Minimum Wage - How can you survive ?
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Fine. Although, I think you're wrong also. It's not hard to see that there has continued to be a drain on the population, with the young going to other parts of the country or abroad. Farms and businesses are more and more being operated by the elderly because there is nobody to replace them.. and just stepping into the front yards of most houses, is enough to see just how poor people are.. in comparison with the rest of the country. It's only around Barna that you see any major increases in population with people travelling to Galway to work. Most of my cousins (from that area) have moved to other counties, married and made their lives there, and nearly every conversation with those I meet, tends to revolve around their children who are living elsewhere, or planning to go somewhere else when they finish school.
Just because you've managed to make your way into tech, doesn't mean that the vast majority of people in that area have been able to shift the focus of their skills. What about all those people who were reliant on the more traditional incomes for the region. Ahh sure, they'd be fine if they moved into tech.. and I agree, they would be... but most won't.
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As with most places, it really depends on where you want to live. You'll pay through the nose for anything convenient.
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20 year ago we were in a boom and to quote one politician of the time 'The boom will only get boomier'. Go back in time over 25 years ago and yes, we are far better on than the 80' to min 95s and earlier. Little to no jobs in the country and everyone emerging.
When is the money (including lost growth) Michael Noonan took in the Pension Levy going to be paid back?
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Moycullen has grown, Clifden is growing, Oughterard, Spiddal is growing again you are wrong.
Like christ what are you basing this on, your cousins giving out, the irish past time lol.
People are leaving the farms as the lifestyle is ****
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If you are on minimum wage....live in shared accommodation ....mind blowing stuff
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You seem very personally aggrieved that people don't share your world view. What happened to people acting like adults and discussing things calmly and without being so snarky?
It's a simple fact that people managed to get much more, in regard to housing, working lower income jobs not so long ago, and now at best they can hope to share a house with people. That's a massive step backwards, yet you think otherwise because of the internet and technology? You seem to only care about what you want and not what others want, which is your right, but at the same time you can't make such affirmative statements about life being better just because of your own preferences, especially when certain life qualities are measurable, and the outcome of the measurement doesn't align with your views.
“The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”-― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov5 -
I'll leave it here, because you keep ignoring the points I make, just to repeat your own. That's not any kind of reasonable discussion.
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Because your points were my cousins said this. I could say Tippeary is dying because my sisters complain about it, ive no idea if thats the case im likely wrong but i could still say it due to hearing through the grapevine
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My personal view is the world view in reality. Boards isnt really the world view. Yes during the Celtic tiger, the good old days of full mortgages, i wonder why the world doesnt want to go back to that. If you think the only thing that has improved is tech, well............
Can a laborer buy a house in Galway, no
Should a laborer be able to buy a house in one of the most sought after cities in the world, no
Now can that laborer and say a friend/lover/partner buy a house by pooling together, sure. It would be hard, but once again buying a house should **** be hard not handed out to every idiot who can get a massive mortage they cannot pay
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Why should someone working full time not be able to aspire to own a home where they are from??
Seems a reasonable proposition to me,otherwise,it should fall upon the state to provide it for em......even the worst of victorian capitalists could see the benefits in housing the poor
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And if they earn far below the average income for that area? How do they afford the asking prices for those places, or compete with others who do make enough money to afford those areas.
Be realistic.
In all countries, as property costs rise (not just prices), people are pushed outwards. It's why suburbs exist, and as time passes, those suburbs become more expensive/valuable, pushing people further out towards areas that are more affordable (or less desirable). It's the way it works everywhere.. it's just in Ireland that people think it shouldn't apply to them (Dubliners in particular).
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Does seem a bit mad that people who never work or worked can get a flat - council gaff near stephens green or in rathmines for a nominal amount out of their welfare where as joe bloggs working 40-50 hours a week in the area cant get or afford a place to live in those areas or anywhere close to those areas
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It's all out of control. It has been out of control for years now, it's just the cracks are starting to show at last.
Minimum wage is just unliveable when coupled with the housing crisis. Unless you've managed to avoid being on the receiving end of the housing crisis, this is only going to get worse from here on out.
There are too many people in the country, forcing wages down for many, while simultaneously providing price pressure on every facet of housing, be it social, rental, or simply trying to buy. That's one of the very serious factors at play here.
This isn't some covert attack on migrants, it has nothing to do with them at all. It's all about the very serious issues facing Irish people and their quality of life and migration happens to be significant. It is nothing personal, even though it is always portrayed as such.
The feelings and emotions and righteousness put to the forefront on media, including internet forums, is simply not going to pay your rent, it's not going to improve your working conditions, it's not going to improve school access, hospital care access and so forth. It's crunch time, it's time to get very serious about practical life and challenge the leadership's (government or otherwise) that are, plain as the nose on your face, making your life tangibly, measurably worse with their utterly insane ideas.
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It is an attack on migrants. You are literally using the dog whistle of arguments of Farage and the Brexiteers over in England. “Ireland is full! They are takin our jeeebs!”
Firstly we have one of the least densely populated countries in Europe and Dublin is a low density city.
Secondly those migrants are crucial to the function of our country from hospitals to picking fruit to…. Building homes. And just as Brexiteers have discovered when they go to an understaffed A&E and understocked supermarkets the issue of housing or access to public services are all made worse without migrants.
Finally you critique emotive arguments yet you feel entitled to speak for all “Irish people”. The reality is you speak for an element of Irish Society we always had who seem to have a grotesque sense of self entitlement. Alway focused on what other people might take from them vs actually what they can contribute to society. Unlike migrants who contribute every day with less unemployed/underemployed than the “Native Irish”.
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Boring.
Every last one of your attempts is old hat.
"We have one of the least densely populated country's". Yeah, well the tip of Everest is scanty too. The housing crisis would like a word with you.
"We need migrants for businesses". Yes, because we don't have an equal , sustainable economy. If you need to pay rates that only Italians will take, then your business is in the wrong country. It's a failed business propped up by imported labour that negatively impacts employment for native employees.
"We need migrants for the hospital system". No, we have imported cheaper labour for our hospitals and undercut national staff to the point where it is. Crisis. That's why many are simply graduating in ireland and are on the first plane out of here.
"We need migrants to build homes". And how has that genius plan been working out for, oh, the last decade?Prices falling every year? More availability every year? Proof is in the pudding. Everyone needs a place to live, migrants don't retire to the clouds every night.
I speak to the simplest thing in the world, numbers. They don't add up. They EVIDENTLY don't add up. It is nothing but a gigantic pyramid scheme of ever-increasing cost to the many, and ever-increasing profitability to the few.
Hence the measurably increasing inequality in the country.
What do you have to say about needing 4 million more migrants by 2050 to prop up pensions? Does that sound like some kind of well reasoned system, or is it just really an exemplar of buffoonery? How about that for a "dog whistle" to insanity and failed ideas?
Just imagine a country like Germany, population of 80 million, needing an additional 70 million people to keep going within 30 years. Madness. Pure and utter failure.
But sure, tell people more about the necessity of more and more people brought into a country that has less and less to go around. Keep telling them it's a great thing and is making their lives better every year.
It is no mystery at the end of the day. More people, finite resources, poorer outcome for all.
And it isn't all the fault of extra people in the country. There are other factors, naturally, but migration is up there in top two or three.
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I never said the state shouldnt provide for those people, ive no issue with social housing. i would be pro social housing and believe it should be extended to a higher income level. Ive a issue with people on low incomes getting mortages they cant afford ala the tiger days. Which were fake better days
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Firstly we have one of the least densely populated countries in Europe and Dublin is a low density city.
And why is that? The focus on houses, as opposed to apartments which are more common in other cities. Dublin sprawls. The overall area of Dublin takes up the space of foreign cities far greater in terms of population.
As for the Irish population, we have good population for the existing economy. The one time Ireland had a higher population, we were an agrarian society, with poverty, malnutrition, and eventually a famine. For Ireland of the present day, we have State services struggling to cover the needs of the existing population, with no clear idea or expectation of improving what exists. If anything most projections show a decline in services, as more attention is taken away from the countryside and placed on the cities instead. Which has proved a terrible idea from what's happened in other European nations who have experienced the same shift in services, and population migration.
Increase the population of Ireland... but where are all the new resources, and revenue streams (diverse business portfolio) to employ that population with sufficient incomes for them to live in a high-cost environment (as the increased services will need further funding before the increased population become productive) and there's no real guarantee that will translate into a better, stronger or more stable economy.
Secondly those migrants are crucial to the function of our country from hospitals to picking fruit to…. Building homes. And just as Brexiteers have discovered when they go to an understaffed A&E and understocked supermarkets the issue of housing or access to public services are all made worse without migrants.
Then by the same logic we will never have the population to be self-sufficient, and will always need to have ever greater numbers of migrants to meet the demands of those industries... 1+1=2. It's not hard to see the problem here. Each increase, demands an increase in population, which further demands an increase in industry.. and... we're still an island with limited space. It's simply short-term thinking, and will lead us into the trap of being reliant on foreign workforces, but ultimately will lead us into ruin. Overpopulation, excess production, pollution, etc
If anything we should be scaling back our population needs, investing in the technology that allows a smaller population to operate our economy efficiently, and therefore, improve the chance that Ireland remains mostly pollution free. The added benefit of a high life expectancy, and general quality of life, because we're not desparately trying to meet the needs of a population that we're unable to adequately support.
The US, China, or nations with heaps of natural resources (and land) can manage such population growth for extended periods, but Ireland can't.
Unlike migrants who contribute every day with less unemployed/underemployed than the “Native Irish”.
And yet, you have no issue doing what you claim the other poster to be doing. Almost 50% of nigerians are unemployed. Can't remember the exact figure but it's like 48/52 one way or the other. Think on that for a moment. So, your all migrants contributing is rubbish.
Also there are a wide range of reports regarding the monies sent out through Western Union and others, which means that large portions of salaries are not being spent in this country, contributing to the Irish economy, but are being sent abroad to other nations. That's a real and serious drain.. but nah, it'll be fine. Therein is the problem though. Whenever these problems are raised, they're dismissed as being unimportant.. because people want to believe that all migrants are a net positive.. but they're not. Even when migrants are working, many of them are drawing on income supplements to maintain their lifestyles, or availing of services provided by NGOs (who are supported by the State).
There were solid reasons for Brexit to occur. The UK has serious problems with it's society, both for natives and for migrant populations. There's been no real and consistent approach towards integration, and social unrest by 2nd/3rd/4th gen migrant families born in the UK but feeling that they belong to neither culture.. these are real problems that were often dismissed as the government not doing enough, but no practical or successful answers to these problems have come about. The problems remain generation after generation, deferred to someone else to fix.
Oh, don't get me wrong. I think Brexit was utterly idiotic and suicidal. The UK is going to tear itself apart because of what happened, but they were going to do that anyway under the "melting pot" of cultures that haven't integrated or assimilated. Just as their economy has been stumbling with their social spending.. an issue that Ireland is already starting to experience.
So.. don't dismiss everything as being nonsense directed at migrants... because we do need to have some hard conversations about Ireland, it's economy, and what kind of population we want in 30-40 years time. Do we really want to be experiencing the problems that France, Denmark, and Sweden are experiencing right now? Cause we're following almost exactly with how they approached immigration, and foreign populations.. so why should it be different for us?
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I would agree with you,esp around limits for social housing (and hap),they havnt been updated in years and years....feel fundamentally,upto 40% of population will ultimately need housing on current trends
And the unsuitable mortgage issue,just i feel inherently house prices are too high,by as much as 75%....all these expensive houses,ultimately serve no purpose greater than cheaper houses
Theres adbandoned cottages making 125K where im from,these would cost as much again to modernise/livable,so are effectively being bought as vastly overpriced sites
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You're right, migration is the cause of all our issues, so we should ban emigration. That way our own national staff will fill all the jobs and there'll be no need for any migrants. Taxes will decrease because all salaries will be spent in the economy, more disposable income and a sustainable rate of population increase will make housing more affordable. Everybody wins.
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Lazy irish bastids. Looking for a decent wage with massive increasesin living costs. How dare they. Not every migrant contributes you know. Just like some irish dont .
Even the migrants dont want to work theses jobs anymore due to shite wages. Think post covid has proven that.
Post edited by Mr. teddywinkles on1 -
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Migration is not the single issue. But it is very significant.
Migration is net inward, so banning emigration isn't going to have much of an effect. Even with the outstanding problems in place, basically no available housing etc, people keep arriving.
It's quite a complicated thing all round. What you're really looking for is an equalisation within all facets of the country, something that has been deeply upset via external exposure.
In other words, it's not going to be easy, painless or quick.
The likes of businesses reliant on cheap imported labour just have to be let die, adjust, move out of the way for other sustainable business. Temporary subsidies perhaps. But there's no easy way to wean off cheap labour.
And so on. Very, very complicated.
But it's either tackle it now, or tackle a bigger problem later. There is no avoiding this.
You just cannot keep pretending that more people need more people need more people need more people ad infinitum. We need 200 million more migrants to look after the 100 million more migrants that are needed to look after the 70 million migrants to look after the 50 million migrants......because we needed 4 million migrants by 2050...in a country the size of Ireland. People genuinely don't question this.
All this talk about conservation and sustainability, yet the least sustainable practice ever seen in this country is given a free pass. Practically invisible.
But reducing the population is where the answer lies. Doesn't matter who, danish berserkers or pygmy tribesman, it only matters how many.
After all, is it easier to build an entire house with teams of people over a year with costs and labour and materials and effort...or some guy rubber-stamping a denial on a bit of paper? Which will make a more efficient, quicker impact on housing scarcity?
Minimum wage living in many parts of this country must be unliveable, many more following hot on their heels. There's no juice left in this squeeze.
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And just there the taoiseach at the cork chamber states that the "dramatic" increase in population from the 1990's is the single biggest contributor to the housing crisis.
Well, I never!
Of course it's dressed up with all sorts, but there's admittance happening. Including the mysterious meetings between the housing Minister and shmidt regarding EU movement and certain rights.
Shocking, I tells you. The broken narrative that housing and migration are not connected is on it's last legs. You can't duck and dive reality forever.
It's all connected, unliveable wages, unaffordability, housing, healthcare, schools...everything. Commonality.
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Where did anyone say that housing and migration are not connected?
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Like, literally a few posts above??
You'd need to be off your rocker not to have seen the defence force against linking migrants (whoever they may be) and the likes of the housing situation for bloody years now.
All deflection was put on the ridiculous dead end mantra of "just build more houses!"
"No, no, migration is only ever positive news. Nothing to see here."
Maybe you've lived under a stone, I don't know.
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Are house prices too high, i dont think so based on supply and demand, 75% is way to much of a overprice, its not that much
The biggest issue i can see is we lost a generation of builders...maybe two due to the tiger collapsing.
And now people dont want to get involved in the industry. The amount of houses will never be built unless this is fixed.
It doesnt matter who is in government
Like i know one or two lads my age thats involved in construction, at 18 i knew 30 but like myself they went to University or got work in different fields
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Supply and demand deosnt apply to a market,where forgien investment funds with infinite demand and funds can force people from the market and extort money from the natives
People on average wage,cant afford to buy an average home,looks obvious to me,easy to extract from above data,that prices are too high and a 75% reduction is reasonable to aspire for
The technology surronding rapid builds/modular and icf should in theory collapse the time-frame,labour requirement and costs surronding building houses....(ideally the state should build/force nationise an insulation factory and manufacture our own for new builds/icf and subsidise retrofit every house in state)
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There are insane prices going for houses which we would have considered badly built thirty years ago... that's one of the problems. The focus has shifted away from the quality of construction to simply owning a house in a relatively desirable location.
We really need to a tier system in regards to housing, and the range of pricing attached to them. That way everyone has something within reach of their income levels. It might not be perfect, but people really need to get past this irrational expectation of a perfect house (that they haven't built for themselves, or are not prepared to pay the money for). Your point about modular housing or modular apartments fits perfectly into that..
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I entirely agree with a tiered system and much much more regulation upon the market and the spec/size of houses being built is farcial (i speak about rural monsters as some in my area are closer to hotels than homes)
Even large scale,very low cost apartment blocks in every town/reasonable sized village should be looked at.....
while soviet era apartment blocks are rightly mocked as being grim,to my eyes its a better option than renting endless hotel rooms and forcing families to live in em....if people want fancier/better homes,let em pay/build em,but have a base standred always available that noone is allowed fall under,be that apartment blocks/houses etc
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Not so sure about regulation.. one of the big problems with the housing market is that the government or local councils already have too much control over what happens. TBH I'd love to see the State remove itself from the housing market, allowing consumerism to reassert some control. The tiered system on quality falls naturally into such a consumer focused system.. whereas the regulatory influence of the State tends to stifle it. It's one of the reasons so many people want to stop being landlords.. the State has made it a horrible experience to perform yearly.
As for soviet era apartments, I stayed in one twenty years ago, for a month, and I have very fond memories. Amazing soundproofing and the heat rising from below was sublime. but yeah, people would complain too much about them here, even though they'd actually be a step up over many of the apartment blocks around.
I'd love to see Ireland embrace a bit of modern construction for apartments. My own apartment in Xi'an. 24 floors tall, mine is on the 10th (I'm afraid of heights), four large apartments per floor, two underground levels for parking, and full facilities including a dentist, doctor, supermarket, dry cleaners and a cinema in the apartment tower beside us. Not expensive either. Not wonderful finish, but no bad cracks and appears stable. haha.
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It does seem wring that people who never work or are involved in crime get more or less free houses ( nominal amount out of their welfare) whilst those contributing to society paying taxs or who worked for 20/30 years cant get anywhere.
The never worked a day in their life family who are Irish are out breeding the working family Irish and migrant hand over fist and get everything unquestioned .
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