LIV Golf Invitational League...... NO Political/Ethical conflict posts, see Post#2

PokeHerKing

Read the charter and DO NOT post like that again here

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119359279#Comment_119359279

They time the leaders to finish on 18 final day

Dodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119359421#Comment_119359421

Revolutionary

slave1

If it ain't broke....

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119359421#Comment_119359421

Sure that means nothing really doesn’t it not? Leaders going into final day can be out of it after a few holes technically

6 players could be finishing exact same time and before you know it the tournament is over before you can take in any of the drama

slave1

Agreed, I wasn't justifying it, just pointing it out

PARlance

What do people think of the "viewing experience" of LIV versus PGA/Sky?

If anything, watching LIV made me appreciate the PGA/Sky coverage a bit more, and actually softened some of the pre-existing criticisms that I had with PGA/Sky. I think it made me appreciate it more.

There's a lot to be said for sitting down for a few hours on a Sunday night and watching a story unfold. Adverts and all... a good chance to throw on the kettle etc. There's no real story with the LIV coverage, it's too much action and not enough narrative imo. You don't get to learn the course etc. I presume they will add shot tracer and yardages in time, but they were certainly lacking.

I think they've obviously tried to capture a younger generation, but youngsters aren't going to watch 5+ hours of golf no matter how action packed it may seem. Golf isn't sexy, no matter how it you pimp it up.

Maybe the money would have been better spent directing it more towards Long Drive events, or a newer format of golf that is predominantly based on long drives, or something like that.

They're trying to put a short skirt and lipstick on what is a middle age man and woman's viewing sport at the end of the day.

I would have had plenty of gripes with commentary, ad breaks, length of rounds etc on the PGA/Sky, but as I say, they've probably softened after seeing the alternative.

Only caveat is that I've only skimmed through one final round of LIV, but it wasn't a good first impression for me and wouldn't be inclined to give it another go.

Pussyhands

I couldn't blame any of them for jumping ship to LIV.

They're already handsomely paid but imagine if you woke up tomorrow and someone from another company said here's 2 million signing bonus and you're going to go from 50k to 200k per year and you won't have any performance reviews and you'll only have to work 3 days a week...everyone would take it.

Rory and Tiger are different because they have or are trying to build legacies in the game and it's less about the money for them.

The jump in money reminds me of the Chinese money in football. Average players getting massive money but it eventually stopped.

Saudi PIF surely doesn't have a bottomless pit to continue this funding?

Richard Hillman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119359863#Comment_119359863

I have only watched 10-20 minute bursts. I like the format. There's more happening, they have constant scoreboard (which broadcasters don't like because you have to stay watching), no ads, and the coverage seems a bit lighter and less formal.

I cant stand Sky Golf anymore. Ewen Murray with his prerehearsed lines for winning putts, the OTT psycho-analysis, the obsession with the players family lives etc. That's before we get to made up nonsense of phrases like "unlock the course", "the course is starting to bite back".

Saying all that, I agree with you about the target market. Golf is a middle aged sport. Anyone trying to market it to young people is fighting a losing battle.

I think Sky will revamp their coverage next year to go for the "youth" market. Get celebrities involved more. So they'll both be chasing a non market. They've done this in Cricket and it has been a disaster.

The Netflix thing is now going to be very interesting. Half of those guys are gone to LIV or are on their way. So the PGA went and showboated a bunch of personalities, who are now saying the PGA system is rubbish, LIV is where it's at.

FixdePitchmark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119360341#Comment_119360341

I hate ...I mean hate celebrity golf.

I'm here to watch players do things I can't, not some retired footballer or soap star .

Go away from me....

Agree with points above , golf is for people who don't do other stuff anymore.

People on forum here are exceptions and into golf...but full golf, it isn't for young people no matter how much everyone LIV and the RandA tell you.....

Captain_Crash

I watched bit of both LIV events so far (it’s only been two hasn’t it?) and I enjoyed it, it was a nice change from what’s normally on. Now would I stop watching the PGA for LIV? No chance! And I’d like to think if I was an established player I’d favour staying on the PGA tour. For me the PGA has been acting a bit pot/kettle/black over all this and I don’t see how both events can’t live side by side! I have no issue with any player going over and if good golf is on show I’ll watch regardless!

Deeper Blue

Should the PGA tour just team up with LIV at this point? Scrap some of the rubbish events like this week's and replace them with the LIV events. LIV isn't going anywhere I don't think and it's only going to get stronger. PGA should nearly just hedge their bets at this stage.

Russman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119361182#Comment_119361182

I think that's one of the PGA Tour's biggest gripes, that they may lose a few non-descript events, that nobody except for the host town/state really cares about. I guess they have a point too, a tour event would be a huge money spinner for a town or city, especially if, with their rules, the top players will eventually have to play that event. Which I suppose leads back to the question, if the product (ie this weeks event) isn't really any good, should the Tour have a say in whether another product enters the market ?

slave1

It's a fair point but I think it's deeper, the PGA have world golf controlled, they do not want to share that control, the only half decent threat to the PGA tour was the EuroDP and that is now a feeder tour in all but name

Russman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119362556#Comment_119362556

Very true. A large part of it is about control.

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119361182#Comment_119361182

I would have thought that the PGA are fairly content with the way things have gone so far. I can't imagine partnering up would even be entering the equation for them.

They've lost a few big players but they would have expected that and expected those who switched to be the most obvious candidates.

I think the PGA will be fairly happy with the overall lack of traction LIV has achieved. LIV mightn't be going anywhere, but at this moment, it's also not going anywhere fast.

Unless LIV start to get some momentum going, a second wave of shock / high profile signings, I think the PGA will be fairly content with the state of play.

Mushy

Seemingly the teams are going to start being sponsored.

youcancallmeal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119362966#Comment_119362966

I was thinking they are going to have to start getting money in to make it sustainable. I'd assume their next step is stop having it free to air on youtube/facebook etc and get onto subscription sports tv as that's where the real money/growth is. Probably not Sky Sports in UK&I but maybe BT Sports

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119362942#Comment_119362942

I think LIV will gain traction before next season kicks off proper, guys will be hedging their bets until the FedEx is over and then we might see a number of profile players on the LIV rota

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119362942#Comment_119362942

They've lost some of the biggest names in the game. No idea how you could view it in a good light from the PGAs perspective tbh.

Dodge

Individual players don’t push the needle in the US. Tiger is the only one they have to keep

Irish players would get noticed here and you could say that for a couple of countries but the Cam Smith, Koepka etc are all interchangeable however good they can be

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363051#Comment_119363051

No idea how you think I'm saying that the PGA are viewing LIV in a good light.

I'm talking in the context of LIV being a real thing, a potential real threat to the PGA.

Obviously the PGA would prefer if LIV never existed but given that it has launched, I think the PGA will be relatively content with developments to date.

Not happy, not seeing them in a good light but I think they'll view it as being a case of damage limitation so far and will be relieved that there has been no major shock transfers over to LIV, reasonably content with public and player reactions in general and reasonably content with the media backing / lack of positive media attention for LIV.

My response was in relation to a post that suggeted that maybe it's time for the PGA to sit down and negotiate / work out a solution with LIV.

Context is key.

Mushy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363015#Comment_119363015

Wonder would splitting the golf audience really make the tv deals as lucrative anymore. It'll be something that'll affect the PGA too next time the rights come up. It may be one area that'll be a good part of LIV, forcing better coverage

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119361182#Comment_119361182

Replacing this weeks PGA event with a LIV event probably isn't something that LIV want either.

It's always going to be a low-key week because of The (British) Open. Players come back late from a different continent, many take this week off or just turn up to fulfil sponsor commitments and don't try too hard. So this weeks PGA event is probably just perfect for everyone. Even the Open Championship people wouldn't be happy if there was a huge LIV or PGA/WGC event this week.

Dodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363331#Comment_119363331

The only deal that matters to the PGA is their domestic deal and that’s already split

Richard Hillman

If you go by the PGA's move the needle/player impact rankings

1. Tiger - Barely plays anymore

2. Phil - 50 odd and plays with LIV

3. Rory - Will stay at PGA

4. Spieth - Will stay at PGA

5. Bryson - Gone to LIV

6. Thomas - Will stay at PGA

7. DJ - LIV

8. Brooks - LIV

9. Rahm - PGA. Haven't heard much from him though in regard to LIV

10. Bubba - Likely going to LIV

So they've lost 4 (likely 5) of their top 10 players of public note. Then they have Tiger who can't play anymore.

All LIV need now is a few more tier 2 guys. The likes of Cantlay, Cameron Smith, etc to build depth.

They cant rely on McIlroy, Thomas, Spieth and Rahm to rock up every week for the 3M Classic and other events that nobody remembers after a day or two.

slave1

Spieth and JT are very close, if one goes so will the other

SeeMoreBut

So they've got another big name. Stenson stripped of Ryder Cup captain.

Another player over the hill.

Will Chase keep his spot on tour?

Motivator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119357865#Comment_119357865

And he’s a prod

slave1

"In light of decisions made by Henrik in relation to his personal circumstances, it has become clear that he will not be able to fulfil certain contractual obligations to Ryder Cup Europe that he had committed to prior to his announcement as captain on Tuesday 15 March , 2022, and it is therefore not possible for him to continue in the role of captain.

Confirmation of the new 2023 European Ryder Cup captain will be made in due course. Ryder Cup Europe will be making no further comment on any aspect of the process until that time."

Motivator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119359863#Comment_119359863

I disagree with you totally regarding golf being a middle aged sport. That’s no longer the case in my eyes. I don’t have facts or figures but only what I see myself.

My home club has a steady flow of juniors and young adult members for the last 15 years. There are now almost 50 junior members in the club and when I was a junior member, I was one of six. That’s not just my club, all local clubs have a thriving junior scene and that’s apparently the case across the country. Woods started to make golf more appealing and now the likes of McIlroy, Koepka, Spieth and Thomas have continued that on. The clothes have changed and become more attractive to younger audiences over time, the appeal has definitely widened and if you look at the Irish open a few weeks ago, the amount of young people that were in attendance was incredible.

Sky Sports also do a good job of appealing to the younger generation. The hot topic on our putting green most weeks is the ball speed Dechambeau generated in such and such a tournament or McIlroy’s power fade on hole 12. Sky’s adoption of seemingly gimmicky features is not so gimmicky at all. It appeals to the younger generation and even the older generation. Golf is 100% a changed sport and the initiatives being run by golf Ireland to get girls into the sport as well can only be applauded.

Mushy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363477#Comment_119363477

I more meant a split in the fields, not providers. Cant see any current tv provider paying the same amount now if the offering is dwindled.

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363602#Comment_119363602

Can't argue with a lot of that, golf seems to be growing in a lot of ways and ball speed, stats etc do seem of interest and draw in a younger audience. But my point was in terms of viewership, it's generally a middle aged thing, I think.

I've no data to back that up* but I don't think teenagers / young adults are watching hours of golf on TV... maybe they are, I hope they're not and are instead spending their weekends getting up to young people stuff.

*No data to back it up but if you following the money, as in sponsorship of events, TV adverts during golf coverage etc during golf... The products are generally aimed at an older demographic.

Edit: just did a quick search of "golf viewership demographics" and this was the first result. Haven't looked into it much, maybe it's dated and maybe there's been a significant shift but...

"The demographic profile of the tournament's fan base is that it is predominately male (73.9%), middle aged (63.2% with ages 30-60), well educated (70.1% with a college or graduate degree), and reasonably affluent (51.9% with annual incomes of $100,000 or more)."

dublin49

The golfers need to be careful they don't kill the goose,I would suspect the luke warm supporter like me who tunes in to the Players ,WGCs and Majors and the odd PGA tournament could become disenfranchised by the current situation ,I would never watch a LIV event even if the money was from a well regarded source and most of my interest would be derived from the history of the game,its popularity driven initially by Palmer ,Nicklaus ,Player in conjunction with iconic tournaments that took many decades to gain the prestige they have today.Now if the majority of top golfers are seen to say we don't care about the heritage of the game well then why should I.In essence my point is the golfers are inextricably linked to the current tournaments and its highly presumptuous to assume we will watch them playing new makey up ones with the same interest.

paulanthony

Who do we reckon will replace Stenson as RC Captain?

Richard Hillman

There must have been a lot going on in the background with Stenson. It was becoming clear before The Open that he was going to switch. He could have shown dignity and did it on Monday but waited until he was removed as Captain. With Europe saying specifically "he couldn't fulfill his contractual agreements". I reckon Stenson wasn't/isn't giving it up and is going for legal action.

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363157#Comment_119363157

No major shock moves? Really? I dont agree at all.

Some of their biggest stars have gone to LIV.

Its been an unmitigated dissaster from the PGAs perspective imo.

dublin49

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119364175#Comment_119364175

They saw off Norman before and thought they could do it again ,didn't factor in the bottomless coffers and the now apparent indifference among some to the heritage of the game.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119364105#Comment_119364105

Luke Donald

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119364135#Comment_119364135

My read is that Stenson waiting until after The Open, probably met with them formally on Monday and DP have jumped the gun from the LIV announcement as they can no longer say they signed the current RC captain, I think in that light that Stenson actually showed some respect to the Euro/DP tour

benny79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363527#Comment_119363527

No There not! They both have come out of there support for the PGA same with Rahm these boys definitely wont be going and fair play to them! Cant see Bubba going either sure hes a mad religious head..

Motivator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363661#Comment_119363661

I forgot to add in to my original post that LIV are going after the younger generation now with the quirky video game style graphics, leaderboard and general broadcast. In terms of paying fans, players and Greg Norman dishing out cans and champagne off the balcony of the clubhouse is real “frat bro, all American” style carry on.

I can see them turning their events into basically a big party with DJ’s, light shows and walk on music for each player/team. I’ve mentioned it before but it’s like a circus. I can see them hitting all the big university cities in America and letting the fans run riot. They can’t be sanctioned by any governing body and I can see the likes of Chase Koepka chipping balls off fans arsecracks and players signing tits in the crowd. The golf itself is a pisstake so I don’t see why the rest of the event will be any different as things progress.

srfc d16

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363661#Comment_119363661

Viewership on tv, for all tv let alone golf, would skew old anyway.

Look at golf channels on youtube the viewership is huge and skews young. LIV are on youtube where young people consume their media. Young people will not pay for a sky subscription and will find free golf content to watch.

Membership in my own club has way more young members than it used to.

I really hope the comment saying golf isn't for young people a few pages back was a joke. Thought we had removed some of the exclusionary attitude from the sport. Maybe I was wrong

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119364517#Comment_119364517

I do agree with the circus element, I'm not a fan of the Teams piece either but maybe that's their long game and the teams will be a franchise, Teams are a big college thing in the US so we/I just don't get it, but at the same time I can ignore it

Dodge

You can’t be arguing for LIV and against ‘exclusionary attitudes’ IMO

Lots of golf players watch barely any golf on TV outside of the big ones and as for ‘young people won’t pay for sky’, it’s immaterial as LIV don’t care about the tiny amount of UK and Ireland golf fans in the grand scheme of things

The majority of Sundays on the PGA Tour are shown on free to air TV.

FixdePitchmark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119364517#Comment_119364517

This is a brilliant post (lol)

But spot on , first event (London) was relatively calm as imagine they wanted to get a relatively calm kick off....but there were djs , late music etc..

It looked more like an actual festival, golf a side show. And fair play to them , probably had a great time......

But it will be all outrageous displays of wealth , flashy , real Dubai, Monte Carlo, F1 , Russian nouveau riche feel to it. I'd say there will be a massive coke problem..... not exaggerating there....

Besides me hating the whole idea and money source....the actual scene would be my worst nightmare.

At the end of the day , I accept golf is way too stuffy , slow and over exposed ....but I like my top sports people to be in cut your throat live and die competitive situations against the very best in the field.

Even for a second, if I seen merits in LIV - at the end of the day, it has ripped the heart out of the competitive side of our sport and this is the 90% important factor for me.

FixdePitchmark

Chase hitting balls off arsecracks ....lol

Nice to break the nightmare into a bit of humour....

Trampas

So stenson said the calibre of players. I presume he’s basing it on how poor half the field is. He feels he can take down chase

Trampas

Henrik Stenson, Jason Kokrak and Charles Howell III have joined the LIV Golf series, completing the 48-man field for its next tournament.

chase still got his name on a line

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119364941#Comment_119364941

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119366140#Comment_119366140

They can have the Kocrack Challenge if Chase gets the chop.