Saorview problems?

muffler

So I think I read that Saorview channels are carried on 2 different muxes (?). At the moment I can view RTE1, RTE1 +1, RTE2 +1, VM3, RTE JUnior (I think). All the other channels are either missing or the picture just breaks up. Im only about 1.4km from the transmitter with a clear line of sight and have 2 aerials. One is for picking up the terrestrial Freeview from NI and given the proximity to the Saorview transmitter also doubles up for it. The other aerial is for Saorview only but in both cases I am experiencing the loss of signal as stated.

I find it hard to believe that both aerials and associated cables could be faulty in some way so Im thinking that maybe there is something wrong with the transmitter. From past experience its a complete waste of time contacting Saorview as you just get fobbed off. The transmitter is at Ballybofey, Donegal.

Any suggestions or ideas as to what the issue might be?

mackersdublin

Mux 1 carries RTE2 and the other channels you can't receive

Mux 2 carries RTE One and the other channels you listed

It must be a Aerial problem if you are only receiving One Mux correctly

There's no mention on Saorview's website or their Twitter a/c about any works

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119015358#Comment_119015358

Thanks for the reply.

Normally Id agree that its an aerial problem (and could well be so) but I find it odd that both aerials could have issues. Admittedly one is pointing at a Freeview transmitter in NI but this aerial was always able to pick up the Saorview channels. The strange thing is that it comes and goes. Picture / reception is fine for weeks at a time then it breaks up for a couple of weeks and after that is rinse and repeat.

Would weather conditions play a part? In the past I have always had problems during "high pressure" periods in the weather and indeed Saorview did confirm at one stage that atmospheric conditions would affect reception.

The Cush

Are the 2 aerial feeds combined? If so, how?

Issues like this can also be caused by a bad connection/equipment somewhere in the setup. In the last few days here my brother was having issues with Saorview reception, fault narrowed down to a number of faulty outputs on a passive 6 output splitter.

petronius

Polarity (vertical / Horizontal) could also be an issue? depends on which ariel you are pointing to

https://ukfree.tv/maps/saorview

https://ukfree.tv/transmitters/tv/Limavady

https://ukfree.tv/transmitters/tv/Brougher_Mountain

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119018027#Comment_119018027

Both aerials have separate cables going to different rooms. One goes to a TV in the sitting room and the other to a TV in the kitchen. Both aerials are fixed to the chimney.

Of course there is every chance that the aerials and / or cables have developed faults but the puzzling part is that both have developed reception issues at the same time and while the current problems are ongoing there is every possibility that things will return to normal within a week or so based on past experiences. If things do improve again then the problems are not on my end. If they dont then I will need to get someone in to sort it out.

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119020537#Comment_119020537

What are the signal strength/quality readings like on both TVs for Saorview?

Ger Roe

In one post OP, you asked about weather conditions... if it has been a problem in the past with high pressure, it could be so again. Here in Wicklow and aimed at the Kippure transmitter, we used to have fairly regular summer atmos issues with the old analog service. Since the changeover it has been far less frequent, but there have been a handful of times when high pressure has caused interference from other out of area signals (coming from UK). They have been so infrequent and short term that they are not an issue, but it can still happen.

The other potential source of the problem might be some local equipment causing interference on the frequency for one of the muxes. This could be something very local (even within the house), or it might be more widespread - has anyone else around you had the same problem recently?

Another thing to check ... are you using the correct antenna? Some of the transmitter sites have changed frequency (antenna group) since launch.

This is almost certainly a reception, rather than a transmission issue.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119021849#Comment_119021849

Just a little clarification on my set up. I'll refer to the Freeview and Saorview as FV and SV. There are quite a few cables at the back of the TV in the sitting room ie. satellite and aerial cables which is the main point of entry for the lot. The FV cable comes out from the wall socket and into a booster/splitter yoke with 4 outputs from it. 3 of those go back upstairs to bedrooms and the fourth one goes out to the kitchen located directly behind the sitting room. None of the upstairs outputs are used these days.

From what I can see the SV cable coming into the sitting room goes directly into a Freeview box (Manhatten recording box) and is then connected to the TV via HDMI cable. Just to note that there's probably only about 10 degree difference in the direction of the 2 aerials on the rooftop so both aerials do pick up FV and SV.

Signal test on TV in sitting room (signal coming through FV box.) Channel 44... Strength = 93-94, Quality = 66-68. Channel 47 ... Strength = 98, Quality = 100.

Signal test on TV in kitchen (FV aerial feed/split as described above) Channell 44 ... Strength = 74-78, Quality = 67 - 100. Channel 47 ... Strength = 93, Quality = 100.

Finally and not surprisingly all SV channels are working fine this afternoon. Hadnt checked them since last night when most were off.

Digifriendly

I have found keeping aerial cables completely separate from all other leads and cables can make a difference especially if signal is on cliff edge as is the case with at least one of my Saorview muxes.

muffler

I checked with my neighbour yesterday evening and she is having the same issues. Because of those issues in the past she got 2 new aerials fitted less than 2 years ago but it didn't help.

There is never a problem with the Freeview reception so would that not rule out any suggestion that the equipment is faulty?

Elvis Hammond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119026827#Comment_119026827

Did the same guy fit the neighbour's aerials? Probably installer shortcomings, if that's the case; I wonder were alternative sites tried, like Letterkenny or Holywell Hill.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119027336#Comment_119027336

2 different installers used. Im not sure if there is a transmitter about Letterkenny but if there was it wouldnt be possible to receive a signal from there due to the hilly terrain. Holywell Hill would be the same.

The FV mast in Strabane is about 20km away and the SV transmitter is 1.4km. As stated earlier there is never a problem with the FV signals but is there a chance that the SV signal is too strong given the proximity to the transmitter?

Elvis Hammond

Ballybofey is fairly low powered, so I'd doubt overload would be a problem solely due to being that distance away. Letterkenny has 20 times the power, Holywell 200 times, so might have a chance even if terrain isn't 100% favourable.

dxhound2005

https://ukfree.tv/transmitters/tv/Ballybofey

"The symbol shows the location of the Ballybofey (Republic of Ireland) transmitter. The bright green areas shown where the signal from this transmitter is strong, dark green areas are poorer signals. Those parts shown in yellow may have interference on the same frequency from other masts."

There is quite a bit of yellow on that map. I don't know where else Channels 44 and 47 would be coming from to cause interference. Replace Ballybofey in the URL with Holywell_Hill and Letterkenny to see what those maps show. Obviously try those transmitters anyway to see what you get.

https://www.2rn.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/2RN-DTT-Television-Transmission-Network-Sept-2019-Rev.1.2.pdf

The Cush

2 separate aerials and neighbour having similar issues on the same frequency would seem to indicate an external problem with one of the muxes.

Is it possible to access the SV aerial yourself and realign it to the transmitter? The aerial should be vertically polarised.

A Group K is now recommended, what aerial is installed?

Elvis Hammond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058244179/saorview-problems

The 'clear line of sight' bit didn't register with me first time around, & at that distance you'll be able to actually see the mast. Now, it probably won't be putting out full power in all directions; could be very little some ways, depending on its intended coverage area. What does Saorview's coverage checker say about your location?

Getting back to signal overload, I'd say it would only be a problem if there's an amplifier in there you don't know about.

Frequency changes were mentioned; I think it's always used chs. 44 & 47 for Saorview, although analogue was 54, 58, & 64.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119030332#Comment_119030332

As Im located just 1.4km from the Ballybofey transmitter I am in the bright green area. I checked the Letterkenny and Holywell Hill coverage areas and Im not in their catchment area so it would be impossible to get a signal from either.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119030815#Comment_119030815

Sorry, no idea what type of aerial it is but I'll get a photo later and put it up.Just as Im typing i went to the Google streetview and grabbed a shot. Hopefully thats clear enough. My aerials are on the left and the neighbours on the right. There's 2 FV and 1 SV aerial on my chimney. The 2nd FV aerial has been redundant for years. As to going up on the roof ... not a chance!

Elvis Hammond

You must be to the NW of the Ballybofey tx then, going by that, which would be right in its intended service area.

You say the aerial feeds aren't combined, which I suppose would be due to Strabane's pre-700MHz clearance channels, so the boxes on the masts must be amplifiers for Strabane?

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119031004#Comment_119031004

The SV coverage checker is just stalling for me but I have looked at this in the past and I get / should get a perfect signal from the Ballybofey mast.

Not sure about the amplifier. There is one for the FV but not for the SV. if thats what you are asking. The channel numbers have been the same (44 & 47) for a long time.

On a general note the SV signals were all going well yesterday but today its back to just being able to see RTE1, VM3 and whatever other channels on the mux.

Im reluctant to contact Saorview as I have found them to be pretty useless in past dealings. However I might check with a couple of other neighbours to see what they are experiencing and if they have the same issues then it might be time to organise a wee petition.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119032102#Comment_119032102

I would be located NW of the mast alright. The boxes you mention on the poles have been there for a long time. I never really knew what they were for ... actually I thought they were used just to shield a cable connection from the weather. That sums up my knowledge of these things.

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119032110#Comment_119032110

Saorview will probably tell you to contact a local aerial installer to check out the setup but they might have some operational info on the transmitter too.

I wonder if a single hi-gain aerial could replace all 3 aerials on the roof, removing some of those cables and connections.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119032552#Comment_119032552

I'll knock on a couple of other neighbours doors this week to see what their experience is. If they have the same problems I might organise a wee petition/letter to Saorview. I think its probably safe to say at this stage that the issues are not of my / our doing so I wouldnt be happy about forking out money for a new installation when it wouldnt improve matters just like my neighbour experienced.

Contacting a local installer was what Saorview told me in the past but if its their problem then I think they need to sort it.

Glaceon

You might have better luck with 2RN rather than Saorview as they operate the network. nmc@2rn.ie or 01 208 2259.

muffler

Thanks for that. Hopefully they might be a bit more helpful.

muffler

So today I turned on the telly to watch the lunchtime news and RTE1, which has been fine over the last couple of weeks, was terrible. Checked VM3 and it was the same. Then I discovered that the other channels I was having bother viewing recently were all OK again. Just to make things more confusing ALL the SV channels appear to be working fine this evening??? The mind or the aerial boggles!

We had heavy rain all morning and right through to late afternoon so I have no idea if that had any bearing on matters.

dxhound2005

You took signals readings before. It would be a good to make a note of the readings regularly. A "perfect" picture is just the same from a 100% signal as one just above the level where it breaks up or disappears. If you do decide to change anything, you would need to see the before and after readings to judge the effect.

There haven't been threads recently, but there are a good few going back a while where one of the Mux's goes missing. Depending on the individual set up, and the transmitter involved it can be 1 or 2. It is always down to the particular set up, not a transmitter fault.

selfbuilder1

Just wondering have you got to the bottom of this. I am having the same problem in Mayo with the signal from Maghera. I am able to receive RTE1 and the other channels that are on MUX 2 but all the channels on MUX 1 are either missing or break up constantly. This has only happened recently and i can't figure out what the problem is.

muffler

Unfortunately I didn't get any more done about it. I've been meaning to call with a few other neighbours to see how theirs is doing but haven't got that far yet. Its hit and miss for the last while with the likes of RTE1, VM3 etc going well one day with the others "off" and then a couple of days later the roles are reversed. No logic to it.

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119170091#Comment_119170091

As this only happened recently I would look at something in your setup, bad connection somewhere, aerial misaligned, corrosion in the aerial to cable connection, faulty splitter/amp etc.

Longwayjump1991

I have Saorview on a TCL Android TV. Channels 1 to 6 work fine (RTÉ One, 2, TG4, VMTV’s) and channel 23 (Sky News) is fine. For some weird reason RTÉ one plus 1, 2 plus one, RTÉ jr and RTÉ News all freeze, the picture freezes but the sound carries on. Why is this?...

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119241524#Comment_119241524

Weird one alright, normally a fault will be on one frequency or the other, but the channels you list with/without a fault are across the two muxes.

External Saorview network issue or internal TV processing issue.

I would suggest a full power down followed by a retune.

JimmyCorkhill

Having similar problems to those mentioned in the thread in the holiday home in Wicklow.

RTE 1 is generally fine but RTE 2 can be real hit & miss, the picture can freeze even though the sound will carry on as normal or just black out. The other channels on the same muxes as RTE 2 also are affected. Its not all the time but often enough to be annoying.

Separately but possibly somewhat related, the satellite channels we had, loads seemed to have disappeared since last summer and those that are there, seem to go in sequence of 1, 5, 7 10 etc.

Got an aerial & satellite installed by a reputable installer from Wicklow last year.

Wondering have some of the settings changed in the last year and maybe that explains the missing channels on the satellite and the intermittent issues with RTE 2?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119465649#Comment_119465649

What Saorview transmitter is recommended for your location, have a look at the Saorview coverage checker.

What signal strength and quality readings is the TV's internal meter giving you?

What satellite receiver are you using? If it's a basic FTA box then channels can cease or move frequency, in this case a retune may be required to restore missing channels and a resort to get them where you want them. Sky and Freesat boxes do this automatically.

JimmyCorkhill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119465731#Comment_119465731

Hi, thanks for getting back to me. Apologies, I am not very techy, hence why I got an installer in to install the aerial & satellite last Summer.

The LG tv has a built in saorview/freesat tuner afaik, the tv is maybe 8+ years old. There is definitely no box or anything.

I am attaching 3 images:

1. What saorview checker says when I try to check the transmitter.

2. The signal quality/strength/frequency for RTE 1 - which is generally perfect.

3. Same as in point 2 except for RTE 2 - which as we speak has gone into hiding!!!

IMG_20220812_214450.jpg

IMG_20220812_214251.jpg

IMG_20220812_214305.jpg

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119465755#Comment_119465755

Ok, the TV is confirming what the coverage checker is indicating, received signal isn't good.

The frequencies are from the low power Arklow transmitter.

What aerial type is installed and is it pointing towards Arklow, how far between house and transmitter approx?

Maybe a higher gain aerial (+ masthead amp?) could pull in a better signal, e.g. this Blake DMX10A (I have one of these for approx 10 years)

As regards the satellite channels, there is no link between the Saorview and satellite feeds. Is the TV Freesat or just the FTA channels?

JimmyCorkhill

IMG_20220813_065221.jpg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119465998#Comment_119465998

The aerial I got a couple of years ago from freetv and it is a Saorview UHF TV Aerial Kit (Higher Gain).

Attached pic shows aerial & satellite, I would say Yes the aerial is pointing towards Arklow.

Approx 15km to transmitter if it is the Arklow one.

The TV is an LG 32 LN 540U and it says Freeview when I google it. There is a cable from the satellite & aerial going into the back of it.

IMG_20220813_064647.jpg

I am up early this morning, when I sent the pics of the signal strength & quality last night for RTE 1 & 2, below were the percentages.

RTE 1 - Strength - 46%; Quality - 86%

RTE 2 - Strength - 26%; Quality - 0%

This morning they are now showing at:

RTE 1 - Strength - 46%; Quality - 100%

RTE 2 - Strength - 22%; Quality - 92%

As I mentioned it is RTE 2 and the other channels on the same muxe which seem to cause problems from time to time - mayne more so when people are more likely to be watching tv/big game on tv.

I dont have a ladder with me and the aerial/satellite is at a height attached to mobile home, so would struggle to get up and trying to move it ever so slightly looking for a better strength/quality.

What is more important? Signal strength or quality?

I attached two pics, one is not great quality but cannot remove it for some reason.

The Cush

Signal quality is the important figure but you need decent signal strength to reinforce that. Mux 1 signal is way too low for a stable signal and Mux 2 could be better.

First thing to do would be to try realigning the aerial for optimum signal between both muxes but my guess would be little overall improvement. Increasing aerial height would be another option, without knowing the terrain between your location and the transmitter difficult to know what height would see improvement.

The aerial, a Group T or W wideband, probably performs better higher up the frequency range, a Group A specific hi-gain aerial would probably perform better for your location.

Looking around the general area what is the general situation with aerials, height, larger hi-gain aerials, masthead amps fitted to the mast near the aerial etc.

Regarding the TV I'm not sure if its Freesat capable or just a basic FTA satellite tuner, missing channels would indicate FTA and set to Ireland as the country/region. Retuning with the TV's region to UK would ask for a UK postcode on setup for Freesat, if built in, but mess up the order of the Irish channels which would be stored at random in the 800s.

JimmyCorkhill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119466899#Comment_119466899

Thanks for your help & detailed replies.

As I dont even have a ladder down with me, I cant get up to the aerial to play around with it.

Looking at other mobiles in the park I dont see any or many even with masthead amplifiers. A neighbour has said they have had trouble with RTE 2.

I have reached out to the shop/installer that installed it last Summer, the lady in the shop said she would get one of the installers to swing by next week and have a look. He should be able to test the signal without needing access to the TV itself.

Hopefully he can improve the signal.

JimmyCorkhill

Just to update, the installer came out. I wasnt around. He needed to add an amplifier to the aerial and said he needed access to the mobile home itself to do something as part of the fix.

Charged 20 euro for call out as had been out before to install it last year & 60 for amp.

The Cush

At some point post the updated signal numbers again.

JimmyCorkhill

Will do, might be a couple of weeks before Im back down there.

Out of interest is 60 for an amp expensive? Big mark-up?

The Cush

https://www.freetv.ie/saorview/amplifiers/masthead/

https://www.freetv.ie/saorview/amplifiers/aerial-power-unit/

Masthead amp plus power supply, cost depends on the units fitted.

JimmyCorkhill

Posting back here on this thread having posted last year with similar issue.

Mobile home in Wicklow has a satellite & aerial to get Saorview and UK channels. No box or anything as TV in conjunction with aerial & satellite gets channels.

Last year signal on RTE 2 and related channels on same MUX was really bad and would often go black, whereas RTE1 signal was a only bit better but could always view the channel.

Got installer back out last August who added an amplifier to the aerial and a booster inside the mobile which I plug in as well.

I hadn't been back down since last year when he did the job but other family members were and said RTE 2 etc. was back working perfectly after he added the amplifier.

Roll forward to this year and first time for any of us down since last September.

Signal on RTE 2 & related channels is either really fuzzy or no signal at all.

RTE 1 is fine and is showing 100% signal strength & 100% signal quality.

RTE 2 signal strength is showing at 95% whereas signal quality moves between 0% to 15/20%.

It was fine before the Leinster match this afternoon then went bad during the game and has been no signal since.

Is it possible over Winter that either the aerial moved and needs to be realigned or that something else changed?

If anything the trees around the immediate area of the mobile have been cut down lower.

Thanks

The Cush

I remember your post from last year.

If it suddenly degraded it could be a local fault, something like a bad connection or water ingress over time corroding a connection.

Have a look at at all accessible connections, properly pushed-in/secure. Is the aerial to cable connection accessible, ensure the connection is good.

It's possible the aerial may have moved over the winter too but as it degraded suddenly it sounds more like a fault somewhere between aerial and TV.

Regarding the amp and booster, I'm assuming it's a masthead amplifier at the aerial and power supply inside to power the amp over the cable? If so check the connections at these units.

JimmyCorkhill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120621691#Comment_120621691

Thanks for your reply 'The Cush'.

From my understanding, it is a masthead amplifier as it has been attached to the pole holding up the aerial and the booster is inside the mobile and is required to be plugged in.

I unplugged the booster and checked all the cables were firmly in and everything looks ok from that side.

I will probably get back onto the installer and ask him to test it next time he is in the area doing work for someone else.

Maybe, I am expecting too much for it to be able to go a couple of years without there being some sort of issue.

Fake Tales

So to hijack this thread but I'm currently setting up two TV's at my parents house.

One receives the full set of Saorview channels. On the other Mux 1 is missing.

I don't know how it is wired, could it be two cables from an aerial? Although I suspect a splitter it more likely?

What are the possible causes? Signal loss at the splitter? Change it? Anything else to try?

Should I non powered splitter work? I don't think there is power access there.

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120649230#Comment_120649230

Likely to be a single cable from the aerial split with a passive splitter or similar.

Could be a bad connection or weak signal because of the split.

Check any cable connections for security.

If you find the split fit a distribution amp to give the signal a boost. Amplification is best closer to the aerial, to compensate for any loss down the cable to the TV point.

Fake Tales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120649326#Comment_120649326

Thanks. Do all distribution amps need to be powered?

Ger Roe

A word of caution on the coverage checker, where local fill in transmitters are indicated as the best option:

It is not always the case and very much depends on the physical characteristics of your location, this is particularly relevant in Wicklow where local terrain can vary considerably.

I am in a location where I am nearest to the Greystones filler on Kindlestown Hill, Glen O' Downs. This is the suggested best option.

I have two separate tv's using Saorview one with antenna for Greystones and one for the legacy provider signal at Kippure. The Kippure signal is much stronger and the fill in at Greystones is just above borderline service.

In 'challenging' coverage areas, correct antenna grouping and alignment is crucial.