Boyfriend moving in to home that I own - how to manage finances?

arabella21

I currently own my own home and rent out a room which covers roughly half of the mortgage. My current tenant is moving out and I will likely get someone else. I have 4 bedrooms. I am in a relationship that we both see as long term, we are both in our thirties, we have discussed buying together in the next year or two and I would sell my property then. I have asked him if he had thoughts on what our financial agreement would be and he said if I wasn’t to have a tenant he’d pay me half of everything but as half of my mortgage is being covered he’d pay half expenses, food etc. I understand that he would be contributing to my equity should he pay rent which is not necessarily fair and I don’t want to sour the relationship by monetizing it. He has a good financial attitude (savings, investing) and I get that money he is saving by not paying rent would go towards our own home. The relationship is not very old so it’s in the back of my mind what if it doesn’t work out for one reason or another. Am I being a bit foolish here with this arrangement?

Buddy Bubs

Half of everything would be my preferred option if I was moving in with someone as a couple.

Half mortgage, utilities, TV and broadband, food, upkeep.....

It's likely still not much more expensive than he would get renting elsewhere, even as a lodger.

covidcustomer

Money talk is always a difficult but what strikes me about your post is the fact that your b/f wants to live rent free.

"but as half of my mortgage is being covered he’d pay half expenses, food etc."

So you pay towards your mortgage, your lodger pays half your mortgage and your b/f gets a cracking deal where in this climate, he lives rent free???

Personally I think that's cheeky.

I also don't agree with this:

"I understand that he would be contributing to my equity should he pay rent"

No, he would be paying to live somewhere, in his current situation (renting I assume?) he's not contributing to his LL's equity, he's paying rent to live somewhere.

In your shoes I would get the new tenant as you have done before as this is a very wise move when your intention is to buy a home with him further down the line (and you have a 4 bed house) and this income will benefit you both in the long run.

Look at what your b/f pays in rent at the moment and charge a percentage of this (again, this will benefit you both down the line), if he pays 1000 charge him half and split the bills and I will tell you why.

Your mortgage repayment isn't the total cost that you bore when buying your own house, you had to save for a deposit, you had to furnish it, you pay insurance, property tax and all other costs associated with owning a house and if anything major requires fixing/replacing then that is on you as you are the owner.

Have a very frank discussion with your b/f before he moves in.

Best of luck with it.

bertiebomber

Charge him rent as a tenant or else he will be entitled to half your property, relationship can often go pear shaped when people move in together and you will lose out. Just like women took houses of men for years so now men are doing the same happened to a friend of mine. Ask a solicitor for advice worth the investment just to be sure before he moves in maybe even draw up a mutual agreement.

893bet

You are not married. Have a Frank conversation about the need to protect your self financially.

Get him a rent book and charge him accordingly IMO.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942012#Comment_118942012

Jesus, this chestnut again. Nobody has an entitlement to half of anything after a relationship breaks down, not even married couples.

If they cohabit for 5 years without children or 3 with them, the boyfriend would be entitled to seek *some* interest in the house, but it's not automatic and he certainly doesn't just get half.

Covidcustomer has it nailed above, OP.

NiceFella

Hi OP,

Just to understand better, is your boyfriend offering you half the mortgage payment on the condition that you don't get another tenent in or just in the case you can't find one?

I think paying the half of living expenses is fair. You could ask him to pay some rent also without it exactly being half your mortgage just to help out which is also perfectly fair.

ted1

Charge him rent, you can put the money away for future use.

also the house is yours. If you do buy a place together, try to keep it.

YellowLead

Definitely charge him rent, and you can split bills.

Especially as you have said the relationship isn’t old and you’re worried about what might happen if it goes south. If it goes south before you buy together and he’s been paying rent, then no harm done.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942054#Comment_118942054

It's 2 years with kids and I have an aunty who had to remortgage her house to pay off a man who had been living with her. I would be curious to read a source you might have for this especially the "not even married couples" having entitlements. Not trying to argue with you. I'm genuinely interested.

Anyway OP I wouldnt take this lightly - read up and dont get caught out:

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/cohabiting_couples/property_rights_and_unmarried_couples.html

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942285#Comment_118942285

Two years, then, apologies. And I never said couples don't have entitlements, of course they do, but there's absolutely no provision for an automatic right to 50% of anything in Irish law. If a separating couple can't come to an agreement about who gets what, the courts will decide. And as your aunt found out, it's not necessarily always in favour of the woman. I'm divorced myself.

OP is asking a very wise question and points out that the partner would be contributing to equity, and that this could be unfair if things didn’t work out long term. Many years ago a relative of mine moved in with her boyfriend, helping with his mortgage, but it was not a legal arrangement and when the relationship ended the fact remained that it was his house despite the fact she had quite heavily invested in it. She naturally felt fairly bitter about it for years.

A co-signed & witnessed agreement should ideally be drawn up, such that the boyfriend is contributing to household expenses rather than helping fund a mortgage. Accounts should be kept on a spreadsheet, and any “rent” he pays should be set against things like house insurance, maintenance etc. The mortgage should be set aside out of the accounts and not be any part of it for the time being, until there is a longer term relationship where dual ownership would be appropriate.

covidcustomer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942285#Comment_118942285

Interesting link, but would it apply here, from the link:

Your property rights if you are not married

If you are cohabiting (living together but not married) and your relationship breaks down, the family home will belong to the person who holds the legal title to the home. This could be one of you, or both of you.

Your name is not on the title deeds but you made contributions to the purchase of the house

Whether you are married or not, if your name is not on the title deeds to the house, you may still be able to show that you have some ownership rights in relation to the house.

These rights are based on the fact that you may have made a contribution, (either directly or indirectly), to the purchase price of the house with the intention of gaining a share in the ownership of the house. Usually, if you can show that you made a contribution to the purchase price of the house, you will be entitled to a share in the house in some proportion to your contribution.

For example, if you paid off half of the mortgage (and the mortgage represented 90% of the purchase price), you may roughly be entitled to 45% of the ownership of the property.

The OP owns the house, she owned it before entering into the relationship with her b/f, genuine question, how would this work if they were together in that house for 5 years and they split up?

Edit to add - I think you are absolutely right, the OP should absolutely seek advice on this.

Treppen

Technically the Bank owns the house though,, not the OP. The Op is still making payments to eventually own the home. So if the BF starts to contribute towards the house then it's not so straightforward.

Ideally she could keep the house and get a new one with the BF. That would be the cleanest. That way the house she has might just about wash it's own hands (i.e. not intend to make a profit but look at it as an investment ... even if she has to put in €100 every month to keep it going ).

Then with the new house it's straight down the middle, 2 people paying one mortgage.

If they're not intending on having kids any time soon then just get an apartment if money is an issue, if kids come along then the game is changed slightly because the properties will eventually become their's (if everyone plays fair).

Trying to make a marriage work with tenants will only last so long, so I would take a very short term view of renting out a room on the property to cover half the mortgage.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942366#Comment_118942366

The problem is when you read these rules they are very vague E.g. "These rights are based on the fact that you may have made a contribution, (either directly or indirectly)"

What does that actually mean? Some posters have implied if theres a rent book you are covered. Maybe you are. Its tricky. If it turns into a bad break up you might find out its up for interpretation. I tend to agree with the poster who says get an apartment 50/50 for living together and keep the house separate. Its a tough one.

Edit: keep the apartment until such times you are ready to completely commit, marry and maybe build/get a family home. As my mother often would tell me "if you want to know someone you have to try living with them".

bertiebomber

Go to your solicitor for advice thats the best thing to do to protect yourself.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942054#Comment_118942054

It is not quite as simple as being "entitled" or not.

If the relationship broke up, the other party could claim to have an equitable interest (not legal interest - which is what you are focusing on but it isn't the only possibility) in the property based on their contributions towards the mortgage. Two choices might be:

A) Get something in writing that the other party is simply paying rent/their own expenses

B) Do nothing and hope that in the event of a breakup, they don't turn into a bitter psycho and use it as an excuse to harass you even if they get very little financially from it.

It would eventually fall to a court to decide if both parties stood their ground. If you choose option B, then you are in a far weaker position at that stage than option A

SVI40

The Co-habiting legislation does allow for the rights to claim entitlement to be waived. BUT, get advice from a solicitor who has experience in this. Things can turn very nasty when relationships break up.

Definitely seek legal advice - you can attend a Free Legal Advice Clinic if needs be. The fact is after a certain amount of time your boyfriend could establish a claim to your property.

I have asked him if he had thoughts on what our financial agreement would be and he said if I wasn’t to have a tenant he’d pay me half of everything but as half of my mortgage is being covered he’d pay half expenses, food etc

This would give me pause for thought, as what is to prevent him from stalling on moving ahead to purchase a jointly owned property with you (and committing himself to a joint mortgage) next year, when he can continue to live in your home rent/mortgage free, indefinitely? It's not like you're under pressure as a couple to buy a home together.

Presumably he is paying for accommodation somewhere now, so what will he be doing with that money? Sounds like he is getting a sweet deal, moving in with you for half bills (or will it be a third, split with your licensee) and food, but no actual accommodation costs?

Tread cautiously.

arabella21

Thanks everyone for the advice, a lot of food for thought there. He is currently living with his mother and pays her monthly rent.

I would make a considerable profit from selling the house which we would potentially use towards a joint house and he agrees that we would get the title deeds drawn to reflect respective contributions, I know if we were to get married everything would automatically be 50/50 at that stage. I will keep renting a room because it is a big financial help and it is only a short term arrangement.

Before we met, I had planned on selling and downsizing and then when we got serious we decided that I would pause that. I had purchased the property with my ex partner and bought him out when we separated.

I have considered keeping it as an investment but I decided that profit along with our combined salaries would enable us to buy a nice home in an area that we like.

One option I had considered is asking him to pay me a monthly sum that I would keep aside for the future and in the case that things didn't work out, I would keep it as rent.

We are going to sit down this evening and talk it all through.

CreadanLady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942585#Comment_118942585

I'd say it is very much up for interpretation and basically any sort of indirect contribution could be viewed by a court as contribution to the equity. For example, where a couple with children are living together and the mother gives up a career to mind the child and mind the house while the man is the sole breadwinner and pays for everything. In that break up settlement the womans work in the family home will be seen as a tangible contribution and she will be coming away with a substantial stake in the house, probably towards 50% even if the man originally bought or built the house and paid all the mortgage. With children, it is probably that she will also retain occupancy of the house until the youngest child is 18/23.

The above stands if it is marriage or cohabiting couples, as the rights in the cohabiting couples act is basically a de facto marriage without the priest or ring.

CreadanLady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118943083#Comment_118943083

If you are keeping a monthly sum you would be better off putting it into a joint account that requires boths of ye to sign for withdrawal if ye break up. That way it is squared away.

The problem is that inflation will knock a dent in it.

Realistically there is not really any concrete way to totally circumvent the risk that he might come looking for somthing .

I know couples who are not willing to risk all this and just both have their own place and spend time together but do not live together. It is a lower risk setup. It is becoming far far more common. I know several couples like this.

CreadanLady

Another potential optoin would be to rent him a room as a friend, with a rent book and records kept of everything, and a standard licensee contract signed by you both and a witness.

Then, if in the event things go pear shaped and if he were to come looking for a stake or pay off, you could pull this out that he was just a friend who rented a room off you and that you could dismiss any claims that ye were a committed intimate cohabiting couple as an irrational delusion that he developed in later times, or something. Any photos or online things could be played off as you both being just friends at the time.

I wonder how that would fare in court. It is something I have often thought about.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118943083#Comment_118943083

"We are going to sit down this evening and talk it all through."

Openness and honesty is the best approach here, put all cards on the table and go through it. You want to protect your own asset at the moment but the basis of any trusting relationship is a sharing of assets ultimately. So you could undermine this goal by being too forensic.

Sometimes see people on these sort of threads talking about 'her money' and 'his money', but any long term and married relationship is corroded by rigid interpretations of these. In our case we have joint current account, joint ownership of property, some savings in my wifes name and some in mine but ultimately we both know that they are all jointly owned.

wildwillow

Does he have funds saved to put a deposit on a house or are you using your existing house to finance a new house?

Has he ever lived an independent life away from his mother?

I would tread very cautiously but you clearly have been through the whole break up business before.

SunnySundays

You need to treat him as a tenant with fully contract tenancy etc. Register it with the ptrb etc.

If he's genuine, he won't have an issue with this, especially in a new relationship.

If I moved in with someone to their house and they didn't want me to sign anything, I would think they were really stupid. I know they'll never need to rely on it but still think they would be a fool not to have it.

CreadanLady

Are you sure it's even wider to be moving in with someone that is so new.

You are clearly uncomfortable and not 100% convinced of it as it is

cj maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942324#Comment_118942324

That's the thing, it goes to court which involves legal fees , acrimonious tension and no guarantee which way it goes. Get an estate agent who'll draw up the tenancy agreement and set up a Direct debit for rent etc. You pay household charges , bin charges water etc and whatever else the landlord is responsible for.Put house phone , sky , broadband etc in your name and your account. Any bills due on this are 50/50 as is food , normal shopping etc like any other tenant. Put his rent money in your bank account. If you buy together later on you have that nest egg as your contribution to a mortgage etc. Don't leave yourself financially exposed in the event of a break up. Honestly, it sounds like he has a cheek to suggest this , while living rent free and feathering HIS bank balance.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953329#Comment_118953329

None of which will matter a jot if he meets the Cohabiting Bill criteria and decides he wants to go after an interest in the house in the event of a break-up.

Any kind of tenancy agreement they draw up will have the same legal standing as a pre-nup, i.e. none.

Now, as I said, a court may very well decide his interest in the house is eff all, but a signed agreement isn't a guarantee of anything.

cj maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953395#Comment_118953395

But my point is he's not co-habiting with her. He's a tenant, with benefits if you like. But a tenant nonetheless. My 2 cents but I'd advise the OP to seek legal advice before letting him pay for anything apart from rent

Wombatman

Once he moves in you can't just turf him out if the relationship goes belly up. The house will be his home too at that point. Don't have him move in until you are prepared to say to each other "what's mine is yours".

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953597#Comment_118953597

A court won't see it that way. So yes, legal advice is probably a good idea for the OP.

ON one hand you’re saying it’s still early in the relationship. Then on the other you’re saying it’s very possible you will buy a house together at some stage in the not too distant future . Something doesn’t add up here.

I have a gut feeling from your post that your boyfriend is rubbing his hands and the thought of low rent, the potential for joint ownership of a house in the future with tons of equity and a low mortgage.

What exactly is his financial situation? It sounds very much like you’re considerably more well off than he is- not paying his way from a rent perspective is just taking the piss in my view-protect your asset and don’t let this relationship cloud your judgement- after all it’s you that said it’s still early in the relationship. Who knows, after a few months of living together you might want rid of him. I’d discourage him from moving in for the moment- let him live with Mammy and save his pennies

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953599#Comment_118953599

This. Theres a show on netflix called Worst Roommate Ever. Give it a watch.

cj maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953981#Comment_118953981

I know. So it’s better to avoid that situation.

CreadanLady

I was just looking at Section 172 of the Civil Partnershop / Co-habitants act 2010. That describes the criteria for what a qualifiying cohabitant is. But it all seems rather wooly and vague.

Like, in practice where would the court draw the line on what is or is not a cohabiting relationship.

In my hypothetical scenario I wonder what would happen......

John and Mary are a couple and live together in Mary's house but as a precaution agree to draw up a licencee arrangement with john paying mary monthly rent and they maintain separate finances and so on. The break up. John now wants a a slice of the house cake and mary refuses and so john takes her to court. John says they were a committed intimate couple and that he is owed a cut of the house. Mary says that no, they were just "friends" and she rented him a room in the house with bill contribution - and here are the signed documents to show it. Mary says they were not a committed couple, just friends, and that john's has developed some sort of irrational delusions that their former "friendship" was a committed intimate relationship when it was actually not, insofar as Mary saw it.

What would happen there? It is basically Johns word against Mary's, plus Mary has signed paperwork to back up her side.

I think, since courts are in reality biased in favour of women when it comes to family law, that Mary would prevail here.

seamus

What would happen there? It is basically Johns word against Mary's, plus Mary has signed paperwork to back up her side.

Yeah, more or less. The signed paperwork may be relatively meaningless in the same way that a pre-nup is. That is, you cannot sign your statutory rights away in a contract. That's what makes them statutory. If John has statutory rights as a cohabiting partner, they can't be signed away in a rental agreement.

3rd party witnesses are relatively rare in civil cases, but if John had documentation to demonstrate a meaningful relationship - booked holidays, photos - as well as sworn affidavits from friends about the nature of the relationship, it would be very difficult for Mary to lean on the "just friends" claim. Civil cases are decided on the balance of probability, so without a decent counter-explanation to John's documents, the court is likely to rule in his favour. Male/female has nothing to do with it.

It's quite difficult to fake a committed relationship, which is why immigration carries out detailed checks looking for citizenship scams. By the same token it's very difficult to fake not being in a committed relationship unless you're meticulous about it from the very start.

pleasant Co.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118955258#Comment_118955258

A normal, cohabiting, couple would very easily be able to prove they were part of a normal, cohabiting, couple and not "just friends". These days there would be a digital paper trail of bookings for hotels, holidays, dates, intimate messages between the two, photos, friends who would have been witness to a very real relationship, and on and on - it really would not be hard to disprove the lie that John had "developed some sort of irrational delusions that their former "friendship" was a committed intimate relationship".

Your fantasy is poorly thought out and the conclusions drawn rely on the lie element being true, ie. that John and Mary maintain a degree of separation both financially and intimately that they in fact were not in a relationship.

Wabbit Ears

A bit late to this discussion but when I bought my house I had a female Tennant initially. We did end up hooking up and I had some concerns and I did speak to my lawyer about it. We did end up married so this never became an issue.

The short of it is once you start sleeping together any and all tenant arrangements are null and void so getting them to sign tenancy arrangements is pointless, they aren't tenants in any legal sense, you are a cohabiting couple.

There is no automatic right to a specific amount or % but they do gain equity. Major household purchases contribute to that. So If they pay for a new suite of furniture or a kitchen or major upgrades, these are all taken into consideration (including depreciation etc). A friend of my dad lived with a woman for years. She owned the house ( inherited) but he paid for considerable renovation and extension. When they split he actually owned more than she did despite her name being on the deeds ( So the house was, say, worth 100k and he spent 200k on renovations/extensions) so she had to buy him out.

You may have to lawyer up to argue what you're owned if you cant agree a figure and its usually gets sorted through mediation rather than a court case.

General advice was do not let them buy any major house purchases, keep a clear record of all money that would be considered part of equity (so anything deemed as 'rent' or helping pay the mortgage). Money contributed and used for household expenditure, food, utilities, etc etc does not count towards equity so there should be a joint account for that sort of money.

So big difference between having a tenant who is contributing to mortgage through rent and the associated tax breaks for rent a room scheme and a BF who's paying towards the Mortgage and is gaining some amount of equity from doing so.

Hopelessatlife

Just be careful too... of course you hope that this is long term and that there won't be issues where things don't work out but from personal experience I would bear in mind to protect yourself no matter what. If you own your property and have been in a relationship and living together for minimum 5 years and partner has been contributing towards the house there are rights there that they would have in terms of the house. It sounds bad but I'd be asking for paperwork declaring those rights are waived just incase things ever went bad.

Spanish Eyes

Would you consider selling your house and you both renting together to see how it goes? If it works out you could both save hard and get a mortgage together for a joint property. If you put more equity in for instance a big deposit, get a legal agreement drawn up to ringfence that + any profit made if you split up and sell the joint property. Alternatively you could rent out your house, although that is not for the fainthearted these days. Look at all your options EXCEPT him moving into your current property for the time being. A test run if you like!

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118981236#Comment_118981236

This has been addressed numerous times in the thread already.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118981236#Comment_118981236

Draw up a prenup equivalent for living together. Could be popular in the current housing crisis. What would you call it?

Precohab

Pregaffshare

Preshackup

Preliveinsin

marilynrr

I don't think it's worth the risk for a newish relationship.

You said you have discussed buying together in the next year or two, but are you even certain he would be in a position to buy? It's unlikely you know all of his credit history etc. if it's a new relationship. Also who knows what the housing/lending situation will be like in a couple of years, a lot can change between now and then. A year or 2 could easily turn into more and then he might have an interest in your house.

If you are sure you see a future with him and want to buy with him I would definitely recommend you live together for a while first, but not for long enough for him to secure an interest in your home.

JayPS 2288

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118981342#Comment_118981342

Ridiculous idea.

Spanish Eyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118982113#Comment_118982113

Maybe to you, but if you would like to explain why it might help others overcome my stupidity.

I do, by the way understand that renting is very expensive and might not give much wriggle room for saving for deposit, but it can be done over time, especially if the OP contributes a substantial deposit from the sale of her home. Renting together at first also gives time to get used to living together, bills, housework, finances, compatibility etc. And the OP's investment is secure. Sounds like there are a lot of minefields involved in the partner moving in to HER home, which may involve costly legal consultations to secure the OP's situation anyway.

As others have said, slowly slowly catchy monkey.

notAMember

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118943083#Comment_118943083

You're in a good position, and I think what you've said here makes some sense.

I was in a similar situation many many years ago.. I owned a place, and my BF moved in, had a lodger paying on rent-a-room. We agreed to try it out, the living together thing , and take stock every 10 weeks or so to see how we were doing. both still happy with the arrangement etc.

What I did rather than set it aside, was overpay the mortgage with the token rent he gave me (not full market rate). I tracked it anyway, just in an excel document so I knew what he was paying and also it was on the bank account, in case of any dispute. There was no tax due under rent-a-room.

He had his own place too. Had it gone sour, we had agreed up front that he would go back to his place, and the money was rent. That way nobody owed anyone anything, we were all square. In a few years we got married, sold his place, bought another family home in a different location with a joint mortgage.

CreadanLady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118981236#Comment_118981236

That is just plain wrong, impossible and stupid. You cannot sign away or waive rights you have under legislation. Sure, you can agree with your partner to waive the rights and have a fancy written agreement, but at the end of the day when the shít his the fen one partner can chuck that agreement and say well I want what i gotta get. The legal entitlement under legislation will always trump whatever contracts people make between each other.

Tea-a-Maria

Have a look into cohabitation agreements. It would most likely mean getting a solicitor involved but sounds like it could be an option here.

marilynrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118982507#Comment_118982507

I'm not the poster who called the idea ridiculous but did read your post and think it wasn't the best advice.

The OP said the relationship is not very old and that they had discussed buying together in a year or 2. That seems like a reasonable time scale, still risky I suppose but all things like this are, but your post read like she should sell her house sooner and start renting with him.

If I had a friend in the OPs situation who had a home which was now her own after buying out her ex and she said she was going to sell to rent with a new boyfriend I'd think she was being foolish. If she wanted to rent with him but not sell her house for a year or 2, or let him move in for a while (but not long enough to secure an interest) I would think that made sense, but to sell her house before they have even seen how living together goes would be a huge risk I think.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942614#Comment_118942614

Personally i think its a bad idea... get a new tenant for a year... by then you will know where you both at and you either come to an arrangement as regard living together... its difficult to have finance in a relationship in my view... someone will always have the upper hand in my view...

ABSOLUTELY no way involve a solicitor involved in your personal life... this is belong to you ONLY...

Sorry if this sounds blunt..