How does Israel Get way with this

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120900535#Comment_120900535

Yes, just look what has happened in the West Bank. The Israeli right really have no interest in a two state solution.

Bobtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120900535#Comment_120900535

Are they total victims? In 1948 there was a two state solution. The Arabs attacked the Jews. They promised to slaughter the Jews in Palestine in 1948.

Thankfully they lost. The Jews did not slaughter the Palestinians who did not flee. They gave them citizenship.

The Arab states around them had told the Arab Palestinians to leave.

After being defeated the Arab states - lovely people these Arabs - really great record od human rights - they expelled their Jews.

Some victims

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120901174#Comment_120901174

Are Israel total victims?

And round and round and round.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120901174#Comment_120901174

The Israelis are still murdering the Arabs and taking their land. All at once or bit by bit its all the same.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119021199#Comment_119021199

I see this pretty much the same way.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120903021#Comment_120903021

Its not the Palestinians building colonies in Israel.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120903033#Comment_120903033

I simply don't like Hamas and Fatah both Palestine, Israel doesn't have that.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120903076#Comment_120903076

If they're caught then they are brought to justice. The IDF get away with murder all the time. Theirs is legalised.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120903076#Comment_120903076

Israel "doesn't have that" because it has the IDF. If you want to go back before the IDF, "Israel" had the Irgun and Haganah.

Bobtheman

Let's get real here. Israel exists. It was a terrible idea but caught on. So I will provide a few principles for a solution based on Realism

1)all Israeli settlements out of the west bank

2) free elections in the west bank and Gaza. A united Palestinian front

3) Israel create a federalist state with Gaza and west bank as provinces. These provinces have restrictions. But it is one federal state

4) under this federal state the president and key ministers are Jews. Movement between provinces are restricted.

4

Bobtheman

Part of the intractable part of Israel is that it's values are not common in the middle east.

Thus neither the west bank or Gaza operates democratically.

You can blame the Jews on this and you might have a point but it would provide moral legitimacy if gaza and the west bank had legitimate government.

Failing that it might be better if both were subsumed into other nations such as Jordan or Jordan

But if I was a Palestinian I'd prefer to be in Israel. That says it all

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120904668#Comment_120904668

Outside the withdrawal out of the west bank, thats possibly one of the worst notions I've read in a long time. The idea that "under this federal state the president and key ministers are Jews" enshrines sectarianism into law.

tayto lover

'But if I was a Palestinian I'd prefer to be in Israel. That says it all'

No that says what someone in Ireland feels without having the living experience of being under Israeli brutality and wishing to have their own jurisdiction.

Overheal

Israeli occupation pouring concrete into Palestinian wells

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/15bdhfd/israeli_occupation_forces_pouring_cement_into/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120908561#Comment_120908561

The nobel IDF strikes again.

Sand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120901174#Comment_120901174

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120904689#Comment_120904689

There is a lot to unpack here. The inherent acceptance that there was a two state solution in 1948 which was undermined by Arab violence...okay, but how did the second state (i.e. Israel) that didn't exist prior to 1948 arise again? Peaceful demonstrations? Please.

There was total terrorism by Zionists prior to 1948. Research the Irgun group and the Stern gang which was so violent in its goals that it continued attacks on the British during WW2, sought alliances with Germany and Italy and carried out massacres of Arab villagers, including execution of prisoners, mutilation and rape. Anything was justified to continue their goal of conquest of Palestine. Even post WW2, Zionist terrorists continued to murder British soldiers and boobytrap their bodies to inflict as much damage as possible. There was no awareness of, empathy for or allowance made by these founding fathers of Israel for the British soldiers they targeted defeating the Germans or liberating Jews in Europe. Just total cruelty and brutality against the British until they withdrew in defeat, drew some lines on a map and gave the Zionists a free hand from 1948 against the Arab civilians.

Membership and indeed leadership of these terrorist groups was no disqualifier from serving in senior roles of the Israeli state that succeeded them. The violence was always initiated by the Zionists who founded Israel. The Arabs were always defending themselves from Zionists - though unsuccessfully. If Israel continues to experience violence it is because their state has been born from violence.

As for Israeli values - the core Israeli value is that it is a jewish supremacist state. Clearly that is not going to be a shared value with its neighbours. And Israel is entirely willing to subvert democratic principles to preserve its core purpose as a jewish supremacist state. Israel with an Arab majority defeats itself.

As for your theoretical question about where a Palestinian might choose to live let me ask you one. Do you think there is a Zionist out there arguing for your interests on Israeli forums in the same way you're arguing for Zionist interests on an Irish forums? That says it all.

Odhinn

Ethnic cleansing over a 40 year period -

"In 1981, Israel declared 12 villages in Masafer Yatta, including the village of Khirbet Tuba as Firing Zone 918-An area spanning 3, 000 hectares of the Masafer Yatta size. In 1999, Israeli military forces invaded Khirbet Tuba and other villages in the firing zone and expelled the residents by force by loading them onto trucks. The residents could return back to their homes thanks to their resistance and campaigning.

 On May 4, 2022, the Israeli Supreme Court ruled in favor of ethnically cleansing eight of these villages. Khirbet Tuba is among of the villages included in the court decision.

The court ruling to force Palestinians from their land in these villages is currently being enforced by Israeli settlers. The most openly fascist and racist current Israeli government has given settlers the green light to invade Palestinian villages in broad daytime. The job of the Israeli army has become to stand behind the settlers, back them and prevent Palestinians from defending themselves while settlers harass and terrorize them."

https://www.stopthewall.org/2023/08/04/palestinians-in-khirbet-tuba-face-increased-settler-attacks/?fbclid=IwAR16erkLAXRcyD84qM2xb_rxmtuERKGU4TNuXmrVJjvVLPQPOp88zu95bbU