Has Dublin been completely over run with on street brothels?

Pawwed Rig · 10-05-2022 8:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039486#Comment_119039486

Copenhagen isn't an patch on Paris or Prague. I wouldn't even have Copenhagen in the top 20 cities I have visited in Europe. Even London and Edinburgh are ahead of it.

Amsterdam is a nice city in spite of the red light districts. The prostitution is a bit too much in your face though imo

Sugar_Rush · 10-05-2022 9:21am

Put it this way.

Historical Irish catholic oppression defined our culture, defined how we think (we used to go into big grey, dark and ominous buildings and repeat mantras that we're "sinners", naturally immoral and other manner of self oppression).

That time has passed somewhat (in no small part since joining the EU);

Point being, any political commentator would really contend that our general societal dysfunction is not an extension of generations worth of self oppression and an ethos of self imposed condemnation?

......

It's no wonder there's contingents of hopeless who have "given up on life" around our capital.

This, is a function of culture.

......

If you want to be pedantic sure, there's other more artistic cities in Europe.

Amsterdam is THEE most functional, efficient and electric city, bar none; this is common knowledge amongst cultural and urban savants.

10-05-2022 9:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119037968#Comment_119037968

That’s what some men love to think, unfortunately. Gives convenient freedom of conscience.

Whereas you know better than the escorts who told me these things. Right.

Sex work is usually taken from the view of those who are disadvantaged because society has deemed sex work to be immoral. The groups involved are not going to promote it as being something that could be profitable and safe if done in the right circumstances. Nah. Everyone who does it, has to be damaged.. after all, what good moral person would even consider doing it? Meh. It's amazing the propaganda/social conditioning that goes on in society, that people embrace so willingly.

I'm not saying it's a great job. I think there are far better options out there for people, however, mostly it comes down to their choice. Most sex workers haven't been trafficked or drugged into doing the work. It certainly does happen but it's not always the case.

10-05-2022 9:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039250#Comment_119039250

Amsterdam, and the Red light district is seedy as hell. Ugh. Horrible place. Oh, Amsterdam can be a pretty city, in itself, but there's no comparison with prettier cities like Munich. The Red light district is a tourist trap rather than a place for reasonable prostitution. Price gauging, scams, tricks, etc are a matter of course there.

Although, I get your point on prostitution, and the need to change culture surrounding it. Sex work in western culture is dirty. It is what it is.. and that's reflected in the way it's presented throughout western nations. However, I think you would have been better off looking at Japan for how sex work can be presented in a better way, with the established zones in cities like Kyoto which have traditional/cultural districts for the Geisha's and subsequent semi-approved escorting. It's still seedy in parts of any city, as price ranges drop.. but towards the mid-level or upper price brackets, the areas are sleek, elegant, etc.

In terms of western nations, I think Germany is likely the best example with their attempts to regulate and make the overall process safer for prostitutes. Although TBH the way it's done is more like a mass manufacturing plant, but I guess that reflects the mentality of many Germans. Still, it's a decent basis for improving prostitution in Europe (for both the punter and the prostitutes).

As for Dublin, I suspect it'll go the same way that London did, but without the more modern attempts to clean it up. There's a certain apathy towards planning and implementing long term development in Ireland, and a tendency to react to changes after they've happened.. and then, a desperate attempt to ignore it, so that it's deferred to another generation to fix. Which is why Dublin will go the way of the more rundown or seedy areas of London, while picking one or two areas which will be gloriously modern and clean.

HalloweenJack · 10-05-2022 9:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039729#Comment_119039729

You said it was the most beautiful city in the world; now you are admitting its not even the most 'artistic' in Europe. That's quite a climbdown.

I was there only in October and we got to ride the trams for free because my Visa bank card didn't work and the ticket inspector doesn't carry cash. That was only one of a few incidents we had over a few days where our cards were declined because they mostly use Maestro (iirc). Luckily, we were staying with a friend and he could pay with his Dutch bank card and we could tranfer the money to him. Hardly efficient or functional, however.

10-05-2022 10:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039821#Comment_119039821

You very often choose the type of career that fits best with your life experience from early on in life. That’s all my saying. I loved airplanes from the time I was brought regularly into Dublin Air Traffic Control Tower aged months old, it was my norm as a very young child as my parents were friends of the chief controller. Had my eyesight, health been different I would have loved to be a small aircraft transport pilot. It was right in my dna, it was my comfort zone.

For sex work to be somebody’s choice over an infinite number of options, it is likely from very early encounters that normalise it. And I will never accept child abuse of any kind as being acceptable in society no matter how it might suit sone mindsets. Thankfully I was never abused as my parents were ever so vigilant and conscious of what goes on, and they had to say “no” to various would-be opportunists. I know far too many people, men & women, who were abused by both men & women as children & it is extremely damaging. One friend committed suicide. The consequences are very serious.

One of the ways people cope with child abuse is by “normalising” it as in a type of Stockholm Syndrome situation, they may see sex not as a mutually fabulous sharing act, giving and receiving, but mainly as something perfunctory, like the way an alcoholic drinks to feel normal and not enjoy it. You said your ex no longer enjoys sexual pleasure. That’s not right. She has relinquished one of the most, dare I say uplifting, aspects of life.

10-05-2022 10:54am

My own personal idea of a lovely European capital.

HeidiHeidi · 10-05-2022 10:59am

I got to the second "mmmkay", and stopped reading.

What does that even mean???

10-05-2022 11:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040132#Comment_119040132

South Park reference apparently, means “not interested”, though poster apparently interested enough to engage 😉

Pawwed Rig · 10-05-2022 11:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039829#Comment_119039829

When the comment falls below the standard as set out in the terms of use Yes

maestroamado · 10-05-2022 11:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040213#Comment_119040213

What i said women have lost their way... whats wrong with that...

10-05-2022 11:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040226#Comment_119040226

An awful lot

maestroamado · 10-05-2022 11:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040309#Comment_119040309

considering you had lots to say earlier you gone very quiet....

10-05-2022 11:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040074#Comment_119040074

You very often choose the type of career that fits best with your life experience from early on in life. That’s all my saying.

Except that prostitution isn't a career. At least, it shouldn't be. The point is clear when looking at those who succeeded at prostition vs those who haven't. All men and women have an expiry date on their appearance, which can be mitigated with cosmetics or exercise, but the ticking clock is always there. In addition, the manner of the work catches up on people. It's no different to other jobs where people burn out or can't take it any longer.

The successful prostitute does it for one or two decades, and then leaves. Completely. Saves most of their income, and has a plan for their future. The unsuccessful prostitute does it for the rest of their lives, spending their money on crap or drugs, giving or allowing it to be taken by their pimp, or whatever. There's a distinction involved (as with most things in life).

For sex work to be somebody’s choice over an infinite number of options, it is likely from very early encounters that normalise it

Except that's true of every choice that a person makes throughout their lives. You can assign reasons to other peoples choices.. apply excuses due to external factors, or seek to introduce justifications depending on your own bias.

The simple truth is that nobody really knows why people do things. I did a degree in Psychology years back (out of curiosity), and it's amazing how much of psychology is guesswork, applying a framework to people, and forcing that framework to fit. Small details are often disregarded or dismissed in favour of reinforcing that framework.. so.. no... I don't have a lot of acceptance for the pointing of early experiences as a way to say that prostitutes are damaged, weird, or whatever. They're merely different from you and me. They made different choices for their own reasons, likely reacting to events happening in real-time, and just as likely, there wasn't much active conscious deciding happening either. The same happens for most of us. Anyway, the assumption is projected that we all share the same morals, values, etc, and so we can compare why people make those decisions, but individuality makes a mockery of such assumptions.

I know far too many people, men & women, who were abused by both men & women as children & it is extremely damaging. One friend committed suicide. The consequences are very serious.

I too know people with such experiences. A girlfriend of mine was abused by a family favourite Uncle, and her first boyfriend raped her. Amazing woman. Has a few minor issues, but she dealt with most of them very well. Just as I've encountered other women or men who didn't deal with their issues, with them manifesting in Masochism, submissive behaviour, and daddy issues.. but. You're attempting to suggest that all prostitutes who do their work, have been abused in some manner, and that does not bear out in reality. You're dismissing the very fabric of human individualism and deviancy away from accepted social norms.

ou said your ex no longer enjoys sexual pleasure. That’s not right. She has relinquished one of the most, dare I say uplifting, aspects of life.

You've done this a lot on the thread... you're projecting. Dare you say it.. You've projected your values over the whole human race. I quite enjoy the act of sex, TBH I find it remarkably over-rated, but it's fun. A great way to build a foundation in a relationship, but one of the most uplifting aspects of life? not even close. But then, that's my experience and my perspective.. not yours.

Cluedo Monopoly · 10-05-2022 12:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039486#Comment_119039486

Copenhagen? I don't think so. Good craic but average enough aesthetically. The mermaid is a let down too.

Stockholm would be much prettier.

Whatever about brothels, Dublin is going downhill fast. Grotty.

maestroamado · 10-05-2022 6:00pm

I wonder what the rates are like in different countries... i notice car-hire is more expensive when booking... i suppose the cost of all services going up...

Sugar_Rush · 10-05-2022 8:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119042135#Comment_119042135

*sigh*

It's "excitement".

The same reason Josepha Madigans proposal for enhanced nightlife will play a similar role in cultural reformation.

Use the word "Amsterdam", peoples ears come alive in a way they don't at the mention of any other city (although Prague does seem to be on the rise?).

It may sound unorthodox, but conventional approaches have already proven their worth.

mistersifter · 10-05-2022 9:57pm

...

Ceramic · 11-05-2022 10:24am

The single biggest issue in Dublin from my point of view is the petty crime and brazen bullies that wander around in the centre. There’s an atmosphere in places and at times of the day that simply isn’t pleasant and it’s very much concentrated in areas of the north inner city, but not exclusive to them.

There’s no effective policing and I think during the lock down the city centre effectively went a bit wild and became a playground for some of those characters and with the low footfall it just hasn’t quite pushed back again.

A lot of people seem to be giving it a wide berth at the moment and saying suburban.

Sugar_Rush · 11-05-2022 12:39pm

^^ Agree.

However, the overall point I was trying to make is the complete lack of class/glamour associated with Irish culture that seems to be exemplified (or manifests most acutely) in the capital (region of highest population density).

A bunch of skeevy, no-class run down street brothels operating with impunity is like, a by product of that general ethos.

Someone used the example of an Ann Summers outlet being closed on O'Connell st due to outcry it denigrates the pubic image, which is total BS.

The reason it was removed is because it offended the oppressive sensibilities of conventional culture.

..........

That's what I'm saying, we need MORE of that, not less. Make the oppressors lose their minds completely; glam it, put it up in lights, all whilst asking them, "Do You Like That.....?".

Offend historical culture MORE SO (sexuality being by FAR the most effective means)

The resultant ethos in law-enforcement of current arrangements is apparently they think this public farm-yard behaviour is all part of a days work, as oppose to understanding it desperately needs to be brought to heel.

Horn_of_Africa · 11-05-2022 1:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040074#Comment_119040074

Some women have sex for money simply because they want to, it pays well and can be lucrative if you find regular clients who are wealthy.

12-05-2022 2:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119045709#Comment_119045709

The Irish are simply not very good at planning ahead, and tend to react after the fact, usually dithering long enough for the problem to become far worse than it should.

Dublin has become a hole because of that. It was to be expected that Dublin, as Ireland became more attractive a destination, and as wealth inequalities increased, would end up this way. It's happened in many other cities around the world, but with some intent, we could have avoided most of the crap going on in Dublin, or at least, designated certain areas to limit such expressions to manifest. By doing so, it would be easier to police, and manage (and tax). However, that's not going to happen, and Dublin will continue to dive headlong into seediness, and a certain manky appearance.

I've never particularly liked Dublin as a city, but it used to be semi-fine. Now, I avoid it as much as possible.

Sugar_Rush · 12-05-2022 10:16pm

Between second-guessing the criteria of what constitutes a "beautiful city" and attempting to establish the rationale behind pimping out ones body for a living, there seems to have been an over-sight of the topic.

Dublin is still coming apart at the seams with shady and underhanded business practices.

Now like I said, there's a few diamonds in the rough (but only a few), that do legit treatments and don't try and tap your finances, but criminal gangs are essentially running the show.

Does the ball fall in the court of Drew Harris, or Helen Mac and her squadron of flying monkeys in he department of justice as to responsibility in addressing the issue?

Quite frankly I'd also assign liability to Katherine Martin being the minister for culture in establishing effective policy.

Not saying a minister needs to go full Rudy Giuliani up on the scene but, perhaps something a little more forward-thinking (unconventional as it may be for our rigid Catholic tradition)?

dontmindme · 14-05-2022 3:33pm

There's some pony in this thread...

...think I've got Stockholm Syndrome

cuttingtimber22 · 14-05-2022 3:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119035565#Comment_119035565

Thankfully it is not the Russians.

Sugar_Rush · 16-05-2022 11:06am

To oppress something = counter measure to feeling antagonized by it (razed/wound-up/affected/made-crazy).

Something which emotionally affects someone, gets "under their skin", makes them crazy, what do they try and do?

They subjugate it, they put it underfoot, label it as worthless, out of sight and out mind = ceases to have that affect, no longer makes them crazy.

This is why these parlors are getting away with what they are; they remain to be trashy therefore there's no public outcry.

.........

If, IF, they were held in some kind of legitimate regard however, it makes the "good to be bad", "folksy", "common people", "anti-snobbery" inner city trash culture, second guess their entire agenda.

That's what I'm emphasizing.

Dublin is over run with them cause, unlike Ann Summers on O'Connell St (which was as mentioned, removed for this very reason), they're too trash'ified to make anyone second guess themselves, their lifestyle or general outlook on life and living (societal culture).

And why is Dublin City Council facilitating their continuity?

Almost certainly cause its members comprise of what was once that very demographic, "Dub life".

.........

Maybe this concept is above the general boards.ie pay-grade?