LIV Golf Invitational League...... NO Political/Ethical conflict posts, see Post#2

spuddy4711

They’ll probably be allowed play until a trial date, as precedent with Poulter in UK. Talk of current PGA players boycotting if this happens.

Mushy

Players leave tour to play less golf turn around and sue tour to play more golf...I am shocked that these players may not have been entirely truthful about their reasons for switching tours.

I don't understand how they can win this one. As they were independent contractors, the pga tour isn't obliged to cater for them if they've pissed off. Or is that just too simplistic an outlook at it?

All players pay $100 annual dues to play on PGA tour and if they are exempt from qualifying, have a right to enter PGA tour events. A court will now have to decide if the PGA Tour have the right to bar paid up, exempt members from those tour events?

PARlance

Got a bit of a laugh reading the Jay Monahan PGA Statement yesterday.

Maybe it's me, but it reads way more like a warning to current Tour players rather than the friendly update its supposed to be.

Richard Hillman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119425950#Comment_119425950

I think Davis Love III is going on a solo run with that boycott stuff. He's the only one that I have that has said it. Although a few others have said they shouldn't be allowed back.

I don't think it's as black and white though. All of the LIV guys have friends on the PGA Tour. The golf tour is a bit of bubble. It would be a strong statement to say they shouldn't be allowed back or boycott events when you have good friends that are on LIV.

Davis Love would be outside of the current bubble, so it's easy for him to say.

Richard Hillman

In Ref to the sign on fees from LIV.

It would be very unlikely that they are getting their full cheques straight off. Tax purposes would be the primary reason. Players don't want a 50 million cheque loaded on them, when they'll be paying a chunk on tax. Now I reckon most players are set up as companies and they'll have ways to skirt around things but they'll still have to pay a chunk in tax if they received a massive cheque like that.

Maybe the Saudi government have assisted them. There is no income tax in Saudi Arabia. Maybe they got a special deal to have them registered there for tax purposes.

And from the LIV point of view, handing somebody a cheque for €50 million, the player could accept the cheque and say "Sorry, can't play, I'm injured".

It would be absolutely intriguing to see one of those contracts.

slave1

The PGA has a very patchy history re player control, even back to Jack's era when he was very restricted on where he could play and what tournaments. It's not as bad now and the PGA say to the LIV lads you knew the rules when you signed up but then again what choice did they have.

Re the point of cherry picking (Davis Love comment), sure that's what all the Europeans based in the PGA do, they come "back" and play the biggest tournaments only by and large, good for the goose and all that.....

Russman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119426923#Comment_119426923

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427020#Comment_119427020

Bryson said in an interview that a lot of it was up front

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/07/05/bryson-dechambeau-liv-golf-125-million/

It'll be very interesting how the last part of slave's comment plays out. I totally agree, its only what the best European players have been doing for decades, but now the PGA players don't want LIV players cherry picking the best events. Smells of blatant hypocrisy tbh - "you're making enough money elsewhere don't come back and take ours". Depending on how you define cherry picking, its arguably true of all players that don't play in every single tour event for the year, sure they all pick around 25 out of 46 or whatever the exact number is.

I've no love for the LIV concept or tour, I think they're very flawed, but the hypocrisy of the PGA tour half makes me want to see them succeed.

AdamD

The PGA tour are certainly not the good guys anyway, they've never even attempted to mask their attempts at maintaining a monopoly throughout this. As much as I don't like LiV, I wouldn't mind seeing this blowback in PGA's face.

IAmTitleist

Jay Monahan constantly referring to Liv Golf as "Saudi Golf League" is childish and doing him absolutely no favours.

monkeybutter

Why would Tiger turn down the 800mil

the amount of good he could do with that much money would be crazy

benny79

Thats like saying why dont we sell heroin the amount of good we can do with the money! Bit extreme I know 😂

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427353#Comment_119427353

Actually I’d say he is hitting his target every time he associates LIV with the Saudi royal family.

slave1

If LIV changes the PGA (and it already has in many places) and then dies on it's own sword at least some good will have come out of it

Hyzepher

I would say the top 20 PGA players - outside of the Majors and the final FedEx series - play very little golf on the tour. You only need to look at the last few events to see how weak the PGA Tour is at the moment. At least with LIV you know all the "top" names will be playing. The PGA Tour is suffering from overexposure of mediocrity. If all the top players played every event it would be untouchable but they don't. They pick and choose to the point that only 6 or 7 tournaments can be cited as having the best fields.

If the LIV tour was sponsored by a corporation, the PGA Tour would be in big trouble. They would need radical changes. The only thing the PGA Tour have against LIV is the money and even that stance is hypocritical and likely to evaporate over time.

The PGA need change and they need it fast.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119429074#Comment_119429074

Isn’t there only one top 20 player in the LIV? I could be wrong but I thought I read somewhere that DJ (18) is the highest ranked defection.

The top players obviously play enough times each year to qualify for the Fed ex end of year play offs.

Hyzepher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119429093#Comment_119429093

If you look at the OWGR at the end of 2021 then LIV have 10 of the top 30. Things have moved on since the players are not earning points now. But that is beside the point. The fact is that the PGA Tour is weaker now. The filler weeks are of no interest to the fans. The top PGA players dont play enough weeks together. Tony Finau winning back to back is enough proof of that.

Take the source of the money out of the debate and the PGA Tour have no answer to LIV.

SheepsClothing

With the names in the mix to join up after the FedEx/President's cup, it's hard to see the PGA tour not coming to the table to find a compromise soon.

The only play they have is to restrict LIV access to world ranking points and by extension the majors, but even that's on seriously shaky grounds due to anti-trust laws.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119429074#Comment_119429074

As the saying goes, if my auntie had balls and that's same principle that should be applied to your comment about LIV being sponsored by a corporation. No corporation would ever pay the money the LIV players have gotten, it would be financial suicide.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119429846#Comment_119429846

They would also have shareholders asking what the **** Norman is doing offering those sums, having no TV deal in place and telling players they will cover any legal costs they incur. Only a State backed org could spend that type of money, and it ain’t for the benefit of the game of golf in the desert.

redzerdrog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119429074#Comment_119429074

So much nonsense in one post

Trampas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119429074#Comment_119429074

pga tour is same every year. Players taking a few weeks out before playoffs as usually 3 weeks full they’re playing.

Norman on about standard was higher the other week cause a quiet on one pga tour. Why no more events until September. We all know why.

No company would give that amount of money for so small viewing numbers also. Obvious they’re not worried about the bills

AyeGer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119417971#Comment_119417971

And Tiger and Sam Snead are tied on 82 PGA Tour wins. He’d like to get to 83 I’d imagine too.

Mantis Toboggan

Harrington not too happy with the PGA tour saying they're all about legacy

slave1

This is the shake up that World golf needs, the PGA monopoly needs to end.

Best of the best need to be there for the Majors, outside of that, play where you want and earn ranking points.

Look at the PGA flagship, the FedEx playoffs, where the big money is, no open qualification, no cuts and the PGA give out that LIV don't have them either, I mean Tiger's Hero event at 20players is awarded ranking points via PGA tour, come on lads, it's all coming out now

blue note

He's right obviously. I'm surprised with how many people talk about the lack of tradition / history with LIV golf as the reason it won't work or they wouldn't like to see it work. This was at it's most apparent on the first weekend when the two went head to head and the Canadian Open was on. This is an old national open which should make it a big tournament in it's own right. But in reality, the only place it's more important than a regular good but not great PGA tour event is Canada. In a similar way to the likes of the Irish Open - for a few years when the purse was big and Rory was calling in favours to get other big names at it it was a decent European Tour event. Now other than to us it's of no more interest than the Italian or Dutch opens.

The only events that really have tradition that everyone cares about are the majors and the players to a lesser extent. The WGCs and Fedex get attention, but they're new creations.

People talk about the PGA tour competing with LIV golf as if they're a normal competitor. I think it was Jay Monaghan that described them as an irrational threat and that's exactly what they are. They don't behave like a rational business - their goal isn't to make money or even to break even.

It's more like a private TV station competing with a national broadcaster. Both TV3 and RTE have to try to balance their books, but RTE get an extra €200m or something that TV3 don't.

slave1

A lot of the time I watch golf is to look at the courses and sunny blue skies, I've no interest in watching any tournament if bad weather on, have enough of that outside the window. LIV/PGA/DP/LPGA/LET don't care which

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119431767#Comment_119431767

Interesting. I like when the players have to play outside their comfort zone, changeable weather is one of the things that makes the Open great.

Mantis Toboggan

I'd have to agree with Harrington the pga tour aren't interested in preserving golf legacy only the legacy of their own tournaments and maintaining the US monopoly of world golf and the rest can go and make do with the scraps.

Is anyone surprised that the PGA Tour’s focus is on tournaments held in the US? I would have thought their primary interest in promoting golf in their domestic market would be obvious, and understandable to most. Even if all the opens mentioned by Harrington has higher ranking points, how many of the top players would feel it necessary to travel that far to play?

slave1

It's not just US, they effectively control the DP Tour and their co-sanctioning of DP events cements this. Now that the minimum ranking point system is over they are the only tour where a player can meaningfully gain OWGR points

Quahog217

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119431560#Comment_119431560

Very much agree with this, PGA tour crying over split milk. They enjoyed monopoly for long enough. Its just a pity the new big opposition has such a shady history, otherwise the PGA tour would be on its knees now and much more of the big guns would have jumped ship.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119436311#Comment_119436311

But they are only doing this because of their shaddy history.

https://twitter.com/BerryHenson/status/1556624607892844544

rogerywalters

Cam Smith going now. Another has been?

Dr. Bre

smith would be a huge coup . Power shifting to LIV

Huge news if it is true, he is the first of the top players whose career is on an upward trajectory, to jump. That will really shake the PGA/DP.

Richard Hillman

Mark Leishman too. I reckon they'll try and get an Australian team going the way the South Africans are.

When the Fed Ex cup is over, we'll probably get the true reflection of what next year will be like with LIV.

The PGA will be really struggling for the filler weeks. With more players leaving, up goes the world rankings of guys like Finau or Lowry, who will probably be now in a position to be more selective of when they play. Lowry already seems to be more selective.

Mushy

The court case is on now anyway. As nice as it'd be to see the pga tour get a battering, I hope the liv model disappears

Follow Rex Hoggard from the golf channel on twitter for all the latest on the PGA Tour v LIV court case.

Mushy

So it seems what I said about players not getting the weekly winnings on top of the up-front money was right anyway. Knew I'd seen it somewhere, as odd as it sounds

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119451324#Comment_119451324

Viewing figures suggest otherwise.

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119451770#Comment_119451770

Overall viewing figures for PGA events are down almost 20% since LIV kicked off.

That's a significant reduction from a year ago. It's a slow movement but the players are the commodity. Not the PGA itself.

I've no real interest in watching LIV but since the whole thing kicked off I've found myself less interested in watching golf in general. So I guess I'm part of that 20% reduction.

fullstop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119414127#Comment_119414127

Confirmed in the courtroom today that the ‘prizemoney’ is recouped from the contacts.

https://twitter.com/rickrungood/status/1557101246384726017?s=21&t=w4GYLyPT2keMxKDo9OZlFg

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119451733#Comment_119451733

So where’s the damn incentive for them to play well? Such a stupid format

Reminds me of when Wayne Rooney went on £300k a week at Man U. Absolutely no motivation to try at all

fullstop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119451883#Comment_119451883

It’s guaranteed money and they’re greedy f*cks (the ones who are already multi, multi millionaires). I can understand the lesser names, they actually need the money, but for the likes of Koepka, Bryson, Poulter, Westwood, GMac etc, it’s pure greed.

Mushy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119451883#Comment_119451883

It's almost like it's a farce, trying to dress it up as something it's not. They can't get huffy now when it's called an exhibition

Mushy

So the 3 players in relation to this trial won't be playing this week so.

Wonder what the response from LIV will be

Trampas

Liv will say pga tour is bad and wrong and they’ve a few weeks off to spend time with family before next event so we can say our field is better then other tours.

The money situation might make some younger players question why go if money is fronted

spuddy4711

They argued that PGA was preventing them from making a living. Judge decided that their LIV contracts took into account the fact that they would no longer earn from PGA. LIV players will have to come up with a different argument. Maybe “ We are prevented by PGA from growing the game by not letting us play” as against “ We are loosing money”