So "X" - nothing to see here. Elon's in control - Part XXX

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119316227#Comment_119316227

Do you think a super-smart business guy should have made sure he got proper access to the data he needed BEFORE making an offer, not after?

It was over-valued BY HIM.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119316055#Comment_119316055

That's true when buying your penny sweets in the shop. It gets a little bit more complicated when there are legally binding contracts signed and agreed to by both parties which includes particular clauses resulting in money owed under certain conditions.

And considering the clauses in the contract relate to billions of dollars, I'm sure it's going to take a lot more than Elon claiming "When you agree to buy something you don't owe any money right away. You owe money only after the other party has delivered that something to you. At this point in this deal neither party hasn't delivered anything yet so I don't owe anything."

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119316423#Comment_119316423

He can probably still afford it, but it would have a big impact on stock and shares of his other companies, could possibly trigger loans and agreements regarding those companies, and I think I read that the downward spiral of Bitcoin, Binance etc could also have impacted Elon's financing a bit.

It would be wonderful to see Mr. Self-Aggrandisement have to complete the deal.

A big willy-waving escapade, during which his only goal was to hoodwink conservatives and 'own the libs'.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119316477#Comment_119316477

Tesla, by his own admission is losing billions, due to supply chain and other issues and the share price is way down on the last year. It's definitely not the same collateral as it was.

Royale with Cheese

Elon Musk is such a massive fúcking bellend. Absolutely can't stand him. Would be delighted to see him forced to go through with this deal.

That's all I wanted to say.

pixelburp

I used to think quite highly of Musk, seeming a canny, forward thinking entrepreneur with his eye on tomorrow. Shows what I know, or indeed, Musk. Maybe if he had have kept his mouth shut I'd still respect the man; perhaps stayed off Twitter, ironically, the world might have still thought highly of him. Social Media seems to overinflate people's belief in the value of their own opinions. While this entire venture, alongside things like his inane Las Vegas car tunnel, calls into question his actual business acumen

SpaceX's reusable rockets are still pretty neat.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119316459#Comment_119316459

Maybe he is under a contractual obligation to complete the deal, or maybe he isn't, but he doesn't owe anything and neither Twitter and its shareholders. Saying that he does implies that he got the shares / ownership and now he refuses to pay, which is not true. But we're splitting hairs, so I'll stop.

Quite strange amount of hate for the most successful African ever though.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119319694#Comment_119319694

He is under a contractual obligation to complete the deal, because that's what the deal was. You're arguing that he hasn't received the shares therefore he doesn't owe any money. That's a ridiculously simplistic argument. We're talking about billions of dollars. The shares aren't just handed over and then you transfer the money.

https://www.businessinsider.com/twitter-to-take-elon-musk-court-fight-close-deal-2022-7?r=US&IR=T

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119319694#Comment_119319694

Quite strange amount of hate for the most successful African ever though.

That’s a poor attempt 😁

Musk isn’t hated because he grew up in a wealthy white family in South Africa, moved to Canada and claimed Canadian citizenship through his Canadian born mother because it would be easier to enter into the US where he became a citizen of the United States…

People just don’t like the way he goes on for a whole variety of reasons, not least the fact that while he is unquestionably financially successful, he’s just not the brilliant engineer or entrepreneur other people make him out to be. The world’s most successful troll after Trump, would be a more apt description if you were interested in quantifying his success. The most successful South African IMO is Nelson Mandela, under who’s leadership apartheid ended in South Africa and he introduced democracy, something Musk talks about, but doesn’t know the meaning of the word.

It’s a good thing for Africans that while Musk was successful in trolling American investors, he was unsuccessful in convincing anyone who isn’t a complete dullard, that he actually gave a damn about the right to freedom of speech or freedom of expression that didn’t conform to his own ideas -

https://www.justsecurity.org/81357/what-elon-musk-does-not-get-about-twitter-and-democracy-in-africa/

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119319694#Comment_119319694

What Musk owes is ultimately up to the courts but the working reality is down here in the economic trenches, a handshake sale was agreed along with a price. Twitter are entitled to chase that price both parties agreed; that Musk offered over the odds with liquidity it looks like he didn't have isn't Twitter's problem. When it comes to corporations, tire kicking isn't easily ignored or walked away from. Blather about bots is a thin excuse.

Musk is a spoofer high on his own supply; the chatter over liberal tears a smokescreen to the simple reality of an "eccentric" billionaire who seems to think he can behave like a crazy person without consequence. His actions have been increasingly erratic, this Twitter acquisition the latest and largest.

The African line is a weird flex. He could be from Antarctica for all it matters, and his being a Canadian citizen since 17 muddies the waters from that kind of weird reduction.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119313035#Comment_119313035

At the very least he owes Twitter $1Bn in a break fee if he decides to walk away. That was the deal he agreed to

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315742#Comment_119315742

No - Musk explicitly decided to NOT carry out due diligence which is what any other deal of this size does.

That is where conversations about Bots etc. are supposed to happen and would have given him the opportunity to walk away.

Because of him being arrogant and rushing into the deal acting all Billy Big Balls , Musk has legally crippled himself.

As a result , there are only two outcomes here.

Musk walks away and pays the break fee, or he pays the full price like he agreed.

He won't get a discount and he won't walk away without paying.

And , it's all entirely self-inflicted.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320130#Comment_119320130

It wasn't just a handshake deal.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119319694#Comment_119319694

Hmm, you might want to learn a bit about contract law… it does not work like that.

I very much doubt he ever intended to actually buy Twitter, it was one of his attention seeking larks that got out of hand and the bots nonsense is an attempt to get out of it. The problem with billion dollar valuations is that it’s very hard to turn them into actual cash and this is Twitter’s opportunity to do so. Don’t expect them to walk away easily and depending on the courts we may get to know the true value of these companies - the amount of cash people are actually willing to hand over.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320513#Comment_119320513

Agreed. Things like Twitter are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them. Musk didn't just make an offer out of nowhere. He increasingly bought more and more shares in the company to give himself better leverage, then made several offers to buy the whole company outright. He very publicly stated that his last offer was his best and final offer, and the rest of the shareholders agreed to sell. A contract was then agreed and signed by both parties.

Musk is now trying to get out of that contract. If he had concerns about bots etc, he should have raised that during negotiations for the deal, however he neglected to do that due diligence. He agreed to and signed the contract, so he has agreed to buy Twitter as it is for the agreed price.

I believe the 1bn termination fee is no longer really relevant as that seems to have been related to if there was a significant reason why Musk could not fulfill the deal (eg. Provable issue regarding funding the deal). However by publicly making I about the level of bots on the site, unless he can prove Twitter was knowingly and purposefully lying in all their previous submissions (whereas it seems their reporting tends to be based on regular, random, small samples), changing his mind due to the level of bots is not a reason for Musk to terminate the deal under the contract.

He agreed to and signed a contract without doing due diligence and without including adequate provisions to allow him to back out of the deal. Rather, Twitter made sure to include provisions to make sure Musk completes the deal. He seems pretty screwed.

All because he wanted to be Johnny Bigballs and flash his cash about trying to buy Twitter for ego/publicity.

Mike Murdock

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1546344529460174849?s=21&t=7M0FWu7WR4MmRzak6w1Clw

From the man himself.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119316756#Comment_119316756

He is a bellend and I also would like to see him brought down a peg or two. But he has contributed to our world in a way that very few people have. Tesla, Starlink and SpaceX are simply remarkable technological achievements (I would not have the lifestyle that I have right now without Starlink)

He can blather and blowhard all he wants on there but a large number extremely dry lawyers & legal types are going to get rich out of his shitshow.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320951#Comment_119320951

a smart person would have asked for the bot info before agreeing to spend 44Bn.

Boggles

Jesus, he is making an absolute holy show of himself.

Mike Murdock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119321027#Comment_119321027

He alleges he did and Twitter refused to furnish him with it.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119321056#Comment_119321056

and yet he still made a binding offer? pull the other one.

Royale with Cheese

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320992#Comment_119320992

I own one of his cars and I'm quite fond of it, can't stand the man himself though.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320992#Comment_119320992

SpaceX revolutionised space travel, Tesla a market leader normalising electric cars - but in many respects this is the problem. Musk strikes as someone who thought a couple of innovations meant every brainfart was a winner, every idea of quantitative value. The Vegas car tunnel is such hubris, a collosal waste of money and has no practical application for what it is - and makes me suspect Tesla and SpaceX were flukes. The solar powered roof tiles were a neat idea mind you, must see where they went.

While his "no fúcks given" attitude makes him obnoxious rather than charming (though no doubt appealing to some). We could all be full of swagger with his wealth and clout.

Like many in his class he presents as having poor impulse control, to the extent he picked a fight with the director of the World Food Programme after another boast. And in a move very similar to the Twitter farce, has failed to pony up the $6 billion promised, with the convenience that the WFP didn't supply the data he dared them to supply. As said, he's a spoofer.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/un-official-still-hopes-musk-will-step-up-fight-world-hunger-2022-05-23/

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320951#Comment_119320951

So his justification for signing the Twitter deal, buying billions worth of shares, leveraging parts of his existing companies to fund it, and likely having to pay billions in damages if it goes to court is... Twitter might have to release more info on the number of bot accounts?

I'd actually have more respect for him if he just said "I did it for sh*ts and giggles".

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119321322#Comment_119321322

I think when you add in Starlink and, as you said, the solar powered roof tiles, they can’t be described as flukes. But, yes, his arrogance now knows no bounds. What did it for me was the farce with him trying to get his submarine used in the rescue of those kids from the cave in Thailand, and then trying to ruin the guy, the absolute hero, who actually rescued them.

What he’s done to date has progressed such that they’re now established businesses that can run without him. It’s difficult to see him coming up with much more of practical use given that he now seems to live in, and spoof from, a parallel universe

Potatoeman

This will drag on for years in court. He can probably buy shares below the offer price in batches and technical close the deal. Not a good luck for anything else he wants to buy. You can’t claim a grandiose gesture as a proponent of free speech and turn about and say ‘lolz, to the moon’.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119321056#Comment_119321056

He might have , but he asked for it AFTER he agreed to the deal and AFTER he declined to run everything through due diligence.

Whether or not he feels they haven't answered his question fully , from a legal standpoint doesn't matter one bit.

He agreed a deal and a price without any caveats (i.e. no due diligence) so he is locked into those terms.

Which are - A $1Bn break fee if he wants to walk away or he hands over the full boat and then owns Twitter.

Everything else is just him showboating and whining.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119321850#Comment_119321850

From what I understand the 1bn break fee might not be applicable because Musk can complete the deal, he's just choosing not to. So he could be liable for the difference between current share value and what he was going to pay (which amounts to approx 16bn), or strike a deal with Twitter for less than that in arbitration (likely at least 5bn).

All to prove Twitter has bot accounts. Something everyone already knew, and the majority didn't care about.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119321927#Comment_119321927

The Bots thing is a canard.

I remain convinced that this started out as another Pump & Dump exercise then a bit of arrogance and hubris kicked in and he went for it, not seeing the collapse in tech stocks coming which hit him hard on both sides of the deal in terms of his available cash and the market value of Twitter.

Having eschewed all the normal elements of a deal of this nature he left himself with no easy out so he ramped up the whining about Bots , which like you said every dog in the street has aware of for as long as Twitter has been a thing.

He's looking for a way out of a corner that he painted himself into and I really don't think that the courts (especially in Delaware) are going to give him an easy exit.

It's going to cost him money and not just the lost stock value since he bought into Twitter.

Ush1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119317372#Comment_119317372

His companies were never particularly profitable, at least when he ran them. He's good for share price but not much else. Buffett steering well clear speaks volumes.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119322237#Comment_119322237

I think Musks skill is in delivering "proof of concept" type stuff and creating/pushing a market forward.

With Tesla he pushed the envelope really out there for Electric cars , he proved that you could make a desirable car that people would buy and use.

In doing so he forced the big car manufacturers to accelerate their efforts , now though he is finding that Tesla just cannot compete with the speed and efficiency of the Big guns when it comes to developing and building cars. Life is going to get hard and harder for Tesla.

He ability to do all the other stuff has been driven by the crazy valuation of Tesla - The idea that Tesla was the most valuable company in the world or that it was going to outlast/outsell the VW's and GM's of this world is now being seen for the nonsense that has always been and that will be reflected in the Stock price in a very very big way.

That more than anything is a big part of why Musk doesn't want to have to spend ~$40B on Twitter.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320992#Comment_119320992

None of these are his achievements.

He founded SpaceX, not Tesla and not Paypal

Elon Musk is NOT technical. I know people that worked in PayPal when he was there.

Mr Musk's modus operandi is to find a company, buy his way in, push out the board.

He's an out and out business man, which raises the question about Starlink... how the hell is this gonna make money given that majority of the worlds democratic population has access to faster and cheaper internet via fibre or cell towers

When you understand who the main customer is, you'll understand that starlink probably wasn't his idea either, rather a business opportunity presented to him.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119322302#Comment_119322302

I can't believe the rest of the world has not cottoned on to his methods and also become the world richest gazillionaires..it's so easy!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119322413#Comment_119322413

Commercialising things, bringing them to market, getting them into the public consciousness, marketing them, is as important as the technology development

again, not defending him. He is a ****. But dismissing him as a fluke who’s done nothing other than buy some shares here and there is too dismissive of what he has achieved

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119322413#Comment_119322413

You need money to make money

The Musk family owned mines in Africa (I don't think they own them anymore though)

Let be frank though, white people residing in apartheid SA and owning mines on the continent, doesn't sound good at all really.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119322458#Comment_119322458

He's not a fluke, he had a lot of money behind him when he started out. (Same as Jeff Bezos)

He's also very shrewd business man like (Jobs and Zuckerberg)

People like him are usually quite successful in the business world as they are some how able to remove all emotion from their business activities.

Thinkingaboutit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118928821#Comment_118928821

It encourages and fosters a culture of offence taking and outrage mongering. Toxic isn't strong enough. Faecesbook is okay in comparison, though it is a sort of doxxing system for its robot founder of Meta.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119322458#Comment_119322458

Absolutely - He's a Marketing/Sales guy and an exceptionally good one at that - He's not a tech genius/guru though, he's not an "operations" guy either.

I mean look at the Cyber Truck as an example - He does an amazing job of hyping that thing and they get a huge number of pre-orders and all the hype that goes with that. But we are still waiting for it and will be for another good while it seems.

In the meantime , Ford have developed, built and launched their Electric Pick-up Truck and have stolen his thunder and probably lots of people are cancelling their Cyber Truck orders.

The car manufacturers are going to just swamp Tesla over the next year or two - For every Tesla Model (real or planned) there are now a half a dozen plus competing models from the Big players all available to buy right now , cheaper and with better build quality and reliability.

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119322466#Comment_119322466

You know there are concentration camps in China? I’m waiting in bated breath on the boycott.

Remember free Tibet? That disappeared when business and Hollywood thought they could make money there. What about Apples outsourced factories where employees regularly jump from the building, going to give up the iPhone?

Amazing how morality is subjective on what the current climate see as acceptable. Was Elon screaming and lashing people with a whip too?

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119322505#Comment_119322505

Aye thats why Bezos and Musk are successful, the money they had behind them 😂

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119322570#Comment_119322570

While it's not at all accurate to say that they were only successful because their parents had money there is absolutely categorically no question that the safety net (and cash) provided by their wealthy families played a significant role in them being able to get started.

Far easier to "have a go" at a business when you know that you'll always have a roof over your head and you have someone who can bail you out if it goes wrong.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119322610#Comment_119322610

Ah right, so their secret sauce was that they were upper middle class.

So much copage.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119322911#Comment_119322911

Hard to name a "founder" that wasn't.... - Bil Gates , Micheal Dell , Brin and Page , Zuckerberg - everyone of them from comfortable backgrounds where dropping out of (their very expensive) college and trying to get their business going was an easier decision than if your college was funded by Student loans and you had no savings to feed yourself while you wait for your business to kick off.

Don't get me wrong , there are thousands of people that have the same kinds of "safety net" available to them that end up doing feck all and just spend all their Parents money, so all those people above had to have the ideas , the drive and ability to leverage the opportunity that their environment afforded them.

If I have an amazing idea for a business , the decision to jack in my job and give it a shot is made considerably easier if the worries about Rent/Food etc. are off the table.

Equally , if I go to the bank/investor with my idea I'm far more likely to get funding for my idea if I am back-stopped by family money.

That's not "copage" it's simple reality.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119322942#Comment_119322942

100%!

Bezos parents gave him $250,000 to start up Amazon from from Garage....

And like you said, if you have something cushy to fall back on, then the risks aren't that really that risky at all.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119322942#Comment_119322942

Thousands? Try hundreds of millions.

The reason that people like Gates or Musk become multibillionaires is not mummy and daddys money, otherwise all their siblings would be billionaires. It's as pointless as saying that they're only billionaires because they're smart. The world is full of smart people. All this is a massive cope to try and dismiss their success as being primarily a result of their own efforts.

Cordell

None of those saying that if they were to be rich to begin with won't be able to have the same success as Musk and Gates and Bezos, but whatever makes them feel better I suppose. It takes more than money, it takes vision and leadership and discipline and hard work to achieve what they achieved, qualities that are almost guaranteed to not be bestowed on those bickering on the internets.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119327317#Comment_119327317

'cos Elon Musk would never be caught bickering and picking fights on the internet? Uhmmmm ...

As within anything else in life, money opens doors - and keeps them open; especially useful when trying to make a career. No doubt, there are plenty of "self made" millionaires out there as well; but I daresay even if you asked a silent success like ... I dunno, Eddie Stobart, if he'd have taken $250k to start his logistics empire, he'd have said yes please (gonna turn out Stobart was middle-class, ain't it)

Cordell

Well it's different when someone like him is doing it, he earned his right.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119327395#Comment_119327395

He earned the right to try and destroy a cave diver's reputation? No. Elon Musk is an adult human being like (presumably) the rest of us; success doesn't "earn" the right to be a piece of shít. If wealth and success confers some kind of automatic superiority on a person, then if anything, he should be the best of us.