EuroPark profiting off hospitals?

macvin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118933469#Comment_118933469

Very rarely are sick people using the spaces. It mostly visitors.

Considering that the hospital care is mostly at no direct cost to the patient, a few euro for safe and secure parking is a small price.

Where free parking is provided it almost always sees extensive abuse and then you will have no parking spaces.

L1011

Debate here is getting personal and off-topic. Infractions have been given. Back on topic please, remembering this is not Commuting & Transport.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118934963#Comment_118934963

What % of people in a hospital are visitors?

What % are people going to appointments, what % are family providing transport. What % are staff.

Hospital care is no cost to the patient. Seriously.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118934859#Comment_118934859

I'm not sure why you object giving sick people privileges than some one using the car park who's not even using the hospital.

Or why you think only wealthy people have cars. It's not 1940. I'll bet people in this thread have bicycles that are more expensive than many peoples cars. By your logic they should remove bike racks so that rich people can't use them.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118934943#Comment_118934943

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118934963#Comment_118934963

I think some way of restricting access be it by a charge or patient validation is necessary to stop non hospital users parking.

For long term patients or visitors a discount system should be mandatory.

Anyone who has a car would surely use it to make a patient or visitors journey a little easier.

Flinty997

There's a recent piece on it here.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/state-run-hospitals-take-in-12m-a-year-from-car-parking-charges-1.4531372

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118934960#Comment_118934960

DaCor, I too use ignore lists but those comments are for the benefit of others not you. Some of them might be swayed by your argument that storage space should not be paid for by the public. Armed with this information, they can better judge the merits of your argument. It is only fair, is it not?

Hospital parking space should be priced at a level to dissuade abuse and no higher. Some Hospitals see it as a stream of revenue from a captive audience which is the friends and family of loved ones at a time of concern and worry for both the Patient and their visitors.

cbreeze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931733#Comment_118931733

Correct. If you haven't used up all the time you've paid for, you can give the ticket away so someone can avail of your kindness and not have to pay😌

macvin

Interesting that sinn fein are looking for free parking yet most hospitals in northern Ireland charge for parking. Surely they should lead by example and show it being done where they have the power to do so.

Seems many hospitals in the south have parking deals. Tallaght has a six entry ticket for use in a 3 month period for €25, so €4.25 per session. Others have similar deals.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118935623#Comment_118935623

Does SF talking out both sides of their collective mouths surprise anyone anymore lol

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118935125#Comment_118935125

I object to giving privileges only to better off sick people, and not including less well off sick people in equivalent privileges. I never said that 'only wealthy people have cars'. You'll fit about 10 parked bikes into one car parking space, so it's about 1/10th of the same issue. And yes, some people have bikes more expensive that some cars, but in general, those who have cars are better off than those who don't.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118934943#Comment_118934943

They do take steps to deter abuse, by applying a small charge.

I believe parking at hospitals should be priced at a level to dissuade abuse and motivate use of alternatives.

With that in mind there is scope for increasing the price at some locations, obviously up to a maximum amount for a stay e.g. 4 eur an hour, max 12 eur or something like that

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118935170#Comment_118935170

'No higher'? Do you not think the cost of providing and managing the service should be a factor in there somewhere?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118935942#Comment_118935942

Well its the same issue. There are people who can't afford bikes. So you shouldn't give privileges to people with bikes.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118936070#Comment_118936070

There's 400 bikes on Adverts for less than €50, some of them free. There's been a bunch of charities giving out free bikes to Ukrainian arrivals and others.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118936021#Comment_118936021

While in general I agree that pricing is a useful tool to motivate use of alternatives I don't think it is acceptable in the case of hospitals.

People are at their lowest when sick and if they have a car to use or can get a lift from a relative or neighbour they should not be dissuaded from doing so.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118936093#Comment_118936093

So if people get a car for less than the bike it's ok to offer parking but if the bike is more than a car it isn't.

How do you plan on policing that.

23 skidoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118935942#Comment_118935942

And when that charge is the same as other urban car parks where lies the deterrent?

If you still insist on charging patients why can’t that be administered with a system that only allows patients and visitors access the car park?

I’ll give you a hint. The people running the car parks don’t care about the patients, they care about €€€€€€

23 skidoo

Anyone acting as a clamper in a hospital car park is a vermin worse than rats.

jack of all

I had to attend my local hospital recently and was pleasantly surprised at how reasonable the cost of parking was; I could have walked there but was happy to have the convenience of using my car on the day.

I remember years ago ( 15 years or thereabouts) when parking at this hospital was free! I also remember how it was regularly used by commuters to park their cars as they car pooled and headed off to Dublin to work each day, taking up valuable spaces which might have been used by a visitor or patient otherwise. No one likes to pay for parking but without it and enforcement things would just get out of hand.

While it is a nice idea in principle to have free or subsidised parking for long term patients with serious health issues this would be open to abuse. During the water charges debacle more groups came out looking for special treatment or dispensation because of health issues, many genuine I'm sure but some of them less so. The current system of parking charges is far from ideal but I can't see anything else working. Quite apart from hospital car parks a lot of real estate is given over to cars and whether we like it or not that trend will be reversed in the future, we just cannot keep giving over valuable land and resources to private cars.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118936628#Comment_118936628

Because keeping spaces free for those who actually need them is ratty?

23 skidoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937335#Comment_118937335

No. Clamping someone whose ticket ran out because they got delayed in an appointment or had an extra unforeseen medical necessity is scum.

Again, answering only yes or no, do you support the idea of a barrier system coupled with validation to ensure ONLY patients and visitors are using the car park (with or without a charge)?

23 skidoo

@AndrewJRenko

Second question:

If motorists are expected to pay “a modest fee to store their private property“, should similar charges be levied upon people availing of secure bike parking?

If the answer to this question is no:

Should motorcyclists have to pay?

If the answer to this question is yes:

On what basis? If cyclists should be free because it’s efficient and requires little space, the same applies to motorbikes.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937404#Comment_118937404

Don't forget air balloons, and horse n carts, the discrimination against the pony n trap has to stop!

Flinty997

The fees are reasonable until you are doing it a lot. it's gets old real fast. Money for meters or some archaic payment system that only takes coins.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937404#Comment_118937404

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937395#Comment_118937395

Are we in Court here or what now, with your 'only yes or now questions'?

It's a bit of a silly premise. How do you validate that any driver is a patient or visitor? Do you think that medical staff have time to be validating parking for patients? Let alone visitors - would they have to present their bunch of grapes to get approved or what?

Any such system would be abused by greedy chancers.

Yet again, I have to ask, where does this apparent entitlement to free storage space come from? You don't get free fuel to travel to hospital or free insurance or free servicing or free tyres? What's all these foot-stomping temper tantrums about paying a small charge coming from him?

Clearly we've been spoiling motorists for a long, long time, and they're now acting like spoilt children who don't get their treat. Time for some tough love I think.

I've no problem with reasonable charges for cyclists or motorcyclists, proportional to the space used, assuming that the facility would actually be safe, and you've some reasonable degree of comfort that your bike will be there when you get out.

There is the question of what kinds of behaviour a medical facility should be incentivising. Should it be incentivising the mode of travel that reduces your cancer risk by half or the mode of travel that pollutes with toxic fumes and more?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937474#Comment_118937474

It's impossible to argue the case for fair use when it's obviously a blunt instrument to cash grab from people needing to access a hospital.

Hence the retreat to absurdity.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937544#Comment_118937544

Why should people not pay for storage space for their private property? Do you expect hospitals to provide a 'left luggage' service free of charge, to mind people's laptops and their shopping bags? Or is there something special about cars that create this entitlement to free storage space?

McCrack

Sad

McCrack

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937555#Comment_118937555

So no bicycle parking (storage) for free anywhere then. :)

If you think hospitals are overrun with people shopping, and shopping for laptops. That clearly shows hospitals do not value this space if they prioritise its use for activities unrelated to the hospital. Void any arguments its vital space for the hospital.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937594#Comment_118937594

So no bicycle parking (storage) for free anywhere then. :)

Hence the retreat to absurdity

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937619#Comment_118937619

That's hyperbole not absurdity.

Besides there is a precedent of paid bicycle parking "storage" at train stations for example.

Ger Roe

The issue of how much you are charged to park in a hospital is one to be debated, but my pet gripe is the hospitals that do not have controlled entry/exit gates that only charge you for the actual length of time you stay. In some hospitals you have to advance pay the machine and guess how long you are likely to be, even though the time you might spend there either for a scheduled appointment, or an emergency admission, is beyond your control.

They make a fortune from people over estimating their anticipated time, for fear of being clamped. That is a total disgrace... put a control system in place and charge for the actual time spent, not for an advance guesstimate of how long a stay might be.

Time recorded car park charging should be the only option allowed where you only pay for the time you actually take.

Nigel Fairservice

My mother was hospitalised for a few days before she passed away. You could only pay for the parking in coins. Trying to gather change every day was a hassle we could have done without. I don't have a problem paying for parking but at least make it easy for people eg. card readers at pay stations. I know CUH didn't have them up to at least 2019. I don’t know if the situation has changed since. Reduced rate parking at the hospital for people that would be spending a lot of time there didn't seem very well advertised either. Nobody told us about it at the time and I didn't see any notices in the hospital about its availability either. I only found out about it a year or two after.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937594#Comment_118937594

Who said anything about shopping for laptops? People may well have shopping with them, if they are doing their hospital visit after doing other business. They may well have a laptop with them if they are going to hospital before or after work? Surely people should have free storage for ALL their private property, not just cars, right?

Flinty997

That's the real issue with these car parks they aren't set up with any understanding how of they are used. They actually make the hospital experience much harder than it needs to be.

When you have systems that can be managed remotely and send you reminders and allow remote payments. There's no good reason not to use them. Especially as they are getting enough money from the car parks to run and control them properly.

23 skidoo

@AndrewJRenko

Validating a ticket takes seconds. Pop it into a machine. Push a button.

The ward nurse can validate for visitors.

The consultant you’re paying €200 to see can do it.

You could have your ticket validated by the car park staff on production of a receipt.

There’s a few ways

It's a bit of a silly premise. How do you validate that any driver is a patient or visitor? Do you think that medical staff have time to be validating parking for patients? Let alone visitors - would they have to present their bunch of grapes to get approved or what?

Flinty997

It could be automated of a patient number or appointment number and expire.

If it's generating millions. It has to possible to optimise the use of the resource.

The could invest some of it in secure paid cycling storage/parking.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938142#Comment_118938142

Are drivers prepared to pay the increased cost of these super-duper management systems?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938207#Comment_118938207

Why don't you go have a chat with the ward nurses and consultants about that? Please record the exchange, as I'd pay good money to see their response. Are you entirely tone deaf to what's happening in the health service?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938313#Comment_118938313

So we should redirect funds currently going into the hospital to provide additional medical services and supports into fancy control systems for drivers?

TheTruth89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938501#Comment_118938501

Why are you replying to urself ?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938113#Comment_118938113

You keep bringing up these absurd and vexatious arguments that have no basis in reality or logic.

It strongly suggests you've no experience or knowledge of the subject or where they are located. You haven't even bothered to research it.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938501#Comment_118938501

These systems are not unusual. Smart phones and apps are not new. The hospitals just don't use them. The drivers already pay for them and use them elsewhere. It's a good argument for making cyclists pay for any facilities they use though.

So which is it. Hospitals need the car parking space for hospital services. Or they need it for revenue generation. Can't have both.

Flinty997

Hospital Parking Bill

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2022-02-17/42/

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118939315#Comment_118939315

So if a hospital has €20k available in their capital budget, should they prioritise upgrading medical equipment, diagnosis perhaps, or upgraded parking equipment?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118939336#Comment_118939336

There’s a surprise, the party formed to control womens reproductive systems standing up for the entitlement of better off people.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118939608#Comment_118939608

"...every single day in 2017, €60,000 was collected through car parking fees in public hospitals.."

The parking income would allow them to spend that 20k, 3 times a day everyday.

You'd seem to prefer no cars but the hospital to be bankrupt. Bicycles bring in no income. Perhaps its time they should.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118939621#Comment_118939621

Did you read that link?

That's where this issue is heading and about time too.

Thankfully very few people see this matter through the narrow prism of "W** on Cars".

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118939898#Comment_118939898

You know that’s the total figure for ALL hospitals?

But tell me again how you expect that money to be spent on parking equipment rather than equipment that will actually improve people’s health.

But yeah, what did those bloody cyclists ever do to help the hospitals?

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-39641122

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118939946#Comment_118939946

You know that Aontu have one TD ?