Ukrainian refugees in Ireland - Megathread

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978127#Comment_118978127

IF they're here for three years, then they're eligible for citizenship applications. It'll be interesting to see if the benefits/supports decline over time, or will they retain everything past the year mark.

And even should the EU change their directive, I'm sure you know that our politicians will continue to do as they have. There's a rather unhealthy focus in our political elite to increase the population of Ireland in the shortest time possible.

0ph0rce0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978226#Comment_118978226

They won't be going anywhere. Who is going to come to Ireland, get a free gaff, all the supports available to set you up for a new life and then just give it up and go home in 3 years to a pile of rubble and work on building sites for years. I don't think so.

By the time the war finishes and the country rebuilt they'll all have made new lives for themselves. Careers, jobs, kids in school & colleges, no way they will just up and drag kids away again.

The cost of living means nothing to them, as it's just woman and children at the moment, even when they do start working they'll only be paying the usual 54 quid a week for the supposed council houses they will be getting so plenty of disposable left.

When the country opens back up they can just jump on a plane for 30 quid to go back and visit.

If I was Ukrainian I'd be ringing everyone I knew in neighbouring countries that fled to get themselves to Ireland now.

Subzero3

I think the s will hit the fan when a families in any estate around the country are sidesteped by a Ukrainian family for a house. In my village there's a good few families on the waiting list and I can imagine the negativity it will generate when it happens.

notAMember

And our local school seems to get a new classroom extension every year. The problem with getting new classrooms is that you need a certain amount of demand, say, another 20-30 children in one year. If they come in dribs and drabs, 2 extra per year, it can take ages. However, if you have 30 children appearing in one go, boom, new classroom demand is there. A portacabin can appear overnight.

keoclassic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978205#Comment_118978205

I agree with that. I do think more and more people will become very concerned as time goes on, and yes, angry. Anger in itself is probably one of the most useful feelings/emotions we have, whether it's used for good or bad..... That's the real question. Its like asking what use is love? The whole subject is very emotive. Who's right or who's wrong is not really the question, the question is, what are the outcomes for all parties involved? Because if the Ukrainian refugees are seen to be benefiting more than Irish people, people will be........ I dunno..... Angry!

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118977624#Comment_118977624

I reckon ff n fg are doing their best to bankrupt the place n then hand the reins over to Sinn Fein in a year or so.

Apparently some of the multinationals are paying corporation tax now on projected future earnings- which is making a cushion now for all the squandering taking place.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978179#Comment_118978179

No its not .

You obviously don't know much about how many Irish children are stuffering due to the lack of resources and placements required for our children especially around special needs

facehugger99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978362#Comment_118978362

FF and FG started to realize a number of years ago that there is no appetite amongst the Irish Electorate for fiscal responsibility and budgetary control.

Covid simply accelerated this process. €50bn added to the national debt in 2 years in a series of unproven , un-costed Covid-theatre measures and barely a murmur of concern.

SF have sat on the sidelines and suggested that more should be borrowed and more should be spent - and risen up the polls while doing so.

Why would any Party adopt a sustainable and long-term fiscal strategy in the face of such an electorate.

This country is being bankrupted by people who will be well insulated from the coming fallout and it's being cheered on by the media and electorate and I'd agree, the current Government are timing this to handover to SF once interest rates start getting jacked up. We will be royally fcuked trying to service our debts once borrowing rates have gone up by a couple of percent.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978038#Comment_118978038

I know of no school in my local area which covers about 25 + schools that aren't over subscribed and 6+ year waiting lists ,the lists for badly needed special needs classes is even longer,some rural schools are under subscribed my most in major urban areas are not undersubscribed

JimmyVik

Its funny reading here that people think the money is there already :)

You know where its coming from. You'll see it in your pay packet on 1st Jan. It will be from the tax payer either by increasing taxes or stealth taxes.

They will start by not increasing the tax free allowance or the bands as much as inflation (thats effectively a tax increase) and then they will cut deeper from there.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978560#Comment_118978560

...once again, taxation is not money creation, debt is, period, taxation is just a critical component of money circulation.....

....the danger comes when fiscal conservatives default to balancing their books, this is where tax increases come into effect, and theres no need to do this, in fact, its dangerous!

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978514#Comment_118978514

It's not my opinion, the numbers are from the department of education, nationally the majority of schools are under subscribed.

It's basic maths. Based on Less children from the peak.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978416#Comment_118978416

You completely missed their point, which is.

You can't be thumping your fists in one thread warmongering and then pop into another and go 'child refugees, fúck them, couldn't be dealing with that'.

One is the by product of another.

As for the lack of certain resources for kids with additional needs, that has fúck all to do with any child especially Ukrainian ones. But great there are getting the blame for that too. 👍️

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978594#Comment_118978594

You obviously dont have kids who are going to school. You dont seem to have a clue about the problems schools already have!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978268#Comment_118978268

They won't be going anywhere. Who is going to come to Ireland, get a free gaff, all the supports available to set you up for a new life and then just give it up and go home in 3 years to a pile of rubble and work on building sites for years. I don't think so.

Even should all those benefits be removed (which is possible), many will want to remain anyway. We're a gateway into the EU. Besides which, we're still a first world nation, generally low corruption, decent educational system, etc. I don't think people realise just how good Ireland is compared to somewhere like Ukraine (besides the fact that it was difficult for Ukrainians to get visas to both Ireland and the EU before the conflict). Any sensible person, especially those who want the best for their children, would take advantage of that opportunity.

By the time the war finishes and the country rebuilt they'll all have made new lives for themselves.

The country rebuilt.. I wonder what people really think when something like that comes up. They'll be finding unexploded shells, and landmines all over the country for decades. They handed out weapons to everyone, which means the criminal elements (or even the average angry joe soap) has access to weaponry, with the experience to use it.. and Ukraine was never the most stable of nations anyway, with corruption and violent crime being serious problems, but will be compounded by what's happened. It would require a massive investment (which might happen, but the EU economy is not doing as well, as in the past, so it's debateable just how much help they'll receive to rebuild.

Nah. Ukraine is going to be an extremely undesirable place to live for a few decades after this. The problems it had before the war are still there.. in addition to a wide range of issues that will come after the war ends. Iraq wasn't submitted to near the same level of concentrated warfare, and they're still rebuilding.. Ukraine will take much longer to improve.

The cost of living means nothing to them, as it's just woman and children at the moment, even when they do start working they'll only be paying the usual 54 quid a week for the supposed council houses they will be getting so plenty of disposable left.

The cost of living will be a factor for them, but they'll find workarounds. Black markets are extremely common in Eastern Europe, so they'll do the same here. They'll form enclaves with strong community links, which will help spread some of the costs around. They're well used to living on less.. something most Irish have forgotten or never knew.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978614#Comment_118978614

Again, it's not my opinion, the figures are from the Department of Education.

If you have alternative figures then by all means post them up, I'll gladly take a look.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978361#Comment_118978361

Anger in itself is probably one of the most useful feelings/emotions we have, whether it's used for good or bad..... That's the real question.

Actually, I'd disagree there. Angry people expend their energy too quickly, and are generally easy to dismiss as being unreasonable. We need people to be determined/focused on implementing change, with the patience to keep after the politicians, because the politicians will simply play a waiting game, until the main force of opposition gets distracted. It's happened time and time again here in Ireland.. usually with the govt handing out a superficial band-aid fix near the end. Which is what happens when we work within a system that our politicians have been building since De Valera. The system is stacked high in favour of politicians retaining their benefits, and authority.. and while an individual might be used as a scapegoat, the party remains until people forget their anger.

TBH I genuinely suspect the only realistic way to implement lasting change is ropes hanging from lamp posts, and a new breed of politicians brought in, destroying the foundations of the old guard political parties. There is no fear or respect in our political elite about what the electorate might do.. and so, they'll mostly dismiss us.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978583#Comment_118978583

And back to the real world - lets see how all our pay packets are doing after the next budget, then we can talk.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978623#Comment_118978623

The department of education have their head in the sand.

I dont need to provide figures to back up that schools have issues. I am a mother of 3 young kids and can tell you the problems schools are facing:

• Large classes - in my kids school ( what would be classed as a small rural school) most classes have over 30 kids to one teacher. This is alot of kids for one teacher to teach.
• One my of kids has dyslexia - the school can provide very little extra help with this as they dont have enough support teachers so I have to pay for private help.
• Next year I will be looking at getting my eldest into a secondary school - I will be damn lucky to get a place for her in any of the schools in our local town. The situation with secondary schools places in my area is already dire without an influx of ukranian children making the situation worse.
• Teacher shortages - one of my daughters is currently being taught by a very young student teacher as her own teacher is sick and they couldnt find a qualified replacement.
• Some kids who truly need an SNA have no SNA at all.

pluckyplucky

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978670#Comment_118978670

I think that's it, actual repercussions are on the way. Could be 3 months away, could be 8 years.

Like I pointed out in France, it's the younger generations that are forming together in solidarity. It is their futures being given away. 18 years old or 35, the writing is on the wall with the practicalities of life.

Whereas the "I'm okay, jack" older generations are more than happy and comfortable to wax lyrical about lovey dovey feelings and scold people for not following the doctrine, it is the younger people paying the excessive rents, the younger people losing access to education, the younger people paying the pensions (which they most likely won't have at all) and so forth. It's a long list of genuine inequality.

They aren't going to stand for this mugging much longer, and the anger is being transformed into long-term planning. Action is coming, out of sheer necessity. I'm personally ready to jump in, many are waiting with eagle eyes, I suspect, for that first domino.

Besides that, simple aging is going to put the cronies out of power, and I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of the generations they've screwed over. They've been handed a mess of a future, squandered, I don't think they'll beat around the bush when cleaning up shop.

We'll see.

tabby aspreme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978594#Comment_118978594

The school's that are under subscribed are rural schools, it seems that most Ukrainian's want to live in urban areas, but I think a bigger problem, is the scarcity of primary teachers, more are retiring than are being trained.

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978268#Comment_118978268

It’s a sweet deal alright. It’s fairly obvious word is getting out too given the numbers now. Hear of some families sending one or two- they’re freely admitting to sending the cash back over to those that remain. It’s a ni brainer with cheap regular flights from Poland etc. I’d come here too. This is economic suicide

pluckyplucky

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978762#Comment_118978762

People aren't very good at thinking things through.

It's not just about the immediate primary education, it's about all education.

Case in point, I know of two college age students (1 year between them), just left secondary school, both did very well in the leaving cert and had eyes on trinity and ucd respectively.

The first one just had to accept that despite doing everything right and working hard, the accommodation for trinity (Dublin) was just out of bounds. Had to give it up. Second one now facing the same scenario.

And now they're talking about requisitioning student accommodation for ukrainians....

A ton of similar stories from their friends. How do people expect them to feel about that? Happy?!

No, this stuff, the invisible cost of the rampant property-above all else, squeeze-as-many-in-to-pump-prices goons aren't going to be forgotten. The resentment is building at a pace unseen (literally unseen, as the media are nowhere to be seen) and it's going to come out in the end. Wait for it.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978594#Comment_118978594

War mongering lol

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978698#Comment_118978698

Sure it will be grand ,the Ukrainans kids will get all the supports funding needed, meanwhile sod Irish kids left languishing on lists for any kind of supports I know families waiting in excess of 7 years waiting for supports for school aged kids and still nothing ,

But yet it's suddenly for Ukrainians.

2nd class citizens and our kids should just put up .

I'm the most pro Ukrainian Poster on boards over the last near 9 years ,I don't have anything against them coming here but not the way the government is going about it ,we can support unlimited numbers coming here we don't have the housing or facilities such as unlimited school places.

But according to posters on here we can cram them in everywhere ,we can sieze properties and holiday homes belonging to people to give to refugees ...

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978698#Comment_118978698

So the schools nationally who are self reporting to the department are what, telling lies, mistaken?

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978292#Comment_118978292

Those that are interviewed appear to be extremely grateful, tbh I'd prefer one of those moving in next door over an Irish 'want everything for nothing' sort of family.

On the other hand, if govt doesn't get its sh1t together and fast, we could be seeing homeless Ukrainians on our streets.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/ukraine-refugees-face-homelessness-after-arriving-in-scotland-3662684

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978988#Comment_118978988

Schools in the East of the country are crammed while schools in the west may be undercapacity. This distorts the figures.

Ask any parent and they will tell you the real issues with schools. Boggles the DOE wont tell you the problems with schools!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978758#Comment_118978758

France is an entirely different situation to Ireland though. They're at least two decades ahead of us in terms of migrant population, and the impact of immigrant groups on the local population. Ethnic/religious enclaves have been established in France, especially in the south, with the forcing of native groups out of the suburbs, or intimidating those who remain. And France has been on the receiving end of Muslim terrorism, and the introduction of very violent organised crime directly linked to the various migrant groups. especially those from the Balkans, or N.Africa. Lastly there's also a historical disdain for migrant groups, especially those from Algeria/Tunisia/North Africa, so that feeds into support for dealing with their problems.

Ireland is lacking all of that. Enclaves are only starting to form. Migrant population sizes are still too small to enforce their cultural norms on locals nearby. And we don't have any historical connections with such groups, except for the Irish guilt over being immigrants ourselves.

Change in Ireland won't happen until Irish people see the problems with multiculturalism firsthand. It's too easy for politicians and the media to deflect attention away from what's happening in Europe, and suggest that we'll be different (by not doing anything differently).

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118979095#Comment_118979095

What about North and South? 😕

Anyway, anecdotes aside, according to the actual schools and the Unions the capacity is there, it will be tough in some circumstances I imagine, but highly rewarding.

Kids deserve an education and it shouldn't be begrudged, it's the one thing every parent knows.

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978876#Comment_118978876

I've one second year college student and another will, hopefully, get a place this year. We don't qualify for a grant, just above a ridiculous small threshold, everything is saving for another year of fees. This year, while my kid wanted to go to MI and do teaching, we have had to ask that she pick a course local as we cannot afford stufent accomodation. Imagine, your child capable of 625 points and because of continuous rent hikes, we had to ask her to rethink her career. If the government slot in Ukrainian refugees to student accomodation, private rental will soar even more for these kids, and only the very wealthy and working will afford the rent. Wtf is happening.?