So "X" - nothing to see here. Elon's in control - Part XXX

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121916714#Comment_121916714

Tough immigration laws - but not for wealthy South Africans

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121914758#Comment_121914758

Nice try but my eagle eye told me that the clip you linked to @Kevrano was not as I remembered as I watched the whole thing after seeing Edward Snowdon's comment on it on X.

https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1769817164205203713

This is the full interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhsfjBpKiTw (relevant section 30:03 - Content Moderation) where you will see the actual context in which Musk says 'I don't have to answer questions from reporters'.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121915818#Comment_121915818

So he didn't fall apart there, he was being bullish if anything. I take it you didn't watch the interview in full and were simply taken in by The Daily Show, right?

And another correction, what Musk actually said was "Moderation is a propaganda word for Censorship". He didn't say moderation was 'akin' to censorship. Meaning when people say moderation they really mean censorship, not moderation.

I would have thought with the amount of time some people put into this thread they'd have the patience to watch a one hour interview, but instead prefer to comment on snippets of misinformation.

hoodie6029

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121918743#Comment_121918743

And Germans - don’t forget Peter Thiel!

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121917153#Comment_121917153

Why is it that people of a certain political persuasion balk at tough interview questions of their political and cultural heroes? It's an interviewers job to ask questions of their interviewee, and those questions can be tough at times depending on what the interviewee has embroiled themselves in or what they are currently doing.

You see it time and time again, where a certain type is interviewed and the usual whingers come out out and claim that the interviewer is "biased" or it's a "hatchet job", crying because so-and-so wasn't given an easy ride.

God be with the days of the likes of Paxman, who was never afraid to "go there" and ask questions of these folk, and keep bloody well asking the question until it was answered or the interviewee made a fool of themselves trying to evade the obvious.

Frankly, we need more tough questioning of people like Musk and others, lest all we end up with is mere propaganda pieces.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121919880#Comment_121919880

Because fundamentally their "viewpoint" or "political agenda" can basically be reduced to "I want to be allowed to do/say what I want so f*ck all of you".

It's kinda hard to put forth a cogent defence of that position and not come across as exactly what you are - A self involved , ignorant arsehole.

So they bail out claiming that it's a "witch-hunt" or a "hatchet-job" etc.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121921195#Comment_121921195

Indeed it all boils down to wanting freedom from the consequences of their speech. They view questioning or analysing the despicable things they say as a consequence and that shouldn't be allowed.

hoodie6029

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121921195#Comment_121921195

This is it exactly. The ‘you can’t say anything anymore’ brigade just want to say whatever they want, without having to listen to a response or challenge.

Debating training means that they won’t give an inch in discussions (on either side). No time to dwell on a thought and come back to the point a few days later.

fullstop

The bots have now diverted attention to “I sympathize with Russia” posts all over Twitter, posted in every case by accounts created March 2024 with no followers but quote tweeted hundreds of times.

eightieschewbaccy

It's a little bit telling when you see which posters are having the urge to leap to Elon's defence no matter what. 😂

hoodie6029

Listening to a podcast recently and Jon Ronson was on it. He said the only benefit Musk has created by buying twitter is that he scattered the Left to Threads, Mastodon etc. so that the ability to ‘Cancel’ people for the smallest infraction or ‘wrong’ opinion has ended. He didn’t think another platform would have that power again.

magicbastarder

i recently visited twitter for the first time in several weeks. there are a couple of accounts i follow still posting there, but my feed is a shadow of what it used to be.

Vote4Squirrels

I reported three posts in the last week for the vilest abuse - two misogynistic and one antisemitic.

All involved violent language. None were found to have contravened their "community standards". They need new standards.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936897#Comment_121936897

Unfortunately that's things working as expected: to parrot @Quin_Dub 's own comment the fundamental thesis of Musk and his supporters boil down to

... their "viewpoint" or "political agenda" can basically be reduced to "I want to be allowed to do/say what I want so f*ck all of you".

The "free speech" waffle is just a mask to allow them to be bigoted ássholes without having to deal with pesky things like consequence or reaction.

Agent Coulson

Musk is not hiding his ideologies on X now he is openly promoting hate.

He is showing his true self and it is no surprise really he would fit in well with the Lethal Weapon 2 bad guys

hoodie6029

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121937168#Comment_121937168

Exactly this. Like protesters here, screaming ‘peaceful protest! Peaceful protest!’ 6 inches from somebody’s face doesn’t make it a peaceful protest.

Musk can say that he is in favour of free speech but his actions say otherwise. Like that Cork journalist banned for writing an article critical of Twitter.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936897#Comment_121936897

The below says it all really

AndrewJRenko

Shocker

https://twitter.com/esqueer_/status/1772266794377478351?s=46&t=3l1OhjvjsuAh4w9RMjlH8g

Agent Coulson

😂😂

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1773498506503704754

His stan accounts then attack her.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121952650#Comment_121952650

The way grown men are so triggered and scared of Ocasio-Cortez would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121953135#Comment_121953135

The whole "You're only a Bartender" thing is one I simply cannot understand.

She worked as a bartender to help fund her time in college , doing that job and ones like it I assume is fairly standard for every College Student that isn't a scholarship athlete or Trust-fund baby.

Why that somehow means that her double honours degree from a top US college is somehow less valuable than the one that daddy bought for most of the GOP mouthpieces is beyond me.

As others have said , she is an almost perfect example of the American dream - regular person works hard , pays their way through college and is now a member of congress.

I don't get it..

Gentlemanne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121953379#Comment_121953379

conservatives don't care about the working class and don't see their jobs as useful. If AOC was a more decent person she would have been born to wealthy and connected parents who fast track her with nepotism into her political position - that's more natural and normal to your average rightwinger.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121953379#Comment_121953379

She's :

• A woman
• Young
• Intelligent & eloquent
• A person of colour
• Espouses Progressive Politics
• Not afraid of making her voice heard

There's something about that mix that lights a fuse under a certain kind of man.

See also: Greta Thunberg

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121953727#Comment_121953727

Bingo, though the reaction to Thunberg is especially pathetic given she was, at the outset of her public career, a child. Grown men getting irrationally incensed at a child's unfiltered anger at our declining climate remains a ludicrous sight.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121953379#Comment_121953379

The "American Dream" is a myth peddled by the class and ethnicity of people that hadn't meant it to include the likes of Ocasio-Cortez. As far as these folk are concerned, she is only ever meant to be a bartender.

AlmightyCushion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121953727#Comment_121953727

It isn't really any of that (well apart from the progressive politics), it is just classic double standards. If she was a republican they would constantly be talking her up for lifting herself up by her bootstraps. Same with Greta Thunberg. If Greta drove a hummer and was famous for being pro-life and pro guns they would love her. They don't really care who you are or what you are once you are on the right side of the fence. If Trump was a democrat, they would be calling him an unhinged lunatic

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121917614#Comment_121917614

I've never seen any definition of "free speech" that includes doxxing.

Calling someone a Neo-Nazi and simultaneously doxxing them is likely an (indirect) attempt to expose them to physical violence.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121953727#Comment_121953727

She's also very beautiful.

Nonetheless the "progressive politics" accounts for 99.9% of why people aligned to conservative politics don't like her, and if she were conservative they would love her.

That's just how politics go.

Just like you and all the people who thanked your post have zero nice things to say about Condoleezza Rice, Sarah Palin etc., etc.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121955920#Comment_121955920

I have loads of time for Condoleezza Rice tbh. Imagine most posters do. Highly accomplished and intelligent individual. Also very much so predates culture wars nonsense. Honestly, she'd be a pretty credible candidate for president. Sarah Palin is more at Donald's level. Imagine most posters would have time for Rice tbh.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121955863#Comment_121955863

And yet when non-Nazi activists are doxxed on Twitter, as has been happening for years, no action is taken.

What's your definition of 'free speech absolutist' btw?

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121955920#Comment_121955920

You cannot compare Rice and Palin as being on the same ideological bracket so spare the Both Sides style interrogation. Rice would remain widely well regarded despite her neocon leanings, and her sober abilities would be a tonic in conservative politics these days. Palin was and remains a joke candidate and figure, she should be righly disregarded.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121955966#Comment_121955966

Interrogation😂😂

The point is party-politics is to a large extent a matter of allegiances. Knowing this, and acknowledging this, undercuts claims of liberal victimology ('They only dislike [x] because she/he is a woman/black/homosexual')

I find it dishonest, unconvincing and a form of hackery. Doubly bad because you're talking about politicians in a foreign country - and absorbing these political conflicts entirely through a curated media lens, bringing no local knowledge to the discussion.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121955946#Comment_121955946

I don't consider doxxing 'speech'.

What do you think?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956043#Comment_121956043

The question wasn't about speech, it was about free speech absolutism.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956005#Comment_121956005

But you've already had more than one poster say they have plenty of time for Rice. The current generation of GOP politicians are extreme be they male or female. The few remaining more moderate politicians, people have time for. Like I'm not a fan of Liz Cheney but I have time for her cause she's trying to fight the tide.

US policy impacts the globe so people are likely to have an opinion on their politicians. On top of that, plenty of us have pretty close familial ties with the US.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956050#Comment_121956050

Okay. I'd call a free speech absolutist someone who allows all political opinions without censorship.

But I wouldn't include direct incitement to violence or doxxing as 'opinions' or 'speech'

Now can you answer my question: is doxxing legitimate iyo?

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956089#Comment_121956089

Well okay I suppose I have to give you that.

But I don't think opposition to AOC is significantly spitefully-motivated. Anyone would love to have someone like her on their 'side', I think. But if they oppose her politics they end up opposing her by extension because the whole discourse is so personalised.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956005#Comment_121956005

Allow me then to 😂😂 in kind to your "liberal victimology".

The topic is Elon Musk, and in this instance how his stans decided to trash someone for pointing out his hypocrisy, using her status against her in an especially obnoxious flex given she's the fulfillment of the "American dream" conservatives should love.

"Party politics" only goes so far to wash away the hypocrisy TBH and this whole "plus ça change" argument about as anemic a position as the whole "OMG why you talking about something in a foreign country?" one.

If you prefer we can loop back to despairing at Elon Musk, the world's richest 8chan user.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956113#Comment_121956113

I see your 😂😂 and raise you a 🤣🤣🤣

I have never tried to defend Musk himself because he is so incoherent and all over the place with no consistency.

Also two other reasons: 1) he is very strongly anti-Christian by his own admission.

2) Billionaires stick together in terms of their power and financial interests despite that one will style themselves as 'progressive' and the other 'anti-progressive'. Bill Gates could have easily joined the Republican Party - he would hardly be a poor fit - and is a massive corporatist consolidating wealth and assets.

Musk himself was something of a darling of political liberals in the now-forgotten time when he never disagreed with anything they said, which he's abandoned pretty spectacularly in the years since.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956135#Comment_121956135

Musk himself was something of a darling of political liberals in the now-forgotten time when he never disagreed with anything they said, which he's abandoned pretty spectacularly in the years since.

Musk was admired by a great many people, including myself as I've said many times here. However, he opened his mouth and revealed himself to be every objectionable 'ist you could want to find. You might sniff at "policial liberals" jettisoning him, but it's hardly outrageous that they soured upon realising Musk was a bit of a shít. Bit disingenuous to frame it as an act of convenience than distaste for the man's beliefs.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956148#Comment_121956148

My point is that billionaires will shape-shift in terms of their stated political allegiances, yet Bill Gates, Elon Musk and other billionaires follow a common interest.

If Musk had remained on friendly terms with progressives and at the same time so-called 'progressive' billionaires like Bill Gates had instead joined the Republican Party and posed as 'conservative', their financial behaviour and interests would be (almost exactly) the same as they are now.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956092#Comment_121956092

Doxxing is either legitimate for all or legitimate for none.

For Musk, it seems that doxxing is only a problem when it comes to Nazis.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956160#Comment_121956160

If Musk had remained on friendly terms with progressives and at the same time so-called 'progressive' billionaires like Bill Gates had instead joined the Republican Party and posed as 'conservative', their financial behaviour and interests would be (almost exactly) the same as they are now.

If my granny has wheels etc. your point was initially trying to Gotcha people over Condoleezza Rice, and when that didn't work...

Again you're trying to frame this as some political calculation as opposed to the plainer truth that Musk's a bit of a cúnt whose Twitter echo chamber has accelerated this spotlight. Not really "Liberal victimology" when the guy keeps outing himself, his online fanboys clapping and dogpiling people when they point out his hypocrisies.

You're right in one aspect: had he not outed himself the likes of myself would have continued to admire Musk as the latter-day Tesla. More like Thomas Edison really; you can debate if that's meant as a compliment.

What are Bernard Arnault's politics? Who knows, who cares. Have you heard of the man without googling? No? Exactly. Like Trump, Elon Musk invites the pelting of tomatoes because he invites it through his own inability to filter.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956214#Comment_121956214

"Liberal victimology" is when someone says the 'real reason' they are facing criticism or political opposition of any kind is their race/sex/sexuality rather than genuine actual criticism or opposition.

It's desperate stuff because it means anyone no matter how wealthy, connected, provocative or partisan can go into victim mode at any time (or have others claim victimhood for them.)

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956269#Comment_121956269

Which is all obfuscating the fairly mundane foundation that Musk fans, dogpiling Ocasio-Cortez for sarcastically noting Musk's hypocrisy as an immigrant himself, decrying her as a mere bartender, is pretty transparently a case of the perpetually triggered.

Sometimes it ain't politics: sometimes it's just àssholes being àssholes.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121955930#Comment_121955930

Just because she predates the "culture war nonsense" doesn't mean she's any less of an undesirable character than the rest of the neocon trash that were in Bush's cabinet. She - along with Bush, Cheney, Rove, Rumsfeld and others - was very happy to spread lies about WMDs and Iraq's (non-existent) nuclear capabilities in the pursuit of Bush and his handlers war, and she continually ignored salient advice from military leaders about the folly of that war and the possible blowback that, as it turned out, actually occurred, leading to incredible destabilisation in the region, the creation/rise/proliferation of ISIS, and the spread of terrorism in other parts of the world, etc.

Frankly, I'm happy that someone like that is out of politics and I hope it stays that way.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956107#Comment_121956107

One rarely sees Cortez attacked on her politics though. The usual line that's trotted out is about attacking her background and not what she stands for, i.e. she's "just a bartender".

And, as has been pointed out, she's practically the embodiment of the "American Dream", which is what American conservatives (so called) are supposed to be all about. She was born in Bronx project housing and worked hard to get where she is today.

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959528#Comment_121959528

Wearing a dress that says tax the rich isn't working hard it's just cheap point scoring. She's not very bright either.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959835#Comment_121959835

She was at a ball. Who else was working that event? Bartenders?

Not very bright? How did she get where she is so?

pixelburp

As if to prove the original point? Attack Ocasio-Cortez, ignore the substance or context of why she even came up in the first place. Which was, ultimately, a glib bit of humour.

Instead? Triggered.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959835#Comment_121959835

I see so graduating with distinction with a degree in economics and international relations in your books makes her not very bright....

francois

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959835#Comment_121959835

More "newbie" drive by fluff. On to the ignore list