The annual Teachers threaten to strike thread

teachinggal123

I don’t believe you Sam. I think you are yet another teacher living in the bubble. You probably believe you deserve a big pay rise, right?

I also don’t believe you’d report another teacher. Or that you believe teachers who didn’t work during COVID should be sanctioned in any way.

You Sam, are the problem and the reason why the profession is in such trouble.

Sammy2012

What do you not believe? If you'd like to pm your name and teaching council number I'll happily report you

teachinggal123

Just me or all the other teachers who you know about who did nothing during COVID?

Sammy2012

Well you were the only one I remember telling anyone who would listen how you were doing nothing. I can't say the same for others. Could it be they were busy working???

teachinggal123

I don’t believe you don’t know even one teacher who didn’t work during COVID. I just don’t believe you.

And just to be clear, are you saying that teachers who do know other teachers who didn’t work should report them? And you support those teachers being sanctioned, correct?

Also, you didn’t say if you think you deserve a big pay rise Sam. Is that what you deserve … a big pay rise?

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118962929#Comment_118962929

I have a 13 year old. Well I can tell you that was no where near my or my kids experience the teacher who taught my kid (if you can call it being taught) over that 2 year period slapped a load of work up on the seesaw app and then did corrections every 3/4 weeks or when ever it suited them, absolutely no face time offered. No recorded lessons. My wife and I also had to work so trying to deal with your kid and their questions during work time was hard and felt like we were doing the teachers job (in effect we were, wonder where my increment is :) ) and there is not a chance this teacher was contactable after 1:30pm so if you had to go into the office as my wife did there was no chance of a chat with the teacher. I tried multiple times to contact the teacher and could never get through to her. Like I say you should ask other parents outside of your class/school what their experience was as in my case and the majority of people I have asked there was a lot of p1ss taking going on from the teacher side. Look I am sure there are good teachers out there too but the problem is your lumped in with those who are watching the clock and of course they get increments for doing so. Any notion of some kind of performance related scaling when it comes pay rises would never be entertained as can be seen by the likes of Andrew on here. It wouldn't take too much to have a measure from the teachers point of view for having them assessed and not just exams to see how good, bad or ugly your kid is at math for example on top of external exams the teacher could be assessed on the following.

Continuation of their education

Experience is vital of course but the incremental system should be done away with

Ability to foster positive interactions with their students (Student feedback)

Ability to create a positive class room environment

Ability to use homework and assessment to determine a students level of proficiency

Of course if the student is not at the required level within a given subject or over all communication with the parent (parent feedback) and a plan to help the student along. This would also feed into finding out if the kid has any underlining condition that is hampering them. The days of the bold boy/girl being left down the end of the class because he/she is deemed too thick to participate is no longer acceptable. A lot of kids who were that bold boy/girl have been diagnosed with autism as adults and they managed to slip through well over a decade of schooling and it not being caught.

Reports from the principal

Reports from colleagues (All done anonymously so no reprisals from one teacher to the other)

External examiners shadowing a teacher for 2/3 days without giving any notice of them coming in and a report given

Integration with updated teaching methodology (without the usual uproar)

I am sure there are other countries that don't engage in giving pay rises for just watching the clock surely we should be looking at the countries giving the best results and trying to see what else could be used.

As I say you may be a teacher deserving of a pay rise but how do we know?

briangriffin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963252#Comment_118963252

I remember teachingal you saying on a different forum you didn't do anything because the older teachers in your school were doing very little during lockdown.

Ive many nieces nephews and children of my own, I work in a large school and have collegeues working in other schools around, I know enough to know that there were teachers who were not doing what they should be bit likewise they were vastly outnumbered by the ones who were working hard especially when it came to lockdown number 2, because we had all received training by then on homeschooling. I most certainly hope you upped your game for lockdown number 2 teachingal. To be fair id hope parents would report the teachers to the Principal and the principal would speak to them but I'm afraid the procedures for disciplinary action might not be in place given we haven't had a pandemic like it before hopefully the department will have a look at it now.

I can assure you one thing though Sammy is not the problem you might need to take a look in the mirror there.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118962995#Comment_118962995

It predates it as I have issue with them looking for a pay rise after pay rise that my kids and grand kids will have to pay back with interest.

Sammy2012

The payrise issue to me is irrelevant. I'll be fine without it but will happily take what we get.

I don't care if you don't believe me. I was busy working and being a parent but did have time to read your comments online. They were quite entertaining at the time when there was little else to do. Did your colleagues report you about your unwillingness to do anything?? You haven't answered that either. I would definitely support teachers with your attitude being sanctioned.

briangriffin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963324#Comment_118963324

You think teacher salaries are the reason we are was it 240 billion in debt, they are the responsible for our national debt?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963109#Comment_118963109

The teacher doesn't teach the parent though.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963341#Comment_118963341

Well what can be show is that the more than doubling of what we pay out for public sector salary and pensions in the decade preceding the 2008 crash does have a lot to do it with it. As Bertie bought the public sector boyos off with bench marking twice and when the magic money tree that was stamp duty on property (8% at the time) got chopped down it left us with a huge commitment to public sector pay, pensions and welfare and with the private sector going losing over 400k jobs in the years that happened after the crash we had no other choice but to pay. This is a fact even if no bank had gone to the wall we would of been in debt by well over 180 billion now for what we spent in the last 2/3 decades.

teachinggal123

@Sammy2012 good to hear that you would report teachers who did no work during COVID. I wonder how many other teachers on here would agree with you. I’ve never seen a teacher being sanctioned and i would bet that no teacher was sanctioned during COVID. In fact, I’ve seen teachers who are completely unfit being protected by other teachers and the unions. We all have and it’s a lie to say otherwise.

Sammy2012

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963314#Comment_118963314

Okay that is crap that you had that experience with your child's teacher. As a matter of interest did you raise the issue with the principal once school returned? I know my principal would have had a few things to say to me if she's received that information from a parent of a child in my class.

In answer to your incremental suggestions some of them are actually not bad. The problem would be if it was entirely assessment based. This will never work. You cannot judge all children off the national average. Drumcondras are great but give you a snapshot of your specific class. I am in constant contact with the parents of the children in my class who need extra support. They are well aware of the issues/struggles their children are having. Teaching has changed and if I found out my own children were in a class where the teacher thought some children were "bold" or "too thick" to learn id be removing them from that class and school.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963336#Comment_118963336

I never said I didn't believe you. I have even said I had a few bad teachers but I also had good teachers as well. The issue is how to reward a good teacher.

See once again when an argument is made that makes a bit of sense the auld "ah but you had time to comment on line". So lets nail this one for good my job and performance with in my job has zero to do with this. I could sit here and watch the clock and get paid day after day. The difference is you do not pay any taxes towards my salary. What attitude trying to stop a debt being built up even further for my kids and grand kids to pay..Good luck with that as I say the old ways are going and its going to really hit home when Sinn Fein get in. People are no longer listening to the mouth pieces a pay rise for teachers means a cut in services/additional debt/additional taxes for everyone else. This is simple maths even the clock watchers among you can do this calculation

Sammy2012

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963382#Comment_118963382

So I will ask you again. Did you report yourself? Or did your colleagues report you?

Sammy2012

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963401#Comment_118963401

Sorry filiball that comment was made at teachinggal. Not you at all..

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963410#Comment_118963410

No bother

Sammy2012

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963401#Comment_118963401

As I mentioned that comment was purely meant for teachinggal. I can assure you I fully live in the real world. I understand the concept of borrowing and paying back. I also would rather there were services in place that the kids in my own classroom or if necessary my own children could assess if they needed to. I have been quite vocal about this. I would happily forgo a pay increase if these services would be improved. But the prob with this is it's the HSE that needs to be revamped. There are far too many vested interests for things to change. And I am dubious about what Sinn Fein will do when they get in. But we will most definitely find out.

briangriffin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963367#Comment_118963367

As a matter of interest what percentage increase of teacher salaries is apportioned to that debt? what percentage is inline with inflation since 2002 was it? What percentage is across the board in all public sector jobs? What percentage is due to the fact of population increase? What percentage is due to a welcome effort on the part of the department of Eduction in attempting to reduce class size by employing more teachers? You understand that our standard of living across the board is one of the highest in Europe? Dublin is one of the most expensive cities, we have one of the highest social welfare payment systems in Europe, and as I've posted above the UK model is not one we should be trying to replicate.

teachinggal123

@Sammy2012 do you expect me to answer your questions when you are ignoring mine?

Actually, no need to answer as I don’t believe you. I suspect you do know teachers who did nothing during COVID … read the replies from parents above … we all do!! I also suspect you would not report these teachers. And that you do not support sanctions/removal for unfit teachers.

Not 1 single teacher was sanctioned in any way for the sh1t show that was COVID teaching. Not even 1. Personal story … my sister complained about a teacher in the local school directly to the principal … nothing changed. My sister then went to the BoM … still nothing. Because there is no sanction. Teachers got away with it and were not called out by other teachers or the unions even though we all knew what was happening.

Sammy2012

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963463#Comment_118963463

Was that teacher you??

As I said I don't know of any teachers personally but I've read the stories and reports online. Of course there were teachers who didn't work. You were one of them.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963391#Comment_118963391

Yeah it was raised by quite a few parents and we got the - ah the pandemic ah isnt it terrible, ah we are doing what we can , we are not in normal circumstance.

I agree with the assessment as a teacher cannot be blamed for a childs ability/or lack of but I did suggest a host of other areas that could be used good teachers should be paid more I have no bother with that (when its affordable) and bad teachers should be getting nothing or shown the door but under the current system with unions its not just bad teachers getting the rise it will be the flood of 400k workers in all public sector jobs looking fore more. So we cannot afford it at the moment.

Well I know the bold/too thick issue did happen back when I want to school and looking at it now and having experience with my nephew I can easily say I went to school from junior infants to 6th year with at least 3 people who were definitely on the spectrum may have been 1 or 2 more and the teachers were vile towards them and as I say there are numerous stories of adults now being diagnosed.

teachinggal123

@Sammy2012 you are struggling … stop digging! No one believes you … you are not credible saying one thing online and doing the complete opposite in practice.

As I said above, you and your ilk are the reason the teaching profession is in such a toxic, dysfunctional mess.

Sammy2012

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963479#Comment_118963479

Oh that issue happened when I was in school too. But (closing my eyes) that was over 25 years ago in my case and times have most definitely changed. Things are very different now. I'm not saying there isn't the odd dinosaur around but they really are few and far between.

Yes bad teachers should be removed from schools but I have family who work in other areas of the public service and the amount of waste is shocking. I heard one story about a boss being out on leave for a number of weeks and some decisions were made in their absence. When they return the changed them at a cost to the tax payer of 70million. Do you know how many SNAs, assessments, additional resources that would pay for? And that's just one story, from one department. I also heard stories of people who were "working" from home not being available for meetings for weeks on end. No sanction at all but talk of them not being allowed to continue to work from home in future. It should be about the entire public service not just teachers being singled out.

Sammy2012

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963491#Comment_118963491

Thats it teachinggal. Its all my fault. You should change your user name to your actual job. But if you really are a teacher your attitude is just amazing!!!!!

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963453#Comment_118963453

The income vs expenditure figures are up there on line for the last 2/3 decades. The 2 biggest areas of spend in that time has been welfare (as you rightly pointed out) and public sector pay and pensions. The problem was PS pay and pensions more than doubled in the decade preceding the 08 crash with things like Bertie's buying PS votes and based it on a tax revenue that could disappear(and it did) as it was related to the property market (its a little like our corporation tax currently if this goes we are phucked) and then we had the sh1t of pay cuts (one being a contribution to a defined benefit that us mere mortals in the private sector can only dream about - the pension levy) while increments were still being paid in the period after the crash (a bit like emptying a swimming pool by using a bucket to take water out at the deep end and throwing it back into the shallow end.). Not to mention not one enforced redundancy from the public sector - they were asked to go with a nice little kicker in order to go and no one vetted as to who was going or how vital they may be in the sector so a lot of employees who took redundancy under the public sector were rehired as contractors. It was a complete sh1tshow..

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963512#Comment_118963512

But the whole sector is done on increment its just as bad to weed these guys out as it is for weeding out bad teacher. So you look at them as the general public look at teachers so at least you can understand the frustration.

teachinggal123

It’s not all your fault @Sammy2012 … no need to play the martyr … but you are absolutely part of the problem.

briangriffin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963491#Comment_118963491

The actual irony of this statement coming from someone who openly admitted to doing nothing during covid lockdowns.

Sammy worked during lockdowns you did not yet she is what's wrong with the profession? I'd say its easy spot the credible one.