Ukrainian refugees in Ireland - Megathread

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985327#Comment_118985327

It seems a no brainer to me if I was Ukrainian. What are other European countries paying does anyone know, are they all doing full dole+ children's allowance.

A local vedg grower had 3 Lithuanian lads that left him last year. They were working through covid as it was an essential business while claiming the PuP and got nabbed by revenue. They didn't fancy paying it back n went to Holland working instead, leaving yer man high n dry. It took over a year before revenue twigged which is fairly uninspiring to say the least!

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987387#Comment_118987387

And it seems can give away free no claims bonuses on newly minted unchecked licences if you happen to be Ukrainain.

zell12

“I see this as a basic ask but despite two weeks of banging our heads against a brick wall, there is still no leadership and no plan.” says Labour

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/dublin/fingal/ukraine-refugees-at-fingal-accommodation-centres-are-being-left-to-fend-for-themselves-by-the-state-41595641.html

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987124#Comment_118987124

I was outraged then but the left dominate this state and are hell bent on destroying it. I feel powerless

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987459#Comment_118987459

No Claims Bonuses are cumulative.

From the example you have

provide you with the equivalent of one year’s No Claims Discount

Ring your motor insurance today and tell them you have one year's no claim, tell me how much your premium will decrease.

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987469#Comment_118987469

Well they invited them in. What did they think was going to happen? They’ve also lavished full welfare “entitlements” so hardly “left to fend for themselves”. Typical Labour idiot

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987387#Comment_118987387

I'm not doubting the poster🙄, you seem almost obsessed by jumping in head first to comment without reading or understanding comments 🙄

BluePlanet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987319#Comment_118987319

Don't you find it just a bit weird that in the space of a couple months, we saw images like this of refugees on the border of Poland:

But a couple months later refugees are in train stations, red cross facilities provided and they are all welcomed with generosity?

If this is the way refugees from Syria and Iraq should be treated on the EU's border, than that is also the way refugees from Ukraine should be treated.

If they were, then maybe their dear leader would make the deal that needs doing with Russia.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987535#Comment_118987535

Your comment showed disbelief that a motor insurance company may be discriminatory.

They are, it's a large part of their business model.

🙄

eggy81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987557#Comment_118987557

Isn’t it normally based on statistics though?

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987575#Comment_118987575

Insurance is largely based or should be based on risk.

The Irish insurance industry is largely based on fúcking over the customer. I can't see Ukrainians being any different.

But again a different topic.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987557#Comment_118987557

I'm not doubting their business model, I think most people understand how they operate, I questioning how blatant discrimination is not only being permitted but actively encouraged,

I also went on to express disbelief over how it is remotely possible for the NDLS to exchange Ukrainian Driving licences to Temporary Irish ones with essentially no checks or likely no ability to check.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987644#Comment_118987644

I don't see the major issue.

Billions of people are entitled to drive here on whatever license their home country provided them without checks.

I am entitled to drive most places in the world on my current Irish license without checks.

What exactly are your fears on this non issue?

If they exchange their license here it enables them to obtain insurance and drive legally than normally permitted, attend work, school, social meetings, etc. You'd imagine that would be seen as a good thing. 😕

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987319#Comment_118987319

But where is all this emotion and preaching?

The manner in which we write something, carries all this emotion, along with thrust/focus of that writing style. And no, I didn't say preaching. I said emotional manipulation at the end of a post.

No argument from me and no lecture on how abhorrent it is to simply state fact.

Whereas you might want to drop the may, and potentially from that paragraph, because to provide for Ukrainians to the level that the government has decided to do, Irish people will be pushed into a secondary position.. which includes people who have been already waiting long-term for procedures or care, because the system is overburdened and underfunded.

But then, for whatever reason, you seem to imply that it is "emotional" or preachy or a guilt-trip to simply state another fact

You're deflecting. You know well the reason why I pointed out the emotional tone of your posts. I explained it previously (twice "in fact"), which you have decided to ignore, so you can assume some kind of position as the misunderstood injured party. As I said, if I wanted to be emotionally manipulated, I'd go to mass.

So what is it you think we should do?

We should be encouraging the majority of refugees to remain in Eastern Europe, where they'd be easier to return to Ukraine when the conflict is finished, besides "the fact", that the vast majority of NATO assets, and bases are around that region. That provides a range of derelict or decommissioned bases, which could be used, in addition to the large resource of Army engineers, who are very experienced at setting up operating bases, or logistics bases, complete with all the comforts of the modern soldier. Hot showers, proper sewage, canteens, etc.. all intended to provide for thousands of people at a time, and designed to be set up quickly. Poland is a rather large nation with a developing economy, and the infusion of financial supports from Western Europe to provide for the refugees would be significant boost, in addition to the creation of much needed infrastructure to support them (which might be needed at a later stage should mass mobilisation of NATO forces happen as a result of Russian aggression). Such a method of dealing with the refugees, would provide Western Europe with breathing space to establish the facilities and allocate the resources needed, should these refugees then need to be moved westward...

It makes far more sense to house/provide to the refugees in Eastern Europe than it does to do so in Ireland, or even France. The costs involved differ greatly. Everything in Ireland costs much more than in Poland, especially the cost of labour. Which means that any investment of resources would go far further with the economy of an Eastern European nation than it would in Ireland, both the initial cost, and the costs over an extended period, such as the year mentioned to provide for refugees.

In regards to Ireland, we need to resolve the housing crisis, and that means quick production of housing. Chinese companies have produced 10 story modular apartment blocks in roughly ten days, and there have been similar construction times in other countries, for a variety of accommodation types. We should be putting these up on land which was acquired through NAMA.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-40723086.html

Rather than pushing Ukrainians into peoples homes or supporting them in hotels, with a badly thought out plans and expensive consequences, we should be producing a range of apartment complexes which would provide the Ukrainians with a place to live, a community to build, and Ukrainian teachers could continue the education of children within the same complex. The same complexes could be diverted to social or emergency housing for Irish people, in addition to the Ukrainians. There's a wide range of options with regards to the quick production of housing, which won't be to the standard of Middle class forever homes, but then, they don't need to be. Nor should they. Oh, and I've seen an Apartment complex with four towers, 24 floors each, with 4 apartments per floor, along with parking and services (such as a doctors office, and shops) be built in roughly three months. Surely, we can do that?

But we won't because our politicians love band-aid answers that ultimately do little to resolve the overall issues involved.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987704#Comment_118987704

So, let's assume your able to Travel the world on your licence. Presumably you have insurance in place for that 🤔 and of course your licence is Valid.

Let's then assume your an EU citizen, your able to transfer your licence to country of residence within the EU, presumably, that country through its EU agreement, can check relevant details from home country that the licence wishing to be changed is valid, driver not disqualified, licence revoked (you know, the obvious important details)

Now back to Ukrainian licences. First there was statement that they were not valid in Ireland.

Then this idea, we will exchange them for Temporary Irish one's

Given theres likely noway to check validity of Ukranian license, potential issues, driver banned etc, are you seriously saying this is a Non Issue.

Lets move onto insurance, apart from the bizzare approach to this, is it now the case, a Temporary Driving licence, issued the way it has been is acceptable to use in the taking out an insurance policy, if it is, I think it's extraordinary, and you can bet if there are any accidents, there'll be no easy resolution of claims.

There's so many pitfalls & holes in this idea around exchanges of licences and issuing of insurance policies, I'm reminded of Swiss cheese.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987778#Comment_118987778

I still don't see what the major issue is. Our driving schools and accreditation seem to on the way to mimic the Ukrainian system, not the other way around. If they hold a full license, they are more than capable of operating a car. If they were here on holidays, they would be legally entitled to operate a car on their licence without any background checks.

But again a once in a generation war has broken out in Europe with an unprecedented influx of Refugees, certain "normal" systems will have to be tweaked.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987815#Comment_118987815

We'll put simply, good luck to anyone that's involved in a Tip with a Driver on one of these licenses and magical insurance policies

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987541#Comment_118987541

Look, I'm not going to sit here and tell you that there is not a systemic bias in how refugees are viewed and treated in Europe depending on whether the country they hail from has a certain dominant religion or skin colour / ethnicity. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that it's right and fair and totally in line with any consistent sense of morality that refugees of one category get treated differently to refugees of another. Likewise, I'm also not going to sit here and pretend that there is not a supreme imbalance between the outpouring of emotion and sympathy for Ukrainian refugees and all the other people across the world who flee from suffering and destruction (including those whose suffering is due to Western backed conflict) - nor am I going to pretend that certain people who lambast others for having a different view on what should be done with this particular refugee crisis are not blind to their own biases on other crises.

But that's the world we live in and, while hypocrisy sucks, I also don't think it's necessarily the answer (or indeed realistic) to dream of a day where there will be no hypocrisy at all. So it comes down to what is realistic -- the good, the bad and the ugly. At the end of the day, if you want to end hypocrisy towards refugees then it's really a matter of asking what the logical conclusions to that are and whether they are actually better outcomes -- i.e. either we take all refugees in from across the world with the same outpouring of goodwill and resources as we have for Ukrainians, or we keep all refugees trapped behind fences the same way as in your picture.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987839#Comment_118987839

It will be a valid Irish license and a valid insurance policy.

That's the whole point. 😕

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987541#Comment_118987541

If this is the way refugees from Syria and Iraq should be treated on the EU's border, than that is also the way refugees from Ukraine should be treated.

Not really... because here there was a choice being made. Previously, refugees and immigrants appeared on borders pushing their way in. It was an everlasting flood of people which didn't decline, but has increased each decade in scope.

Racism is part of it. Definitely, especially now that culturalism is included as being racist. People are generally more welcoming to those with similar cultures and ethnicity... and Europe has seen a lot of immigration from M.Eastern countries over the years. History has a lot of bearing in this, and the perspectives individual nations have towards particular groups. It's different for Ireland because we're so far from the historical conflict points, but I've heard French people refer to the Ottoman invasion of Europe, when talking about the numbers of N.Africans coming into France. So, it's worth remembering that none of this is happening in a bubble, and peoples or governments from European nations will be looking at the nationalities involved, and biases will come into play.

A rather long time ago, I spent a few months travelling in Eastern Europe, and I found that Ukrainians were considered more Russian than European. But now, that seems to have shifted to Ukrainians being European, and nothing.. even remotely, like Russians. Previously the association was made because of Ukraine being part of the Soviet Union, and as such, Ukrainians were active participants in what the Soviet Union did in Eastern Europe. And while that perception has declined as people die off, it remains in the general cultural consciousness.. until a crisis like this comes along, and wipes the slate clean.

In regards to Syria and Iraq.. or the M.East.. I think people are simply tired of the numbers of refugees or immigrants seeking entry into Europe. There's been a lot of friction over the last decade, whether that's related to religion, or simple clashing of cultures. So, yeah, they're not going to be treated the same as Ukrainians.. not anymore anyway (they used to be)..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987387#Comment_118987387

Its4women.ie will insure anyone, male or female. Their business model is based on the fact fact that claims involving women are generally lower and the fact that men generally wont go to a site called its4women to get their insurance

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987884#Comment_118987884

I know.

It's discreet discrimination.

It's the equivalent of a tampon add, absolutely none of a mans business.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987765#Comment_118987765

We should be encouraging the majority of refugees to remain in Eastern Europe

Again for the 3rd time.

The majority of refugees or people who have left their homes are in either Ukraine or Eastern Europe.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987228#Comment_118987228

What?????

This is just ridiculous. You think a persons Ukrainian no claims bonus shouldnt be accounted for and you are comparing these.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987778#Comment_118987778

To me this all sounds like some people begrudge Ukrainians driving here.

easygoing39

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118988092#Comment_118988092

Yes I am.Why should a Ukrainian who has no proof of their no claims bonus automatically get a FULL NO CLAIM BONUS from an Irish insurance company???

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987815#Comment_118987815

Or they could not drive?

Subzero3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987870#Comment_118987870

Ukrainians being more European and less Slav is a social constuct.

Nermal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987815#Comment_118987815

They don't 'have' to be tweaked. A choice has been made to tweak them.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118977827#Comment_118977827

bigger class sizes = poorer quality education that’s been proven time and again…

Be interesting when lots of Ukrainians looking to get into third level here in a few months… so more competition… points go up for each course..Places available do not rise, so ?

In a statement posted on Twitter, Harris also said Ukrainian students would have access to student grants and support, including English language training for those who needed it. He said the Irish government would work with universities to ensure Ukrainian students coming to Ireland would be able to continue their studies.

A “personalised assessment” will be put in place to help incoming Ukrainians find work that matches their skills and qualifications, Harris said too..

and the Irish young person will have to scrape and scrap for whatever falls off the table…. I don’t think people have the first idea how difficult things are about to become in this country.

how we are being transitioned to accept that we are becoming second class citizens in a country that is rapidly becoming a democracy now in name only.. what next ? Scary to think.