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Hate Crime

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13

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    #62
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120413387#Comment_120413387

    Ok but this discussion is specifically about hate crime so whataboutery on other crimes is irrelevant.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #63
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,831 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120413189#Comment_120413189

    As much as I agree, I suppose the issue really here is that I don't think any waiters or jewelry shop owners wake up in the morning, afraid to express themselves for fear of being attacked.

    Being afraid to do the things most other people do and don't think twice about for fear of being attacked is a specific experience unique to anyone who looks different in this country.



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    #64
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414303#Comment_120414303

    Absolutely

    My black friend is now afraid to walk around Dublin unaccompanied. As the article above highlighted gay people are now afraid of holding hands in Dublin. Its all very well looking at crime intellectually and dispassionately as if there is no real harm to people but thats not the reality. The reality is many many people are now fearful in their daily lives because of the chilling factors of increased hate.

    Its not just the crime itself to be considered. Its the extra impact hate crime has on people who are targeted. Its the climate and culture of fear it creates.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #65
    BoxcarWilliam99
    Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414042#Comment_120414042

    Crime statistics are facts from the gardai. Not whataboutary.



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    #66
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,831 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416351#Comment_120416351

    You seem to fundamentally misunderstand the definition of whataboutery.



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    #67
    BoxcarWilliam99
    Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416379#Comment_120416379

    The national crime statistics are there for all to see . There are many many victims but not all groups get rolling coverage which can make it seem like that group are being particularly targeted but when you look at the national statistics you see the full picture. That violent crime is up across the country. We are all victims



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    #68
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416351#Comment_120416351

    This is a discussion on hate crime. Your "whatabout bla" is very much irrelevant whataboutery.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #69
    BoxcarWilliam99
    Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416847#Comment_120416847

    Hopefully the legislation is passed soon. Then more can actually be charged with hate crime and punished adequately.

    At the minute the scrotes run the streets



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    #70
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416866#Comment_120416866

    It wont solve everything for targets of hate crime. There are a lot of other things needed like education, victim support, the ICCL call for a national action plan on hate would be hugely beneficial too.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #71
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,831 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416685#Comment_120416685

    I think you are missing the point somewhat.

    Yes, violent crimes are up across the country and I don't think anyone is saying any groups are being targeted in particular over others. I don't disagree with you at all there.

    The point is that the reason some people are being targeted is potentially because of who they are/what they look like. This as a statistic in itself seems to be on the up.

    Now the contentious issue for me is 'well, how do you prove people are being attacked for what they look like, as opposed to a gay person for example just being attacked in general as crime is on the up?'

    I think a good test of this is to ask the people who are in minority groups how they feel day to day walking about towns. I have a a lot of immigrant friends (plus side to having an immigrant partner!) and there definitely is a general feel of unease for a lot of them.

    Sad to say, verbal racial abuse is actually at the lower end of the scale too.



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    #72
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120418849#Comment_120418849

    The courts would look at proof and take things into consideration of what actually happened during the incident. For example if a person is being verbally abused "effing ****" while being punched the court would take that into account. Noone is claiming a person being beaten up who happens to be gay is automatically a hate crime.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #73
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,831 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120419106#Comment_120419106

    Nobody is claiming that it is automatic, you are right. Either am I. But cases are not always necessarily so clear cut.

    If someone is mugging someone else clearly for their wallet/phone and says 'effing ****' half way through when they realise they are gay, is that suddenly now a hate crime or is it still just a 'normal' mugging?

    Is actually calling someone an 'effing ****' in a moment of road rage for example itself going to be considered a hate crime?

    The person having the crime committed against them could interpret it as a hate crime whereas that was not the actual intention of the criminal.

    Yes, there are cases where intent is very clear and simple to work out (ie; a gay couple getting beaten up for holding hands), however I can only imagine there are plenty of cases like the above where it is not.

    I suppose what I am trying to basically say that I am loathe to agree with adding another law that is potentially open to a lot of speculation re its interpretation.

    And this is all before you factor in that religion is seen as a protected characteristic under this proposed new bill.



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    #74
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120419712#Comment_120419712

    Thats up to the courts to decide on a case by case basis.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #75
    BoxcarWilliam99
    Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    Fair enough both of you. I had misinterpreted. You both make sensible points



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    #76
    Rachel High Newsman
    Posts: 0 ✭ Rachel High Newsman


    I think it’s definitely growing and spreading online. I got very bad abuse on Twitter from someone and then from a network of Irish far right accounts when I blocked them, just because I’d rainbow flag on my profile and had reposted a few very non-controversial articles with LGBTQ themes. They seemed to go into attack mode having taken offence at being blocked.

    I ended up basically leaving Twitter because their response was worse than useless when I flagged the posts.

    I know that site can be a cesspool but I’ve never experienced anything like that in 14 years of being on it.

    The online attitudes seem to be bleeding over into the real world too.



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    #77
    jackboy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,574 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Surely the scumbags would quickly adjust their behaviour. If they are assaulting someone they would do so silently or use alternative language to suggest it is not a hate crime. Or, am I overestimating the scumbags intelligence.



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    #78
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,413 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430310#Comment_120430310

    Yes.



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    #79
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120419712#Comment_120419712

    Lots of other countries have hate crime legislation working successfully for decades now. It's not that difficult.



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    #80
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I see there was a load of online abuse and threats made to drag queens in Carlow


    https://gcn.ie/carlow-drag-show-cancelled/


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #81
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 23,276 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    There is a video circulating on twitter today showing a 14 year old getting a pretty vicious beating from a gang of teens (at least 4 or 5 actively punching and kicking him) for being gay. Supposedly all students from a school in Navan although it looks like the attack is on the green area of a housing estate, looks like it was filmed yesterday.

    I'm not putting up the link it's a horrible video.


    Edit: The Garda response to a query from Zara King (Virgin Media)

    image.png


    Post edited by Ten of Swords on

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



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    #82
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,831 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120432139#Comment_120432139

    Well there's a sweeping statement if ever I saw one.

    'Lots of X do it, therefore Y'.



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    #83
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416685#Comment_120416685

    I’m not , but I’m straight and white , literally nobody looks at me crooked ever , I have seen Chinese people for example getting horrific abuse while I’m ignored



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    #84
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Or more accurately perhaps, lots of countries do X, therefore do X.



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    #85
    Cody montana
    Registered Users Posts: 5,268 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120607532#Comment_120607532

    This is disgraceful, that poor kid.

    Is this the only post on Boards about it?

    I feel it deserves and official thread.



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    #86
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 23,276 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    It has been discussed briefly in the Hate Crime Legislation thread in CA as well


    Edit: Dedicated CA thread

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058296839/navan-disgusting-homophobic-attack-on-schoolboy

    Post edited by Ten of Swords on

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



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    #87
    mr.anonymous
    Registered Users Posts: 481 ✭✭mr.anonymous


    Three minors arrested this morning.

    The CA thread is now locked. After reading 10 pages of it, every time I was called gay or **** in school is replaying in my mind this morning.

    On top of the physical assault and mental trauma, that poor young lad has to deal with the fact that the worst moment of his life has been immortalised in a video that has over 5 million views.



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    #88
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2023/05/man-beats-up-86-year-old-woman-with-dementia-because-he-thought-she-was-transgender/


    This is really vile. Dublin man beat up an 86 year old woman - beat her for over 40 minutes, pushed her into a bin, assumed she was trans and therefore a predatory paedophile. Really goes to show how we have developed such extreme far right hate in this country in last few years.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #89
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,392 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    ^^ I've read three Irish news articles including the IT on that awful incident and not one of them state that the Dublin man assumed the victim was transgender. Off his tits and I don't personally believe his excuse anyway.



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    #90
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120649697#Comment_120649697

    The IT article states he thought the woman was a man dressed as a woman and a predatory paedophile. 😶

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #91
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,392 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120650906#Comment_120650906

    Since when is that your definition of transgender? If there is any truth to his story it would be a classic case of drug induced paranoia i.e. he imagined someone to be in disguise in an attempt to fool him. It is well beyond a stretch to link what he said to either transgender people or the ongoing trans debates.



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