Fall of the Catholic Church

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119054810#Comment_119054810

Sure somebody, somewhere is doing a good deed right now to another human being because of their religious beliefs.

And you can be sure many more are being a complete c*nt to another human being and using religion to justify their behaviour.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119055916#Comment_119055916

Correct. I’m not religious. However, my wife is semi-religious and would go to mass quite often. I have no idea if any of my two kids, plus the third on the way, will be religious or not. My wife wants them raised catholic and I have no issue with that, despite my own lack of faith.

How is it a milestone? I can only relate my own personal experience. My mother died last Autumn after a long and horrific battle with cognitive decline. Throughout that time, the church and his faith provided solace to my dad. The clergy were also incredibly respectful to my family at my mother’s funeral.

As I sat in that church yesterday, I reflected on my late mother. Specifically, how happy she would be knowing that her eldest grandchild was taking one of sacraments and participating in and perpetuating the religion that was an important part of her life.

I also contemplated how happy it would make her knowing that my brother, sister and I all have young children who will soon be making their communions and also entering into the faith. She would ecstatic to see her children settled, happy, doing well in life, and her grandchildren being brought up in a belief system that was meaningful to her. I also know that she would dearly love the same for my two youngest sisters, still in their 20s.

Whilst I don’t personally really believe, I don’t loathe organized region or the Catholic Church. I used the time to reflect on my mother’s passing, the enormous influence she had in setting us up to lead happy and productive lives, and how watching my niece bring confirmed would bring tremendous joy. I also know how eagerly she would anticipate the future communions of my children and nieces and nephews. For me, it was a vicarious milestone, that brought me closer to my late mother, knowing the joy that her family and her faith brought to her life.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119056082#Comment_119056082

I know now why you don't like the long intellectual posts 🤣

I pity the fool 😉

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119056283#Comment_119056283

Intellectual? Good Lord! (pardon the pun)😂

Hotblack Desiato

It's undeniably a step up from "tradition", "society is going to hell in a handcart", "you wouldn't want the kids to miss out" etc. etc. which is basically all we've had in response so far. At least you haven't told me I'm going to hell yet, but apparently because I left Catholicism I'm on the fringes of society or something, whatever that is supposed to mean 🙄

B.A._Baracus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119056265#Comment_119056265

People are c*nts. That's the sad reality of the world. If religion went away tomorrow people will still be c*nts. So instead of any religious reason there'd be another reason.

That's my point. Stopping religion won't change anything.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119056276#Comment_119056276

Does your daughter feel the same? Did she have a choice to skip confirmation? A milestone for you perhaps.

B.A._Baracus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119056283#Comment_119056283

Sorry what was that? All I read was hrmpmurphhurph. Almost like your head is up something it shouldn't be.

I'll give you a clue.... its not your own arse lol.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119056587#Comment_119056587

It was my niece making her confirmation. My brother and sister in law asked her if she wanted to be confirmed. She was thrilled to move forward.

It wasn’t my daughter, my niece had a choice, and it was a wonderful day for our entire family. Happy, joyful, and life-affirming.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119055429#Comment_119055429

They were of the opinion that now that their daughters are confirmed, they are free to choose whether they continue attending into their teens or not. Seems like a pretty healthy attitude to me.

Seems like an appalling attitude to me. Why not let the children decide themselves in their teens whether to be confirmed or not. The parent has forcefully opted them in, and now says the child can opt out if they wish.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119056577#Comment_119056577

That's a complete cop-out tbh.

Religion (exactly like fascism) tells people that some other group of people are at best not as good as us, at worst they're damned to hell, and they should be segregated (e.g. we "need" schools or even hospitals just for people who are the same religion as us) lest they contaminate us, or sure why not go the whole hog and just murder them. Plenty of scriptures from all sorts of religions justifying or even urging the murder of people not on the basis of any wrongdoing but on the basis of having different beliefs.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119056809#Comment_119056809

Actually, they are terrific parents to all three of their children.

Like I said to the the other poster, they asked the 11 year old if she wanted to be confirmed. She was flabbergasted that her parents even asked and was thrilled to proceed, along with almost all of her classmates. They are of the mindset that if she opts out of religion later in her teens, that’s her decision. She may decide to return to the faith later in life.

There was no coercion here, nor were any appalling attitudes or deficient parenting in play. I wish that every child in this country could have the happy, contented upbringing that their children are fortunately experiencing.

B.A._Baracus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119056865#Comment_119056865

so... where is this going? you are saying f**k religion basically. Which fair enough and I am saying it won't change jack if it all went poof & gone tomorrow.

So what are you saying? and how is what I am saying a cop out? do you honestly think the world will be this amazing place without religion? it'll be the same mate. Don't kid yourself. Instead of some guy killing in the name of god it will be for some other reason. Never heard of the more things change the more they stay the same? we're talking about people here.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119056587#Comment_119056587

11-12 year old girls are not known for their going-against-the-flow independence spirit.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119056988#Comment_119056988

I think it's more a case of reduce the influence religion has and put agnotic/athiest parents and teachers on the same level as religious ones when it cames to education.

Asking about someone's religion (or even hinting at it) should be banned when hiring teachers or admitting kids to schools (and that's not "hating" or "church-bashing" just in case the point needs to be clarified)

If you missed out on a big promotion at work because the other candidate was catholic or athiest, I'd imagine you'd be pissed off.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119057011#Comment_119057011

But, what if they were given the choice? I didn't ask, "Did your daughter refuse and you forced her." I wanted to know if she was given a choice not to attend. I also know the answer in advance😉. This is the RCC. Women are 2d class by design and thousands of years of implementation.

Plus, the little white fake-o wedding dresses; could they go as the character from Frozen? Or as goths? Yinno, more 11 year old girls going as goths to their confirmations might be a big improvement.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119057055#Comment_119057055

You’re pretty out of touch with how confirmations are conducted these days, aren’t you?

Girls don’t wear dresses, wedding-like, goth-like, or whatever. Instead, they wear their school uniforms. I believe that’s the same policy for young boys being confirmed.

The bishop delivered an interesting sermon related to his experiences trekking the Camino to Santiago. Even you might have been mildly entertained!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

A Goth confirmation dress...? Excellent idea!

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119057112#Comment_119057112

Rest assured, I've not spent much time in Catholic Churches in Ireland or elsewhere, nor do I expect my attendance to go up at all.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119057136#Comment_119057136

No doubt the faithful aren’t exactly wailing in the pews at the loss..

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119056917#Comment_119056917

I'm sure they're great parents. However a 12 year old does not know or understand what confirmation is. The 12 year old understands that there will be a dress and a party, and that's what the thrill is.

If confirmation was not organised through school the chances are the majority of 12 year old kids and their parents wouldn't go to the effort of doing the preparation themselves on their own time.

Your relatives might as it appears to be something they're actively involved in, which is great. However this being done in school is grossly unfair on those who won't be involved, as they feel left out.

The simple solution is for communion and confirmation to be removed from school, and anybody who wishes to do these sacraments can do so at mass on Sundays. However the church will never sign up for this as their already dwindling numbers will evaporate overnight so it would be like turkeys voting for Christmas.

Glad to hear you had a nice day though.

Hotblack Desiato

They understand most of all there will be money!!!

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119056988#Comment_119056988

It's a cop out because you are ignoring the many religious texts which say that people of different belief are at best not as good as "us", or should be kept separate from "us", or at worst should be put to death.

Religion creates divides where divides would otherwise not exist. It creates hatreds where hatreds would otherwise not exist.

Yes, division, hatred and indeed murder will still exist without religion, but that's no excuse to entertain and excuse one of the world's leading causes.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119057539#Comment_119057539

I forgot the money angle. Not unlike the church to promote the accumulation of wealth and opulence.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119057292#Comment_119057292

I actually agree with you to an extent. I think the Catholic Church should retreat, to only serve those demographics who truly want a catholic education.

Taking the example of my niece again. My understanding is that more than 90% of her class were confirmed yesterday. Let’s say that if parents were forced to choose and execute on the preparation themselves, that number falls to 40% or 50%.

In my view, there should be faith-based catholic schools serving that demographic who actively wish to raise their children in the faith. However, preparing for the sacraments remain part of the curriculum in those catholic schools.

Conversely, the remaining 50%-60% of schools should be entirely secular and totally decoupled from the religious aspect. These schools would serve those parents who really aren’t at all bothered or those who actively oppose Catholicism and/or all forms of religious instruction.

In my view, this keeps both sides happy. The Catholics get their faith-based instruction; the non-religious have a secular path open to them. Both groups can then move forward, secure in the knowledge that they are raising their children in the manner they see fit.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119053864#Comment_119053864

.,.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119057011#Comment_119057011

Tell me you don’t know any 12 year old girls….without telling me you don’t know any 12 year old girls.

This thread and some of the posters get more hilarious with every page.

On another recent thread, 12 year old girls who insist that they are a boy trapped in a female body mustn’t , under any circumstances, be questioned about this, because they know how they feel and their feelings must not be disrespected.

But for the purpose of THIS thread they are meek and mild sheep who, fearful of parental and societal disapproval, and because they are too immature to know any better, can be persuaded to agree to anything.

Honestly… you couldn’t make it up…

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119058080#Comment_119058080

I know because I used to be a 12 year old girl.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119058092#Comment_119058092

Me too. I also had one. Quite recently too.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119058310#Comment_119058310

... but you opted for pizza instead?