So "X" - nothing to see here. Elon's in control - Part XXX **Threadbans in OP**

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916255#Comment_119916255

Yes, because a failed game developer and a failed candidate says so.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916327#Comment_119916327

Attacking the messenger now? How about commenting on the data within rather than who said it. Tesla's stock price is having a bad time of it, Brianna Wu's relative success doesn't really come into it.

Cordell

Brianna Wu's relative success doesn't really come into it.

Yes you're right, or to anything else for that matter.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916257#Comment_119916257

I was more thinking about the professional teams of experts that he fired. They’re the people who know how to deal with this stuff safely.

It’s like a newbie walked into a house re wiring and said: “Hand over any live cables to me I’ll check them out.”.

Absolutely clueless.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916406#Comment_119916406

The market seems to disagree, given, ya know, the aforementioned Tesla share price. Who shared it is irrelevant. You wanna "talk" about Musk, but you don't want to talk about how his actions might have effects on his existing businesses? You wanna chastise the rest of us constantly as maniacs, but refuse to engage on the fallout of the Twitter buyout lest ... what? It makes Musk look bad? The markets disagree, there is relevancy, and I'm sure Musk would be aware of this as well.

Burty330

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916419#Comment_119916419

Well the crime has been committed so when is the lawsuit coming and by whom?

Well, if you look at what's been going on with relationships with advertisers - people just suddenly being left without contact, reports of old ad campaigns mysteriously restarting and all sorts of stuff, there is already technical chaos behind the scenes.

The fact that they can keep the site tweeting's not really the biggest issue. The revenue generation aspects of it are what could sink it.

Also, if something goes seriously wrong, that's when you'll see whether or not they have the technical support and infrastructure support people to keep it going. Systems like this can coast along for a considerable time between big issues.

Twitter already had a massive problem with moderation. Simply removing the moderators isn't going to solve that. It's likely to become a lot worse just based on the lack of resources it now has.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916446#Comment_119916446

Crimes don't end up with lawsuits

Crimes end up with prosecutions, convictions, jail.

If you can be more specific about what crimes you are talking about, I'll do my best to help you understand possible implications.

Burty330

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916491#Comment_119916491

In the corporate world, a crime, as in breaking the law, often leads to lawsuits.

You are under the impression Musk broke the law relating to child protection, so I'm wondering when will he be sued and by whom?

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916533#Comment_119916533

Musk himself didn't break the law in this instance , but by asking general twitter users to "send the bad stuff directly to him" he puts anyone that decides to do just that at risk of prosecution - The severity and likelihood of that prosecution will probably vary depending on where those users live , but the risk absolutely exists if they choose to follow his direction.

The problem with the existing process wasn't the "reporting" part , it was the "acting on the report" part.

The existing reporting process was working fine , all Musk needed to do was to tell his moderation and legal teams - "Remove 1st , ask for forgiveness later and I'll support you 100% if anyone tries to sue etc."

Instead he makes it all about him and puts regular users in legal peril for attempting to follow his request.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916533#Comment_119916533

It would be the people reporting child porn directly to musk that would be breaking the law. you dont seem to understand that

Christy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916533#Comment_119916533

I believe Musk is encouraging others to break the law and he has not AFAIK. I believe it is under the don't spread child abuse photos just because someone asked you to send them his way.

I am not saying Musk is a pedo but the system he proposes is liable to abuse by someone who is and I doubt Musk will be singlehandedly doing this job forever and we don't know the vetting the next guy will get.

There needs to be a proper traceable reporting system that can be reviewed to ensure that pictures don't get spread further by those who are meant to remove them. This is not satisfied by sending dodgy links to 1 person via dm.

Burty330

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916614#Comment_119916614

Who is going sue users for reporting child abuse?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916533#Comment_119916533

You seem confused between criminal and civil law. It doesn't matter what world you're in, corporate or otherwise. Criminal actions lead to criminal prosecutions, not lawsuits.

I didn't say that Musk broke the law. I said that his instruction telling people to send CSAM material to him is telling people to break the law. Sending CSAM material is against the law, regardless of intentions. One person was convicted in Ireland in recent years for forwarding CSAM material, though it was generally accepted that she had good intentions.

Musk could also be breaking the law, depending on what he does with such materials. And I guess that possibly, he could even face lawsuits from people who are convicted after following his instructions.

He's way out of his league here.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916648#Comment_119916648

Google has an entire division dedicated to this exact kind of scenario cos as one might imagine, Google can absorb an even larger amount of depraved material than Twitter will ever process - be it through just their Search Engine Spiders or the myriad of products now running under "Alphabet". IIRC from chatting with people working in Google fadó fadó, those working in that department have frequent mental health issues arising from moderating the kind of material we're talking about. So aside from a moderation team - you kinda need a therapy team as well.

The idea Twitter doesn't need a department to handle this, or that Musk might glibly just announce people do the work for him, is utterly insane. It's just plain hubristic nonsense and it's depressing that yet again the usual suspects twist and blather and will say anything except "hey, that's a stupid idea Elon Musk. Sit down and just run Twitter like a normal CEO". It's not even conjectural; it has been outlined countless times already why it's distinct and qualtifiable legal jeopardy being suggested, and screaming "think of the children you monsters!" adds nothing but emotive deflection.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916662#Comment_119916662

Ah the old "Who's going to know defence"

Whether or not someone gets reported/caught does not alter one iota of the fact that what Musk is asking people to do is against the law.

Equivocating around things like "It's done with the right intentions" or "Who would report someone for something like that"is utterly irrelevant.

It's illegal and he did not need to do it , it's as simple as that.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916662#Comment_119916662

people are not sued for committing criminal offences. surely you understand at least that much?

Burty330

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916714#Comment_119916714

I just asked a very simple and direct question and you failed to answer so it is complicated and unless you are an expert it's all guess work. You also keep saying old twitter had a better handle on the situation, that was proven to be false

https://mobile.twitter.com/EvaFoxU/status/1594541038999375874

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916777#Comment_119916777

The simple answer is that what Musk is requesting is illegal. Whether or not someone actually gets reported/charged/convicted for the offence doesn't make it any less illegal.

So no - It's not complicated at all.

As regards the previous Twitter process what I said was that the Reporting part worked fine and ensured that no one was breaking the law when they submitted a report on bad content.

Where it fell down was in what they chose to with those reports when they got them.

It would appear that the previous Legal team were overly cautious about being sued etc. so took a very long time to act on the reports, if at all.

So the "fix" to the issue wasn't to change the reporting process (which is what Musk has done) , it was to allow the moderators or admins to delete content in the 1st instance and then to worry about the "correctness" of the decision after the fact by giving them that authority and ensuring that the Corporate legal team would stand over the decisions and support them should it come to that.

I've been running online discussion fora as part of my actual day job for a very long time - All the way back to the days of UseNet groups and the CIX platform in the UK - Heading on for 30 years at this stage!!

I've always worked on the principal of "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission" when it comes to making decisions on whether to remove content or ban a user etc.

If Musk simply told his moderation/admin teams that he'd have solved the problem without complicating things like having thousands of messages in his personal DM's that he or one of his staff have to wade through.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916777#Comment_119916777

Handling of CSAM material IS complicated. It's not something any egotistical jackass can do legally.

Penn

It also poses the risk that the problematic posts are missed, because Musk is CEO of multiple companies and currently managing the takeover of Twitter an all the problems that has arisen from that. The idea that he's directing users to report the posts directly as responses to one of his own tweets means they likely won't be reported to the actual moderation team.

Elon should not be the one acting on the posts; f*cking use and direct the team that's there to do it through the system in place. Reporting them directly to Musk as a tweet reply is absolutely ludicrous and counterproductive, even ignoring the possible legal issues stemming from it.

AndrewJRenko

If only there was some process for investigating a company BEFORE making a binding offer to takeover, some kind of due diligence perhaps, to identify what skeletons are in the cupboard.

https://ohai.social/@CalistaMueller/109396629080145676

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916911#Comment_119916911

100% - It's why all those Info@ or Support@ email addresses and the like for large companies don't go into someones regular email box.

They actually all go to a managed system that logs them and creates a reference ID for each one and people then have access to a queue where they take ownership of them in FIFO order and service levels can be measured along with full traceability of all the interactions and who viewed them or updated them etc.

Sending them all to Elons DM's is a recipe for utter disaster.

Burty330

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916842#Comment_119916842

The simple premise of requesting indecent material being illegal isn't complicated. Stop gaslighting me. You've not made it clear what body the threat of lawsuit comes from. The only lawsuits related to this matter were filed against Twitter for NOT removing indecent content. With their excuse being

Back in 2020, an investigation by the Post Millennial revealed that the distribution of child pornography was happening in plain sight all over the website, with child sexual abuse materials being shared via coded hashtags, and even Twitter's own guidelines permitting “artistic representations” of child pornographic images. 

From my brief research , Twitter were not being held back by fear of a lawsuit. By their own admission they failed to act because :

"Twitter cannot accurately detect child sexual exploitation and non-consensual nudity at scale," the Red Team concluded in April 2022, according to documents obtained by the Verge. The team found that the company lacked tools to verify that creators and consumers of adult content were of legal age

The Verge's investigation found that Twitter executives were made aware 15 months earlier that they lacked adequate tools for detecting child sexual exploitation (CSE) and were implored to add more resources to fix it.

A report from 2021 says failure to tackle the problem was down to sheer incompetence;

The 2021 report found that the technology Twitter uses to identify and remove CSE is "by far one of the most fragile, inefficient, and under-supported tools we have on offer," one engineer quoted in the report said.

The technology Twitter deploys currently only recognizes "known" CSE images from a database, and cannot detect new instances of CSE in tweets or live video, the report found. "These gaps also put Twitter at legal and reputation risk," the group wrote in its report.

So pure guesswork as I said.

Burty330

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916858#Comment_119916858

A complicated issue , agreed.

"I know it when I see it."

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119917042#Comment_119917042

How many times would you like people to explain the difference between lawsuits and criminal prosecutions to you?

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119917042#Comment_119917042

There is no lawsuit , there is the possibility of arrest from the police force in the users jurisdiction.

You know all those reports in the newspaper about how someone was arrested for sharing child porn?

THAT is the risk that Musks process introduces for anyone that chooses to do as he asks.

Not being sued - Being arrested,charged, convicted and if in Ireland, sent to Arbour Hill for a few years.

Musk however might get sued in the future by those people in Arbour Hill or those like them in other countries on the basis that he told them to do it..

pjohnson

Why am I not surprised Musk diehards have no issue with DM'ing child abuse content around the place.

Defending the distribution of Child Abuse is vile, but to be expected when praising Lord Elon, who can do no wrong for his fans.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119917265#Comment_119917265

Would it not be an internal system of linking a tweet via a url. No one is sharing anything then it's a link to the system in place. As its already publicly available on a private platform.