12 Penalty Points

Ham Grenade

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058242478/12-penalty-points

Great news ! Another dangerous driver off the road for a while. Hopefully you’ll find insurance too expensive to resume your hazardous ways behind the wheel.

zimmermania

A true story,woman gets her car serviced,husband,a professional guy arrives home for lunch, woman complains that there is a funny noise coming from the car since the service.

Husband takes it for a run to please her,comes back ten minutes and says no noise detected and car is running well.

A couple of weeks later wife receives 6 penalty points in the post from a van parked in the same location 3 penalty points ew.

Wife is furious screaming that she did not get the points saying she never exceeded the limit in her life and twigging that he got the points on the day.

I agree love he said but i would not have got them only or you and you are certainly getting them.

The story is true and two wrongs certainly made a right.

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953435#Comment_118953435

Not sure what you mean by behaving ?

A motorist capable of providing a breath sample that was under the limit would in my book be regarded as behaving properly .

Yes he may have been behaving erratically . I can’t testify as to his behaviour. I would however consider it unlikely . Same man had one parking ticket as his only offence in thirty five years with over half a million kilometres behind the wheel .

wotzgoingon

I nearly got caught once I was speeding in a stretch with a hard shoulder so perfectly safe. And I was coming up and spotted it hand slammed the brakes and was waiting for a while after for the letter and none ever came so they would want to get better cameras because as I said I was speeding and didn't get detected.

I was caught another time and it's my own fault for not slamming the brakes and hoping for the best. I was behind this 80km/h driver on a 100km/h road and I had many chances to pass earlier and didn't take the chance got to a straight stretch and passed and kept the pedal to the metal so exceeded the speed limit by a good amount and sure enough the van was there as I had just passed. I was too distracted by the slow driver to be looking at the van seen it and thought it was too late to brake hard. AS I said I should have and just see but didn't so I knew after that I was caught. Sure enough the letter came out with a picture of the back of my car and the registration plate.

Ginger83

Just get a mate with a clean licence to take them

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118951181#Comment_118951181

It's an awful shame many of our boys in blue didn't have that attitude when they were quashing points for their mates.

John_Rambo

12 points is a lot. Out of interest, what type of driving do you do Happy Monday so we can learn from your mistakes? Lots of primary & secondary road driving across the country on unfamiliar roads I'm guessing.

My only advice is to echo other posters and to contact your local solicitor.

HeidiHeidi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953856#Comment_118953856

Slamming on the brakes while driving at speed on an open road is your idea of perfectly safe driving?

wotzgoingon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118954518#Comment_118954518

It was yea as there was nobody on the road except me. That's including the other side of the road too. Good straight stretch with hard shoulders either side and road to myself, for sure I put the foot down. I would have slowed down anyway at the end of the hard shoulder part and back to twists and turns. Now if someone was speeding in that part of the road then yea that is dangerous driving.

lawred2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953819#Comment_118953819

What?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118954537#Comment_118954537

A good straight stretch with clear hard shoulders and apparently nobody around and yet you still had to slam on the brakes so that the speed camera would not catch you. Think that through fully, will you?

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953807#Comment_118953807

More and more this place is like Journal.ie's comments section or callers to the Joe Duffy show.

magicbastarder

Oh come on, the OP claims to be one of the current worst drivers in Ireland, of course people will be happy to see him of the road.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058242478/12-penalty-points

I dunno - the nephews may look after themselves, should be hardy enough.

Your job? Public transport or lifts with someone else.

Elderly parents? Do they live nearby or you with them. Neighbours, lifts, taxis if needed.

All can be sorted. Pas de problem.

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118954998#Comment_118954998

That depends on your definitions on "worst". You could define "worst" as people who kill either themselves, or others, but even that probably isn't fair. Most near misses? Most actual number of crashes?

I would suggest that almost everyone on 12 points finds themselves in a situation where they have no friend or family to take the points.

Someone caught speeding 4 times in 3+ years (points take months to be applied) likely isn't a great driver, but if it's someone doing 50k+ km per year in areas where cameras are common, then it's not necessarily true that they're any more dangerous than another driver who hasn't been caught.

I don't think it's an excuse btw, but older people often have a very difficult time learning new things. They drive like they always have done, see themselves as safe (having never once crashed), and don't actually learn to slow down or pay more attentions when they get points.

creedp

Often these olders drivers can be seen trundling along well under the 100 / 80 kph speed limits but not slowing down sufficiently in 60 / 50 kph speeds zones. So obviously they are extremely save drivers on the higher speed roads but morph into dangerous maniacs in lower speed zones.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952553#Comment_118952553

Have you any sort of data or statistical analysis to back up what you're saying, or are you just pulling it from where the sun don't shine?

We rarely target poor road layout,

There are very, very few roads in Ireland with a genuinely poor layout that I've come across, and of those, even fewer were poorly laid out for vehicular traffic. They're almost always poorly designed for pedestrians and/or other vulnerable road users. Cars/vans/lorries/trucks are usually fine.

poor road surfaces/condition,

Again, the standard of road surfaces in this country is, generally, very high. People complain and moan but the state of the roads even 10 -15 years ago was appalling, compared to today. Anyway, there is a mechanism for reporting poor surfaces, potholes etc, and the council are always out fixing/repairing/maintaining etc. They have a whole division whose primary responsibility is dealing with this stuff, so saying we rarely target it is demonstrably false. Not to mention the fact that such issues are exacerbated by speeding.

driver competency

That's the whole point of the test. I agree there should be more regular testing, but every single driver on the road (bar the amnesty brigade who are all 60+ and may well have been tested since) has had their competency tested. again, demonstrably false.

and drivers cognitive ability (drink/drugs/inattention e.g phone use)

These are targeted all the time, what are you talking about?

Its lazy and excuses all the other major contributors to road fatalities.

"Road surfaces alone" were the major contributing factor in fewer than 2% of road deaths in one study (.pdf) carried out. "Driver action alone" was a whopping 60+%, though there's no breakdown for speeding. No other factor, on its own, was higher than 3.2%. Some sources suggest the figure for speeding is 40%. Others say

Bottom line, there are no "other major contributors to road fatalities".....none that come close to speeding, at least. Saying we hardly target anything else is patently absurd.

During the course of 2021:

Over 175,000 drivers were detected committing speeding offences; 

Over 23,000 detected using a mobile while driving;

Almost 8,800 arrests were made for driving under the influence of an intoxicant

Over 7,000 were detected for seatbelt offences.

Over 7,500 unaccompanied learner drivers were detected.

That's 46,000 cases of other factors being targeted. (Source), which is still dwarfed by the 175,000 speeding fines, but amounts to over 125 per day, every day for a full year. People just assume that all resources are allocated to speeding because a) it generates money and b) it's in your face all the time.

What they neglect to take into account, however, is that a) so do all the other offences and b) that's the whole point of the campaigns.

Forgot to add, doing 80 in a 50 zone is a scumbag move, delighted you'll be off the road for that alone.

magicbastarder

Someone caught speeding 4 times in 3+ years (points take months to be applied) likely isn't a great driver

firstly, typically ~1000 drivers at any one time are on 12 penalty points. an honour shared by one in every 2,500 drivers or so. if you manage to get to the point where you're in that rarified company, it's clear you're a bad driver.

secondly, the OP admitted to being caught doing 70-80 in 50km/h zones; someone who repeatedly gets caught and is doing those speeds is a pretty piss poor driver with achingly poor observation. just for the record, the OP was asked was he caught by speed vans or gardai, and his reply was "Speed vans - fixed charge notices in the post on 50km stretches going 75-80km."

OP also said that the first offence was December 2020, so it should be "caught speeding 4 times in 16 months". Getting caught an average of once every four months means its happening way, way, way more often than that and needs to be nipped in the bud.

cpoh1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118955404#Comment_118955404

I love a good debate genuinely but if you are saying we dont have any poorly designed roads and the condition of the roads we drive on is high well have to call it quits right here. You are either living in dreamland or have never left the confines of inner city dublin.

bladespin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118955694#Comment_118955694

True, assuming a general poor level of driving there must be a reason why some roads, junctions etc seem to have a much higher incident rate than others.

emo72

I heard of a person on 15 or 18 points. Something mad. Points were coming in very regular. They didn't present their license ever and they didn't tell their insurance company. Still driving. Obviously not insured if they get into an accident. But hey. Still driving.

Apothic_Red

I used work in Intel, got a lift ever morning from Tullamore to Lexlip for work, threw him 20 quid, those were the days.

Anyway one day he opened a letter he'd on the dash for a few days, thought it was his tax disc.

Letter was to inform him his 12 month ban for drink driving was up, which was nice.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118955694#Comment_118955694

1. I never said we don't have any poorly designed roads
2. I never said we don't have any roads in poor condition
3. I provided valid stats on how often poor roads are identified as a contributory factor in fatal clashes
4. You ignored that, while also ignoring 98% of the rest of my post. Presumably because you have no counter-argument. this negates your claim that you "love a good debate"
5. I think we should call it quits, on that we can agree at least. But not for the reasons you listed. I'd say its more likely that someone like you, who considers the OP travelling at 160% of the speed limit to be unlikely to kill someone, is incapable of any reasonable discussion on this matter.

Apothic_Red

My wife was up to 6 once once & was worried about it affecting her insurance.

I had to take her next one for her, the only points I ever had & wasn't even my offence.

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118950204#Comment_118950204

That’s called perverting the course of justice the maximum penalty for which is 10 years imprisonment. Just ask the U.K. cabinet minister and his wife who spent time in chokey for just that!

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118955694#Comment_118955694

I dunno CP the roads of inner city Dublin are some of the worst I've seen in a European capital city.

stickman1019

Nothing advise on your current situation but in future by a sat nav one with the speed on roads that beeps at you when you go over had these for years found them a great help.

Sometime you might not realize the speed you are doing or sometimes roads are rated a lot lower than you think

AndyBoBandy

^ if only there was some sort of driver visual aid in a car which displayed what speed the car was driving at….

if someone needs a gps to ping at them when they are speeding, they probably need to reevaluate whether they should be driving in the first place.

are there genuinely people out there driving with no clue what speed they are driving at?

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118956022#Comment_118956022

You could get 10 years in prison in Ireland for taking somebody else's penalty points. Really?

How many are locked up for this crime at the moment?

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118959354#Comment_118959354

Probability theory is a fat lot of good if you are the one doing the time.

Homer

Nobody has ever been convicted like that in this country and likely never will. But nice high horsery there. I’d say you’ve probably got good friends who think you’re a bit of a dick

FishOnABike

The image of the registration plate on a fixed penalty speeding notice is just a small window of the full image captured. While nominating a driver other than the registered owner of the vehicle would appear to be taken at face value (provided the nominated driver agrees) if it is questioned there may be evidence to show who was driving at the time.

mikeecho

I honestly believe that for up to 7 or 8km/h over, it should just be a fine.

Over that, and a fine & points.

That or a graduated scale of fines, with no points whatsoever.

And I'm talking about massive fines, something like €80 basic + €50 for every km over.

So, in a 100 zone.

108= €80

109=€130

110=€180

111=€230

115=€430

120=€680

130= €1,180 etc.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118956022#Comment_118956022

€1500 fine and 6 months in prison, according to the IT

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/penalty-point-swapping-to-save-licences-1.443766

Dr_Colossus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118955426#Comment_118955426

Depends on the road(s) in question. Infamous dual carriageway section on the outskirts of Galway a good few kms long with a 50km/h limit, would often have motorists doing 100km/h on that section as that's the limit on a similar section of road preceding it. Of course there are often speed traps along the road as it's an easy target. Has been campaigns for years in Galway to get the limit increased.

Happy Monday

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118960454#Comment_118960454

Yes - and most of these points come from that dirty 30 area of Galway.

Dirty 30 as the speed limit used to be 30 there!

Whocare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058242478/12-penalty-points

It obvious what to do when the fine came in the post ie went you wasn't caught in person put someone else name down friend ect and give him few euros for troubles.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118960454#Comment_118960454

Agree. This is why there is a difference between breaking a speed limit and being a dangerous driver. In many instances, given that many speed checks are located at very safe road locations, points are awarded for the former and not for the latter. So personally I wouldnt be too closely equating Points awarded with actual dangerous life threatening behaviour.

Although there are many who choose not to differentiate between the breaking a speed limit and dangerous driving. Much easier to classify someone doing 130kph on a straight dry motorway in the same category as someone doing 80kph in a 50kph urban zone.

Of course breaking a speed limit is breaking the law and so for the small % of people caught this means getting points and being labelled as monsters in some people's eyes, some of which is deserved of course.

rob316

80 in a 50k? I'd have some smypathy if you were putting the boot down on the motorway as most of us do.

If you have people depending on you, you really should of thought of that at 9 points.

Duckjob

The points system is inherently very fair. Reaching the holy grail of 12 points means you're really quite a slow learner or else you're refusing to learn.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118959394#Comment_118959394

Another individual who needs to learn a bit about probability theory... Waffle dressed up as advice is still just waffle.

DaveyDave

Funny a few people said people are just on their high horse or virtue signaling. How? For abiding by the speed limit? It's really not that difficult. I've been driving for 6 years and never got done for speeding.

I could understand someone getting done for speeding once or twice over a number of years but if you lose your license you're a bad driver and an idiot.

Back Home

https://autoexpert.com.au/owning-a-car/2010/11/18/speed-kills-or-does-it.html?fbclid=IwAR2Awj0CeGGKfoNcUkL-DG2aowyjQNrej6daFHmZZm1_wATcyhIcLCH2gP4

maestroamado

If its important enough I would appeal to circuit court... It will cost a bit...

What strikes me is speeding is more serious crime in Ireland than assault as these convictions are quashed every day on payment to charity...

We have the worst roads of anywhere I have driven and probably 15 countries...

dodzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118950097#Comment_118950097

Virtue Signalling.

Jesus, I’ve never come across a forum site that has embraced these two words so much. I propose that anyone using the phrase going forward is taken out and shot with balls of their own sh!te.

listermint

I've no idea how someone can rack up 12 points in the last two years specifically. With a global pandemic. Your driving would have been halfed anyway .

Some level of eejitery..

RainInSummer

Looks like the system is working. Consistently bad choices and an inability to improve are being rewarded with time off the road.

Is the fifth or sixth time going to magically cop you on? Doubt it.

Tippman24

Two points to make here.

1. the speed limit is the speed limit.
2. If you are going to nominate a third party as being the driver of the vehicle at the time of the incident, make sure to stay on their good side. Remember the MP in England who, with his wife's agreement nominated her as being the driver at the time of his detection speeding. during a subsequent divorce, the wife made the actions known to the Police who investigated the matter. The case went to Court with the ex husband being convicted.