LIV Golf Invitational League...... NO Political/Ethical conflict posts, see Post#2

Mushy

He also said he never did an interview with Shipnuck and, while maybe technically correct in that it wasn't anything pre-arranged, it shows why it's hard to believe them.

In saying that, I do think what is mentioned about US and UK is correct, and that many countries will embrace the tour more if they bring the big names with them. Take somebody like Lahiri, nobody has really missed him on the pga tour. But if these events are held closer to India, he may get some following. Huge potential market there.

PGA tour may need more cosanctioned events this side of the world, maybe elsewhere like Japan or Australia too. Talk on pga thread about lack of interest at this time of year, all when Spanish, Italian and French Opens have been on...get them onside and it may help their cause

Rikand

Phil believes he is on the winning side. I suppose he's got 200 million reasons for thinking that

redzerdrog

given his gambling record I like the PGA Tours odds!

Xander10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740997#Comment_119740997

Great news for the likes of paddy power who will get most of it.

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740997#Comment_119740997

Well if you look at what he actually says, he does have a point.

"And I see LIV Golf trending upwards, I see the PGA Tour trending downwards, and I love the side that I’m on."

Innish_Rebel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740684#Comment_119740684

True there is a potential to grow the game - but from what I could see of last weeks event - it wasn't exactly thronged with people - other than 18th hole & a few other spots it looked like the captains prize play-off in my course...

Also new markets like India are really hard to quantify. There is a grand total of 1 professional golfer from india in the top 250 of the world rankings (Lahiri @ 91 also he is 35 - I thought he was much younger) there are 350 Indian professionals/with world rankings 200 of which do not have a ranking point - i.e. joint last in world 2,756th place so probably club pros style players, there are roughly 300 golf courses in India - if memory serves me right from Lahiri interview I think the most are linked with old UK army bases etc... I work with a lovely guy from India and have some great chats with him about sport & to be honest if it isn't called Cricket - there is very little following for it.

I do agree the PGA needs to spread the love to other countries though. And don't get me wrong there must be potential in other regions, but I don't necessarily think there is a lot of low hanging fruit out there. Looking at crowds at a lot DP tour events outside Europe over the last few years it does seem to represent a very high percentage of expats from golf strongholds...

I think if/when LIV hit Australia - they will get crowds. If they had gotten some Korean's and went there. If they get/had gotten Matsuyama Japan would definitely have been a stop. But these are markets where golf is already reasonably strong

Hyzepher

It's always going to be hard to determine the amount of people at the course as they are spread across the 18 holes for the full day. In a normal PGA event the crowd increasing come together as the leaders get closer to the 18th

Wobs

Just put the Liv event on a few moments ago and by the looks of it there was only a handful of people at it. This was then confirmed after someone had hit a shot, there was a tiny clap and a lady was picked up on a mic saying "gallery of one, hahaha". 😂😂

Rikand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119741962#Comment_119741962

Factually he's probably correct. LIVs viewing figures can't get much lower than they are right now and PGAs will decrease because the phil, cam, dj fans may not bother watching it anymore without them in it

Dodge

Lads, LIV have no interest in growing the game in India or anything like that.

Do you honestly believe the people who are backing this (and we can’t discuss why) have any interest in publicity in countries outside of the US and GB?

Nearly as bad as when GMac was suggesting playing would help Saudi Arabia see right in one of of the opening pressers

Richard Hillman

Re: The PGA Calender

They are going to have to shift events if the players are really committed to playing 20 events + 4 majors + Ryder Cup. Thats 25 weeks of 52 in the year, with nothing much happening from October- February. Plus some are playing "stadium golf". If they are playing February to September, that's pretty much every weekend. Which is why I don't believe a word of their 20 event commitment.

They are going to have to work events into October-January. There are some DPWT events in January but that overlaps with Stadium Golf now.

Rahm has voiced his concern at it and mentioned some players may have to be exempt, which would defeat the purpose of it.

It wouldn't surprise me if it pushed people toward playing with LIV.

Richard Hillman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119743510#Comment_119743510

I have it on now. There doesn't seem to be anybody on the course. Literally nobody bar the people working. It doesn't look like a course set up for spectators though.

Trampas

Seems like Eddie pepperall has touched a nerve with Westwood.

The liv boys don’t like people questioning them

Trampas

Poulter having a go at him now about getting invites. They really are bitter about it. I’m sick of their crying about world ranking points. They knew there were none when they signed up. All they cared about was the money

Richard Hillman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747727#Comment_119747727

I think the article that Westwood referenced was bang on to be fair. What's the point in sponsoring events or putting your golf course out there and closing it for a couple of weeks, when nobody of note is showing up. TV figures must be down the sink. As many people on the golf course than watching on TV.

https://www.alistairtaitgolf.com/post/if-one-dp-world-tour-domino-falls

Trampas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119748541#Comment_119748541

These events rely on expats turning up to watch. The new owgr points was a strange one. Really hurt other tours. Made out it was good that everyone got points but fighting over scraps.

I think liv would have done better if Norman wasn’t involved. It got to personal between him and pga tour.

They’ve paid the players to much that they’ve got them talking rubbish half the time

Mushy

That whole twitter exchange with poulter/pepperall is bizarre. The arrogance of the likes of poulter is insane, like they're above reproach. To have a digital that is a low blow, I hope its more a lashing out in anger rather than anything else.

Then the dp world tour page not mentioning the leader...yeah its all only impacting fans so nothing much for the players to worry about

Trampas

Poulter forget the time Beemer gave him his spot in a tournament otherwise he wouldn’t have played enough events and lost his tour card?

Poulter has come across like a right ……. With his spat with Eddie. These liv players seem to feel they’ve got some entitlement. Poulter name more associated with Ryder cup than own career. No golfer wants it to be that no matter what they say

Hyzepher

Is there no cut in this week's CJ Cup? Yet ogwr points seem to be available?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119780679#Comment_119780679

What's your point

Hyzepher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119780822#Comment_119780822

Thought it was obvious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119780926#Comment_119780926

Whats obvious is your missing the other stipulation on ranking points. Just be happy they've wads of cash

Hyzepher

So some stipulations are not as important as others?

Trampas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119781177#Comment_119781177

Go read the rules around no cut events and ranking points

Mantis Toboggan

I see Jay Monaghan and Keith Pelley sit on the board of the OWGR!!

It's never going to happen lads!

Trampas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119782112#Comment_119782112

No reason they can’t get it once they follow the criteria. Liv just want to look for loopholes

If some of the selling points by LIV, and what makes it appealing to LIV players (apart from the millions put into their bank accounts) is a 3 day comp/qualifying/cut, I really don’t see why people think the rules should be changed to allow ranking points. Both LIV, and the players knew the rules on this before the first LIV tournament.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119782142#Comment_119782142

Well explained. You suffer fools better than I do. Be happy with the few bob lads. Get fu@ked thinking your having a bite at a major. In a nutshell

paulos53

The criteria for OWGR is continually changing so it is a poor excuse to exclude the LIV tour. If the PGA Tour wanted to run a 54 hole event then I guarantee that they would be allowed to do so.

There used be a minimum field size but OWGR were quite happy to allow Tiger to host an 18 player event with world ranking points.

The European & Australian Tour had an event where the last day was a 6 hole matchplay event. There was no problem giving that event world ranking points.

Personally, I think there should be no issue with limited field events with no cut having a world ranking points. I would only allocate points to the top half finishers.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119785615#Comment_119785615

Those were exceptions, they are not the normal format for those tours. That's the difference. LIV want all their tournaments to be exceptions and still get OWGR points..

Innish_Rebel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119785615#Comment_119785615

Yes OWGR does change, but there seems to be this expectation that this will just be a done deal. To remind ourselves of the makeup of the OWGR board.

The 4 majors are represented (USGA CEO Mike Whan, R&A chief executive Martin Slumbers, PGA of America executive director Seth Waugh, Augusta National Golf Club executive director Will Jones) PGA & DP tour are represented (PGA Tour commissioner Jay Monahan, DP World Tour CEO Keith Pelley) International federation of PGA tours (Kieth Walters) & Chairman Peter Dawson (former chair of the R&A). 4 of the seven votes are the majors - they (if all in agreement) will decide on this.

How many years of Tigers event before it received ranking points???

On the others, you're picking some individual exceptions that form part of a much bigger tour that the vast majority of tournaments do meet all requirements. What LIV is looking for is to allow all their tournaments (none of which meet the criteria) be included.

Do I think eventually the LIV golfers should get OWGR points, I think so. But do I believe they should have to follow the process, and meet some of the most basic requirements - yes 100%, which they are far from doing right now.

prawnsambo

I've no idea why people persist in the view that the OWGR would change its rules to accommodate the LIV tour. The changes would be so fundamental as to render all past rankings meaningless. And this is somehow required so that a tour that has set itself up to be completely different from the existing tours as a unique selling point, can be accommodated within a system that it purports to be completely different from and is resistant to any change to further that goal. It's nuts.

thewobbler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119785876#Comment_119785876

This is it summed up nicely.

Maintaining a minimum criteria is essential to the system’s integrity.

Otherwise what should happen if say the top 32 players on LiV create a subset of tournaments solely for their own exclusive membership? Should these qualify for OWGR points? What if it’s the top 16 players only? And so on.

Russman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119785876#Comment_119785876

I think there's a lot of truth in this. Comparing LIV golfers and PGA/DPWT golfers from a formal rankings perspective is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. Nobody doubts DJ is a top player, but how do you compare someone who plays exclusively in 54 hole, no-cut events with someone competing in 72 hole events with the pressure of a cut after 36 ? I fear we could end up with something like boxing or darts with competing authorities and pools of players. Honestly I think giving LIV events in their current format, ranking points isn't going to happen and would almost be as bad as Tiger's event getting ranking points back in the day. Personally I don't agree with small size, limited field events (bar Majors) getting points. Too much like the top 10/20 deciding to play each other and gain ranking points to pull further ahead of the rest who aren't even there.

I suppose the supporters of LIV would say, none of this would matter if the guys were just still allowed to play their old tours and disappear to LIV when their 14 events were on. Almost like play the LIV tour on your weeks off.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119786079#Comment_119786079

That last point could end up being moot (assuming they end up able to play their old tours) when you consider that they'd have maybe eight to ten events in which to try and maintain their OWGR position. But that's a tall order, never mind trying to advance in the rankings. Everyone else (outside LIV) will have 20+ events a year to play with.

And even eight to ten would be tough work, especially if they don't qualify for majors.

OEP

I think ultimately LIV will get OWGR points but they'll be a lot less than PGA Tour events. Players will probably have to be finishing top 5 to get any reasonable amount of points and it will be a big struggle to stay in the top 10.

phelimb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119787885#Comment_119787885

Totally agree - I think this is what will play out eventually...

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119787885#Comment_119787885

That's quite possible alright, but I would think they'd have to make some effort to align with the OWGR requirements.

gypsy79

If they do get OWGR it will be reduced (due to 54 holes, reduced field and no cut) so there will be massive pressure on their players at the majors to do well to bring SOF over to LIV

OEP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119794867#Comment_119794867

For me, the pathway to the tour is a big one. You can't be getting OWGR simply because you got invited to a tour because your brother is Brooks Koepka. After that, they can dilute the points based on 54 holes, no cut and small field.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119795708#Comment_119795708

I get the impression that they want to have their cake and eat it too. We'll see if they will compromise towards the OWGR, but I'm not seeing it at the moment.

benny79

Of course they want their cake and eat it. Thats what happens with rich greedy people.

LIV will never get ranking points. Ever. The fact people think they will shows how powerful money and propaganda is but it’s all in vain.

Thankfully.

IAmTitleist

I don't think it's in any doubt that they will get OWGR points eventually.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119800468#Comment_119800468

Just shows you haven’t a clue what you’re talking about. It will never happen.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119800468#Comment_119800468

Why is there no doubt?

IAmTitleist

Because they have loads of the best players in the world.

And the OWGR is there to rank the......best players in the world.

IAmTitleist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119800589#Comment_119800589

Wow...patronising.

I bow down to thee klopparama internet man.

I guess time will tell but trust me if they do get OWGR i'll be back here to reply to this post. 🙄

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119800589#Comment_119800589

And what makes you so sure it will never happen?

fact is

none of us know whether they will or won’t

I guess it will all come down to how much they will be willing to drop their trousers by

Kenny B

The ranking points per event are weighted depending on the field rating.

LIV hope to get the best golfers in the world, If LIV were to get the top 30+ golfers and be awarding equal points, their events would be awarding more than other events as a result and then it would be almost mandatory to be part of it to be a top world player(ranking wise) & have even more of a hook than regular tours where there is freedom of entry with also the chance of being booted based purely on performance.

It is illogical that an invitational only group could monopolize the rankings if they do get equal rating. I can see them getting something but it will have to be a tiny proportion of a regular tour event.

It'll end up like F1 drivers having to buy their way in to be part of the elite.

Regarding the CJ cup, it has a qualification criteria so is open to all golfers, so is not comparable.