70 Burglaries!

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987913#Comment_118987913

Well I don't necessarily think that it is the case that there are a load of lads now out in Tallaght who will think "That's grand. I can now go and burgle those 70 properties those lads were going to do next week. Lucky for me they were caught or I'd have had to sit at home waiting for my time to come"

Lets do a cost benefit analysis. What do you think the cost is for the average burglary? A few hundred damage to the property and let's say 2k ok property stolen (as in a laptop or two). Say 2.5k. Now these lads are linked to a recent spate of 70 of these. That's 175k damages.

That'll go a fair way towards their incarcaration. Plus some of that money will be going back into the economy in employment of prison staff etc. On a cost-benefit analysis, considering only two options, I'd say it is cheaper for society to lock them up rather than let them continue as they are

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118988012#Comment_118988012

Yes reproduction, harder for them to reproduce when they are stuck in jail

when there is no disincentive to commit crime in the first place its an easy choice to make

do you think they are waiting in a queue somewhere for a spot to open up is it?

Disgusting - if a homeowner had a weapon, and rightfully used it against one of them savages, he'd likely get more jailtime than the whole lot of these fcukers will get cumulatively,, fked up Country - do whatever ya like to the plebs, and there's nowt they can do about it,,

at least they were caught - so fair play,, Guess the 'wrong person' was one of the (previous) victims, hence the big oppo... but maybe that's just a CT 😏 ☹️

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118988096#Comment_118988096

Yup, when there's no actual evidence to support your view then just make stuff up. It's a wonder any burglaries are successful, you'd think people would spot the orderly queues of criminals waiting their turn.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118988216#Comment_118988216

They are very mannerly as well. Waiting their turn to go down the country robbing old people.

Varik

Concurrent sentencing should be the first thing to go, and give judges no option of handing out lighter sentences for the additional sentences so if someone is already getting X years for the first burglary then they get ~X (fact dependant) for the second rather than getting lighter as the poor pet has already got X years.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118988162#Comment_118988162

if you take the proceeds of crime back of the criminals then you just incentivize them to do more crime

tis a vicious circle

mikethecop

Fair enough the three strikes law isnt a great idea in a basic version ,

how about five strikes for specific offences , burglary robbery assault sec 3 and or above, drugs in excess of a specific value say 13 000,, ie sex 115 1a MDA rape murder child porn etc

hard to beleive that some one could accidently accrue those convictions .

At that point you are protecting the res of us from people who obviously have made the choice not to live within the laws of the state

we do not have a endless population of high level scumbags like them lads from naas . lock enough of them up for ever and it would have a effect and even if it doesn't those specific scumbags will have no more victims while they wait to die in jail

1874

Why is it posters seem to think the options are ONLY either A. lock them up AND dont do anything about preventing the causes of crime OR B. Dont lock them up and do something about preventing the causes of crime.

WHY NOT BOTH? C. Lock up offenders, rehab them under supervision, then put them into courses/work experience/work outside prison AND also treat the causes that lead to young people turning to crime

Repeat offenders should not be prioritised over first offenders (not their first sentence, include their entire record).

Having said that, in this country money has been put into DEIS schools for education and sports, its likely it will never be enough AND at the same time money is diverted away from support services BUT at some point its about personal responsibility.

To get children away from parents or relatives who groom them for a life of crime, well if Fagan was locked up, surely that helps?

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118988180#Comment_118988180

they were removed from the equation and the burglary rate dropped. I don't understand your question.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118988261#Comment_118988261

make it the 300 strike rule here

to even have the time to have 300 convictions and still be out committing crimes, you would think it impossible

when things get that stupid, you know some vested interest is making coin off it

its like the housing/rental market, its gone on so long its not incompetence, they want it to be that way, same with the health service

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118988283#Comment_118988283

he was obviously confused as to why others didnt just hop off the bench to sub in for them, maybe they only had the one car

Manic Moran

But this isn't so. The factors that would have cause A to steal my car are still at work, and may cause B to steal my car and, if they do, I don't experience any reduction in crime; just an increase in my taxes to pay for the (now longer) imprisonment of both A and B. I would rather my extra taxes should go into measures that will deter both A and B from stealing my car.

I have an issue with this statement. The factors don't 'cause' crime. Someone chooses to steal your car. Factors may incentivise, facilitate, or other such words, but the bottom line is that someone made the conscious choice to steal a car. Absolutely, measures should be taken to reduce the appeal of crime as a hobby/side gig/primary gig in the first place when compared to a fully law-abiding career, but on the other hand, Ireland has quite a significant social safety net, did those five lads need to go on a burglary spree? Or did they want to?

Ham_Sandwich

Everyone very quick to be judge jury and executioner, we don't know these guys story, what kind of homes they came from, how deprived their area is, what kind of addiction or mental health issues they might have, but sure lock they up and throw away the key that will solve it.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118988283#Comment_118988283

My question was, up until the few weeks months before these individuals left the planet did the burglary rate spike? Were they performing a sustained glut of thefts over a relatively short period time?

Crime statistics are essentially collated annually, if burglary dropped 30% that would make them pretty major.

Have you link to that stat? Did it come from the Gardaí Press Office?

Atlantic Dawn

I wonder did they have a mothership car travelling with them that they unloaded items other than the cash and jewellary to during each session? 5 of them in one car wouldn't leave much room for other items.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987620#Comment_118987620

And related to a number of individuals killed driving up the n7 the wrong Way very recently mentioned above

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118989028#Comment_118989028

I don't have a link to it but I do believe it did come from a garda source. they were doing multiple burglaries a night. while they may release crime stats yearly that doesn't mean they only collate them yearly.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987555#Comment_118987555

They are not the only gang either.

Prevention is the way forward. Stop pandering to lobbyist groups like pavee point and the legal system/free legal aid needs a sever emergency overhaul.

Invest in prison capacity and actually get tough on crime. These guys are not scared at all.

I see one of them wearing a Kildare GAA top in the picture. I know the scene quite well, wonder if there is an affiliation.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118989000#Comment_118989000

Forget the burglary and the rest of the **** they no doubt pulled

the driving alone, only by pox did they not kill themselves and some other poor sods or garda

so we dont need to know any more than that to judge them, throw away the key

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118989048#Comment_118989048

The only thing I could find was.

Burglary was down 21% percent in 2021 compared to 2020.

The bulk of that is attributed to the pandemic though.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118989093#Comment_118989093

no this was specifically related to the period before and after they died in the crash. It was mentioned in the thread on them but the search doesn't work well and I can't be arsed to dig through it.

Found the link:

https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/irish-crime/decrease-in-leinster-burglaries-attributed-by-gardai-to-deaths-of-three-criminals-in-n7-crash-40858796.html

sam t smith

The 5 of them will be out on bail by the weekend if not already. They will continue to offend while waiting trial, they will serve disproportionately short sentences, will be released early and will continue to offend. Rinse and repeat.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118989104#Comment_118989104

any offences they commit between being released on bail and getting sentenced will be freebies for them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118989000#Comment_118989000

I truly don't care what their backgrounds are. It's irrelevant. And TBH it's one of the reasons Justice has become such a joke in Western nations.

They broke the law. A damn easy law not to break. It's not as if they broke a law by jaywalking.

I never quite understand this sob story mentality some people have in defending criminals.

As for punishment vs rehabilitation, I favour punishment. To serve as a warning to the "normal" people out there that such behaviour will not be tolerated, and for the victims, to know that they have a Justice system that backs them up. Some people will not respect the law, for whatever reason that applies. You can't manage that because the reason is going to be individual to them.

And for all the talk, rehabilitation is extremely finicky. Sometimes it works, but fails in the long term. Other times it fails altogether. And while punishment has been proven to be just as bad.. I see no reason to replace it with something we barely understand, and have no realistic way of generating stable results.

Personally, I think we should have sentencing and the removal of a variety of "rights" or "privileges" within society. Break the law in a particular area three times, lose those privileges for thirty years, in addition to the time served. Let's remind people why being a citizen is something worth valuing.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118989028#Comment_118989028

Say there were say 2000 robberys in ireland in one year and these lads with the audi did 70 in a month or so, this gives a good indication of the amount it could drop by, the story was the drop in, month by month

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118989135#Comment_118989135

id favour punishment and rehab, enticement to behave and a second chance

then punishment

you don't need 3 strikes, just add on 50% of the sentence for each time

70 burglaries should not treated the same as 1 etc, burglary and dangerous driving? sentence for both, try to ram a garda car in the escape etc

Caught driving without insurance and license? the answer is not a driving ban, its a joke, but that is what people get

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118989103#Comment_118989103

Oh right, thanks.

I was thinking it wasn't a drop nationally. That would have made them industrially prolific.

tabby aspreme

That crew have been moving around South Kildare for a while, the first mention of that jeep on community alert, was on the 2nd of April, relations of Fat Andy Connor's and have some connections around Kildare town.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987634#Comment_118987634

Yeah the prison lobby was lobbying hard for three strikes including minor crimes. The ideal prisoner in prison for life is a harmless lad caught with a bit of weed or something similarly harmless. Easy lifetime customers for the prison system. It could only happen with private prisons. 10 strikes for serious crimes, triggering a longer sentence, would be a lot more reasonable. I'd have much less objection to that.

If you put someone in prison for 15 years. Chances are they'll never get a serious job. So you'd need to factor in either paying for their prison place or paying their dole when they get out. But that's just a matter of counting the long term costs. Prison costs about €80,000 per person per year so the costs need to be thought about and they'll need to be funded through increased tax. Bit that's just the cost. We can't do anything for free