So "X" - nothing to see here. Elon's in control - Part XXX

Pherekydes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121325903#Comment_121325903

Onto the rocks.

pixelburp

All hail Musk, is it? "Steering" is a bit of a reach given his time at the helm has, by his own admission, resulted in a collapse in the company's value, revenue and quality of experience. The Blue Tick sub has been a fiasco, while god knows where the challenge form the EU will end up. But sure, something something Woke, take that blue haired brigade.

brickster69

Elon tried to save a lot of lives, good for him.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1721188412781216102

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121328608#Comment_121328608

So his and your solution is still Ukraine surrendering to russia?

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121328608#Comment_121328608

How brave of Elon to suggest Ukraine cede autonomy to Russia and let the country he does business with bigger bully win. How stunning, how insightful, lest we forget the total of his suggestion for Peace At Any Cost.

Whatever moral arguments existed about Starlink's usage in the war, he's a petty man to fixate on it again. His donation did save lives - and yes, sometimes saving lives means using information to destroy or attack your enemy.

Alun

I see from another thread that Stephen Yaxley-Lennon aka Tommy Robinson and Katie Hopkins have both had their X/Twitter accounts reinstated.

Agent Coulson

It's only surviving on hate these days and hate brings in revenue sadly.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121329582#Comment_121329582

Disgusting. Fascists like them shouldn't even have a voice in our society.

pixelburp

I hadn't even known they were banned, albeit unsurprised they would have been given they are both ... well let's be polite and call them "unsavoury". Nasty, contrarian little warts on society might be a better descriptor.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121328711#Comment_121328711

I personally think Musk is a perfect example of modern society - a guy who is idolised or despised with no room for a middle ground from his fans or detractors.

The problem is that outside of the echo chambers and overly simplistic "with us or against us" positions of social media, the real world is more shades of grey.

In this case he has a point... Again simplistically "Russia bad, needs to be defeated and Putin brought to justice for war crimes" may be the default and indeed morally right position, but the reality is that Ukraine hasn't the ability to break what has become a bogged down stalemate, and its backers in NATO have no desire or intention to go "all in" to make it happen as they did in the Gulf war of 1990. It's not going to happen.

So that leaves then the options of surrender (unlikely and undesirable - not just for Ukraine, but its allies who would see it as inviting Putin to keep going), a long drawn out war of attrition (which Russia can ultimately sustain a lot longer), or a settlement agreement being reached (the most likely option - especially as attention/interest has once again shifted to the Middle East).

So given that, Musk is in fact correct that the sooner a settlement is reached, the better for the soldiers being committed to the front lines by both sides and their families, and the better for Ukraine and its subsequent recovery.

It may not be a perfect or ideal solution, but very little is. That's not unfair.. That's life and in this case, realpolitik.

Christy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330706#Comment_121330706

Will you once again be vouching for a settlement agreement when Russia rebuilds and invades again? After all if the west shows it will give up ground then why not push for more and more.

Appeasement and trying to avoid war cost lives against Hitler and will cost lives against Putin.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330773#Comment_121330773

America and its allies are not going to war over Ukraine. That's abundantly clear to anyone who's been watching the situation over the last 2 years.

They'll send equipment and money and advisors but there's no will to put boots on the ground to fight the Russians. That's the reality. Besides, the attention and coverage has moved on to the latest round between Israel and its neighbour.

The choice then, as I said, is to let the current situation drag on indefinitely (as it arguably has since 2014), or push for some sort of settlement between the two sides.

This isn't a movie or united coalition against evil. There is no perfect solution where the good guys win in the end. Ultimately a settlement will be reached. The only question is when, what shape it'll take, and how many lives will be lost (on both sides) before then.

But this isn't the thread for this discussion. My point was that Musk, love him or loathe him, is probably right on this one.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330706#Comment_121330706

That's all well and good, but when Musk's plan, like others of his ilk, boils down to Ukraine ceding yet more territory to Russia as a second round of appeasement I don't see why his thoughts should be given any sense of legitimacy or rationality.

This obviously isn't the thread to get into the nitty-gritty of how the war is or isn't going, but this goes beyond some sense of a topic being spoken of only in terms of its extremes - but a cynical riposte to a very wealthy man who feels he can pretend to subjectively opine on a situation he has no clout, authority or responsibility to do so. We all want peace and the killing to stop - frankly it goes wihout saying - but solutions that amount to giving the aggressor what they want is not a solution, and a bit to pat for those of us far from the frontlines. "realpolitik" is a little too glib by half for a situation as ugly and necessary as it has transpired to be. Hard to talk peace when one side routinely and aggressively assaults civilian infrastructure as a tactic; the historical parallels are pretty stark.

Ultimately, the only only people who can dictate when Ukraine is finished with fighting, is Ukraine. When the spirit or willingness goes from their fight, then we can intervene and help establish a peace. Everyone else should follow their lead and not dictate how much of their country they should surrender for the sake of Peace At Any Cost, or listen to the musings of a billionaire whose judgement of late can be called into question.

Everyone on this site, including myself, routinely flaps our digital lips about subjects on which we have little to know proper knowledge or experience - but it's galling that because Musk has an obscene amount of cash his thoughts should curry more weight, more influence no matter how unqualified he might be. You don't see Jeff Bezos give considered opinions on Israel - listening to Musk or his ilk dismiss Ukraine as something to just give away for "peace" is ... obnoxious.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330797#Comment_121330797

Appeasement is never the answer when dealing with bullies, history has taught us this time and again but somehow people like you and musk think "it will work this time". And if you think it will lead to less people dying due to less soldiers being on the front lines you like musk are living in a fantasy land. Russia is going to ethnically cleanse whatever they are allowed take, just look at the number of children they've been kidnapping. And then unless Ukraine is admitted to the EU and NATO asap they will just do it all over again.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330803#Comment_121330803

For what it's worth, I don't rate Musk as much more than a digital celebrity who got lucky with a few ventures, but who seems to have been elevated to godhood by some of his followers when his track record shows massive flaws - both personally and from a business acumen perspective.

You're right that his opinion should certainly carry no weight when it comes to the political side of the conflict, but we live in an era of social media celebrity where people like Musk DO influence things (it was the same with Bill Gates during Covid for example, and even at home we made household names out of civil servants). That's just the world we live in now.

You're also right that it's ultimately up to Ukraine to decide how long they will keep fighting this stalemate (because I can't see Russia withdrawing until they get some sort of settlement), but no country is an island these days politically and Ukraine has aspirations of EU membership and all the benefits that will come to it from that, has likewise aspirations for becoming part of NATO and with both of these things will come strings and conditions in the form of back channel "advice" and "suggestions" on ending the current conflict.

Given that neither Europe nor NATO have shown any willingness to send in the troops, that only leaves one option really.

It may not be the morally right decision, it'll be unsatisfying and lack justice for the people of Ukraine themselves, but that's politics unfortunately.

But anyway, not the thread for it as we've both said 😊

francois

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121329582#Comment_121329582

That will encourage the major advertisers back

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330183#Comment_121330183

Spoken like a true fascist...

I don't like either one of them. But if you can't see the inherent danger in one half of society deciding that certain members of the other half should not have the right to free speech (even if it is hateful or obnoxious speech) then you'll be in for a rude awakening someday if "the other half" become the majority and someone decides that you're not allowed to have a voice in society.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330863#Comment_121330863

Being banned from Twitter is not a free speech issue.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330863#Comment_121330863

Free speech has limits.

Christy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330797#Comment_121330797

You keep claiming that a settlement will settle it which is a massive assumption. The only way a true settlement is reached that is enforced by both sides is if the Russian military is broken. Other than that it will continue, in other countries if Russia is allowed to be successful in the Ukraine.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330863#Comment_121330863

A banning from Twitter is no more an issue of Free Speech than someone getting banned from Boards would be; it's all social media that has sundry Terms of Service and codes of conduct & trying to render it as anything except that is overegging the pudding. Hopkins and Robinson are performative scumbags and received bans from media outlets to match.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330828#Comment_121330828

Take a step back and take a breath there. As with so much of this social media nonsense nowadays, people get far too invested in trying to pidgeonhole people into "sides".

I'm not on Musk's "side" - as above I think he's just another celebrity best largely ignored for the most part - but even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Given that Ukraine's allies have shown no evidence of being willing to commit troops and engage in a full-out war with Russia, what would YOU suggest then? As I said, this isn't a movie with the Good Guys vs the Bad Guys and it won't be wrapped up neatly in the end.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330882#Comment_121330882

And that's well and good to say and I personally probably even agree with you (if ideals were possible) - BUT, it's not up to you and me (or Elon Musk) and Ukraine doesn't have the capacity to break the Russian military as you suggest, and its allies don't seem willing to join the fight in earnest, soooo... what then?

Should the current stalemate just continue indefinitely or until Russia pushes on a country of more interest to the US and NATO? Because that's where it is right now and meanwhile soldiers and families on both sides continue to lose.

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330864#Comment_121330864

I'm not talking about their twitter status. TomTom stated that they "shouldn't even have a voice in society".

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330879#Comment_121330879

Yes and those limits should be legal, ie directly encouraging or instructing breaking of the law.

Not simply "being a twat".

I believe that Robinson has probably passed that threshold at times and he should be dealt with for that. But the majority of both of their positions are simply extreme views on one side of society and a talent for being obnoxious.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330931#Comment_121330931

To be clear, do you think bans and infractions should be scrubbed from Boards? Cos we're talking about the same thing here; yes, on a lot of social media being a troll, twat abusive or what have you absolutely does get you banned from that service. Defamation, libel and so on are legal mechanisms that exist so it's not like we don't have limits to speech already - and lately attempts have been made to codify the concept of "Hate Speech", there is an attempt to match legal frameworks to the world we live in. But ultimately, privately run social media has Codes of Conduct that result in bans by those like Hopkins.

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330965#Comment_121330965

Yes, privately run social media companies can and will do what they want.

However my initial comment was not related to social media. It was responding to someone who said that Robinson/Hopkins should not be allowed a voice in society at all, not just on social media.

As for social media, boards etc, it is a difficult question. Being a twat can ruin the experience. Trolls and abusive arse holes are a plague and social media is their playground. I don't envy anyone trying to find the balance in what to ban from their platform or not but it is not healthy for society when those bans are based on personal and political preference or allegiance. Twitter had a very left leaning oversight. Everyone is complaining now that it has become a right wing cesspool. I don't entirely agree, it's just that when it was a left wing cesspool before and now everyone they banned comes back, of course it's going to seem like a right wing invasion.

What it definitely is though, is still a cesspool. The world would be a better place without Facebook and Twitter.

Quin_Dub

Musk has launched an AI ChatBot , and will be available only to subscribers to the "Premium Plus" level of Twitter - Which means almost no one.

They've called it "Grok" , a reference to the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy and it has a "sense of humour" apparently.

Basically , it will be an AI with the attitudes of a sarky 14 year old boy built in - Perfect...

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331046#Comment_121331046

Oh it's even worse than that. It's practically modelled after Musk himself.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1720660977786433810?s=20

Flaneur OBrien

I miss when the world was controlled by somewhat mature people.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331046#Comment_121331046

It’s modelled on the Hitchhiker’s Guide but the “grok” part comes from ‘Stranger in a Strange Land’ by Robert Heinlein.

Christy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330902#Comment_121330902

I am not talking about ideals. I am talking about facts. Taking a settlement will just allow Russia time to rearm instead of relying on aid from Iran and North Korea and continue the current situation even longer. And yes, no matter what settlements are reach soldiers and families on both sides will continue to suffer. As will civilians in the Ukraine from anywhere Russia takes or is given in a settlement right up until Putin is defeated.

Musk's suggestion is just a down the pub rambling you get from "your man" who thinks they could solve all issues in a sentence if given the chance. Unless he has a ready made settlement that both sides would agree to and would actually prevent Russia from invading again it can safely be said Musk is talking out of his rear trying to look smart.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331363#Comment_121331363

What I don't understand is why anyone wants to hear what some "Tech-bro Billionaire" has to say about Global Geopolitics anyway.

Whether that's Musk or anybody else - Being super-rich doesn't mean your opinions on stuff outside your direct area of knowledge have more validity than the musing of any other randomer on the street.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330890#Comment_121330890

I would suggest nothing, like others have posted this is up to Ukraine to decide for themselves and nobody else.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331067#Comment_121331067

I thought grok came from the Judge Dredd strip in 2000AD. maybe they nicked it from Heinlein.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330879#Comment_121330879

There are too many people who think that free speech means being allowed to say whatever you want without any consequences whatsoever, no matter how false or damaging what you're saying is.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331046#Comment_121331046

Ooh, how long before it calls someone a pedo.

briany

Did anyone watch Elon Musk's Twitter Takeover on PBS Frontline last month? One of the contributors mentioned that he seems to see himself as a kind of Tony Stark figure, although I'm not sure if Tony Stark were real would he be getting involved in petty Twitter arguments.

He has more money than some countries do, yet the one thing he wants most is to be truly popular and cool. While his kind of money would buy you a good facsimile of that, it'll never get you the genuine article.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333590#Comment_121333590

I think he could have had that if he didn’t say too much and only made the smartarse remark.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333590#Comment_121333590

He's more like Nana Stark.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333590#Comment_121333590

Musk proves that all the money in the world won't give you a likeable personality or maturity.

He's the really annoying unlikeable kid in class that just can't understand why he isn't popular.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333590#Comment_121333590

More to the point, Tony Stark's entire "thing" is he went through a sequence of emotional growths, starting as a glib àsshole and evolving into a rounded, human and empathetic character. Musk seems stuck on the 1st act of Iron Man 1.

Not only is he an infantile idiot as @Quin_Dub alludes to, he's one of those annoying nerds who has missed the point and thrust entirely of his fictional heroes.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333590#Comment_121333590

Funny thing is, looking back at him early 2010s and he seemed cool to me. Was pushing forward electric cars and space travel. Then fast forward to him offering free frozen yoghurt and rollercoasters at work in an effort to get his staff to not unionize. Around the same time starting to calling the diver a paedophile. All his stupid ideas would largely be viewed as eccentric if he didn't express so many horrible views on top of it.

I do wonder how this will hit Tesla long term. It's made people a lot more critical of the brand. The distance they can go on a charge is great but then you look further into it and the built quality is pretty poor. And I'm in the market to go electric next year and absolutely won't be purchasing a Tesla and the owner is a factor in that decision.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333712#Comment_121333712

I'm not sure if people stop using a particular brand or product because the CEO is a knob. OK, maybe a small hardcore of people do, but the average person probably isn't bothered. But....like you say, if Tesla lacks in quality and Musk is too busy retweeting edgy memes from The Daily Wire, then it creates a situation for Tesla's market share to be ripped away.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333712#Comment_121333712

There seemed to be more respect/fawning adulation for tech people back then; Adam Nuemann, Elizabeth Holmes etc. A deflation of the tech bubble (Tesla is valued as a tech company) and the slipping of his mask is going to have a big impact on Tesla.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333746#Comment_121333746

I think it can make people a little bit more discerning though. Eg his attitude toward driving assist safety features etc. It just wouldn't make me confident in the brand.

For Forks Sake

Welcome to Elmos "Town Square", where posts like this one advocating paedophilia are boosted for just $8 a month and viewed 32m times without sanction (it's been up over 36 hours) 🙄

https://twitter.com/RichardHanania/status/1720992936052306000?t=zVnfZIBsDPbuvIye3WQ8EA&s=19

pixelburp

The Blue Ticks fiasco has turned a once vaguely reputable concept into a sewer. I do wonder has it even been a decent revenue stream for Twitter at least;, has it been worth the reputation damage and loss of advertisers caused by the Ticks dragging the service's quality of experience downwards.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333882#Comment_121333882

I'm not sure how that tweet is advocating pedophilia when it's including options to either approve or disapprove of the situation being described. If other users click 'yes', that's more on them. Actually, if a lot of people say yes, it would uncover a disturbing societal attitude that needs righting, so it would actually have been a useful tweet.

Flaneur OBrien

While I doubt I’ll ever have the money to buy a Tesla, if I did, I wouldn’t. I think if you buy something like that, you would be seen to give a tacit thumbs up to the owners very public views. And my view is he’s an immature buffoon, so why would I want to enrich him further?