostat.

I already had that link you linked to, and unlike yourself, I read it. I also looked a little further. But I don't know why I am telling you this, you already acknowledged that you were wrong. I don't see the point in continuing.

You are the one who said 7,140 in June, I never posted a number, because if I had, it would have been the correct one.

I get it, you jumped in feet first. It's okay, no need to keep backtracking.

Still no comment regarding the directive telling us how many is acceptable, or that we must keep taking them in?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479181#Comment_119479181

Hmm. The usual tactic of trying to deflect and shift the goalpost.

Let me remind you what you did say:

If we take into account the number of people accepted in relation to the number of their own population, the largest share of Ukrainians was accepted by Poland (1.6 per thousand of its population), Latvia (1.5 per thousand of its population), Ireland (1.4 per thousand) and Lithuania (1.3 per thousand).

1) So Ireland has taken 1.4 per thousand people. Do you agree that you said that? I can give you the link to your own post if you want?

2) Now, if we can agree on that, do you further agree that the population of Ireland is about 5.1million? Which is 5,100 thousand people?

3) And if we agree on that, do you agree that 5,100 x 1.4 = 7140?

Do you know that the population of the EU is about 450 million people? You have said that the highest per capita rate is 1.6 per thousand people in Poland. That means that if all the other EU countries increased their rate to be in line with Poland (including Ireland) then we would increase the total number of Ukrainian refugees to 450,000 x 1.6 = 720k total in the EU. Does that sound correct?

It's a pretty poor attempt at gaslighting to post such nonsense figures and then turn around and say

you already acknowledged that you were wrong

You have no links to back up your junk "stats" or fanciful claims. I have provided links to verify all mine.

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479188#Comment_119479188

I have the links, I have shifted no goalposts.

I am aware of what I said. I am aware of what you said. You posted stats that didn't appear on the document you linked to, and even if they did, they are irrelevant, as going by the numbers they had, they would have to be including at least 3.5million that are back in Ukraine. So those countries no longer have those percentages, they may have taken that amount in over minths, but we don't know for example if Czech Republic took in 20,000, and then 6,000 went back so they took in another 9,000, then 14,000 went back etc. you get the picture.

Ireland in June took in the third highest per thousand in the EU. They had taken in up to six or seven times that by the end July, so that number could rise.

July stats aren't out yet, June only came out in last week. So the latest stats show Ireland took in the third highest per thousand in the EU.

Ireland currently has 2% of all Ukraine refugees in Europe, which is high. Why do we have that many? Why is it going higher?

See? I can repeat stuff too. I think it may make you understand it, you repeat things thinking I didn't get what you said etc..

We could do that all night. I choose not to. Your acknowledgement of jumping in feet first and getting it wrong, is enough for me. Enough said.

Oke doke Suckit. We'll take your figures that back in June Ireland only had 7,140 Ukrainian refugees. I was definitely getting the wrong impression from reading this thread back then.

Do you agree you said it? I can link back to your post, I assumed it was an attempt at being obtuse on purpose, as nowhere did I say that was the total amount of Refugees Ireland had taken in back then. It is you that was mentioning totals, and as I pointed out, is irrelevant to this topic. So you are correct, you were getting it wrong.

Now, can we address the directive and how many people are acceptable for Ireland to take in and whether or not they have told us how many to take in?

No moving of any goalposts, that question has been asked for days now.

Strumms

Per xxxx people ? Not a maths tactic im interested in.

43,000 had arrived by July 20th.

the government reckon around 35,000 in addition will arrive by the end of the year.

With the exception of  Ukraine, the greatest number of asylum-seekers this year arrived from Georgia, with 1,181 coming into the State.

In addition, 938 Somalians, 572 Zimbabweans and 492 Nigerian asylum-seekers had arrived by the end of last month…

the country, it’s people, it’s financial wellbeing, it’s services, funded by the taxpayers, primarily FOR the taxpayers are creaking.

Suckit

No, it was just referring to the numbers in Ukrainian Refugees per 1000 people. No mention of Georgians, Somalians etc.

The numbers we had taken in, in June (according to latest stats) was the third highest per capita, in EU.

The numbers in July looks like it may be higher, but the stats are not released yet. It wouldn't be surprising if we took in the highest in July and/or August (even though we are only half way through), as elsewhere the majority were returning to Ukraine. But the notion of coming to cold, far away Ireland was too appealing for many of them. Our government saw to that. So the amount coming here, may not have dropped.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479090#Comment_119479090

Another possibility is that per various surveys I've googled, Ukrainians worldwide are 34th in 'medium knowledge of English.' I doubt (can't find it so my opinion) that they have as high a ranking in French.

And, yeah, Ukrainians coming here would have a better opportunity to learn English which they're likely to want to learn.

Donald Trump

...

maninasia

If the students don't get out and protest this there's no hope for us ...or them.

The abject fools in government did this to their own people.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/over-1000-limerick-college-students-may-be-left-with-no-accommodation-as-academic-year-begins-next-month-41911687.html