The NMH at St. Vincents

kylith

pilly wrote: »

infogiver wrote:

As a taxpayer I was getting the land for to build my hospital on for nothing. Now the bitches have said "f**k off and build your poxy hospital somewhere else" So now I have to buy land and build a hospital. All because of your bitching and moaning.

Jesus, great to know I've such power.

As taxpayers we were possibly getting the land for free, but then we were effectively setting fire to at least €150m, many times the cost of the land, by gifting the finished hospital to SVHG. As well as footing the bill for the running of the hospital in perpetuity.

If the religious orders want to impose their ethos on a hospital they can build, staff, and maintain it themselves.

Hospitals and schools should be secular and owned by the state, not handed over to private groups with their own interests.

aloyisious

IMO, the deal brokered by Kieran Mulvey was known to be faulty well in advance by the people agreeing to the deal. They all chose to ignore the elephant in the room, the RC ethos of the nuns owning the land and obligation to keep that ethos.

The willingness of the Govt to fund the planned hospital from taxes and basically hand it's keys over to the nuns is a sign of business as usual, in the Irish Govt fashion. Simon Harris, while MFH, is merely the new boy being used as a front. Both M Noonan and P Donohoe must have sanctioned the deal, with the OK from the Taoiseach and cabinet colleagues.

When the story broke on RTE earlier this week and two members of Holles St Board were interviewed, the male member complained about the fact that RTE had allowed the former master of Holles St make reference to the deal without RTE letting them know in advance, thereby letting the ethos out of the bag without any chance to stifle it. It may also be true that the nuns and SVH were complicit in wishing the finer details to be kept schtum hoping to avoid any fuss.

Despite the advances made in both medical science and legal ability to utilise them, it seems that the deal involved NOT mentioning the current operational practices of Holles St when it came to it's future work at St Vincents, NOT upsetting the applecart, ignore the ethos elephant and keep the nuns happy with a cost-free building thrown in for free on their privately owned campus.

infogiver

pjohnson wrote: »

Exactly so why waste money building any specialised Maternity Hospital. Its not needed.

The Master of NMH says the place is falling down so we do need a hospital but because this is Ireland and we are Irish we just can't do anything without there being a 3 ring circus first, and spending the guts of €1 billion that we haven't got when there was no need for it.
But that's just the way of it

Anita Blow

infogiver wrote: »

The Master of NMH says the place is falling down so we do need a hospital but because this is Ireland and we are Irish we just can't do anything without there being a 3 ring circus first, and spending the guts of €1 billion that we haven't got when there was no need for it.
But that's just the way of it

The current reconfiguration of the major maternity hospitals is a once in a generation opportunity. How this hospital is handled will guide how we manage the relocation of the Rotunda & Coombe. People would rather it be done right than be done cheap.

Absolam

Anita Blow wrote: »

IT article suggests that the clinical independence of the maternity hospital which the minister is now asserting was not a part of the original plan.

But didn't the deal back in 2016 specify the new hospital would have clinical independence?

Was someone lying about that then, or is the Minister actually seeking something different now?

Absolam

Anita Blow wrote: »

The current reconfiguration of the major maternity hospitals is a once in a generation opportunity. How this hospital is handled will guide how we manage the relocation of the Rotunda & Coombe. People would rather it be done right than be done cheap.

I think the opportunity to do it right has passed; trying to renegotiate the deal after the fact shows it's already been done wrong.

BabyCheeses

infogiver wrote: »

The Master of NMH says the place is falling down so we do need a hospital but because this is Ireland and we are Irish we just can't do anything without there being a 3 ring circus first, and spending the guts of €1 billion that we haven't got when there was no need for it.
But that's just the way of it

Wow, it is really important that this hospital gets land. Why don't the nuns donate the land? Why do they want those poor women to suffer? You wanted to give control of a hospital to people who are willing to let those they would be caring for suffer?

Mr.Wemmick

Far too much *ah sure, it'll be grand* going on here; government to Nuns, Nuns to Minister and now it's out there, none of it holds up to public scrutiny..

And I would hazard a guess, we are only scrutinizing a small part of what was agreed.. or loosely agreed, I should say.

Stars and Stripes

One eyed Jack wrote: »

They haven't? It's only brought up as an issue the odd time. More people are far more concerned with issues such as employment, job security and their pay packets being squeezed so tight they have to make a decision between either being able to feed themselves or warm themselves for the week, than to be taking time off lectures to go on field trips in Dublin.

The 8th Amendment has been brought up umpteenth times down the years, even this weekend the citizens assembly are voting on it. It's self evident because of fear of the Catholic backlash successive govts for decades been foot dragging on changing the 8th Amendment, claiming otherwise is just tripe. Anyway it looks like Harris's devious €300 Million handover is going to be scuppered.

GarIT

If Larry Murphy owned the land would we give him the hospital? So why should we give it to a group with the same ethics as Larry Murphy!

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

infogiver wrote: »

The Master of NMH says the place is falling down so we do need a hospital but because this is Ireland and we are Irish we just can't do anything without there being a 3 ring circus first, and spending the guts of €1 billion that we haven't got when there was no need for it.
But that's just the way of it

What we need is a hospital that put the welfare and safety of women first, and who will act in the best interest of the patient. That should include being able to administer the contraceptive pill, the morning after pill, carry out terminations and provide emergency medical treatment if the mothers life is at risk.

We need a hospital where women feel safe, and where the medical staff are not being held back by outdated and bizarre religious ethos that a lot of women don't identify with.



Ps, I've a good bit of road frontage. Want to build a house? It'll be yours, just a slight catch..,

gctest50

infogiver wrote: »

The Master of NMH says the place is falling down so we do need a hospital .........

infogiver wrote: »

How is it pathetic? It's a fact! What you can't argue with is facts. It's pointless. All the data is there. Today is Friday. Ireland is one of the safest places in the world to have a baby, to be pregnant, to be a baby.........

So one minute it's falling down and the next minute its one of the safest places in the world to have a baby, to be pregnant

Hotblack Desiato

donegaLroad wrote: »

If the nuns had been been put in charge of the country's finances back in the 00's, we wouldn't have had the spectacular banking collapse that we had. There would not have been as much as 1 pencil unaccounted for.... unfortunately we had a nest of rats in charge of the money.

There's a lot of babies unaccounted for by the nuns, they may not be great at counting babies but they sure know how to count cash

Penn

Absolam wrote: »

But didn't the deal back in 2016 specify the new hospital would have clinical independence?

Was someone lying about that then, or is the Minister actually seeking something different now?

Which again raises the question; if the nuns were to have no ability to influence the operations or ethos of the hospital and weren't going to benefit financially, surely they should still be willing to donate the land and step away from it entirely?

gordongekko

infogiver wrote: »

Well done posters!
RT? 6 One news reporting that the Board are immediately reviewing the agreement and will most likely pull out now, so its back to the drawing board for another 10 years or so.
Well done!

Nuns on the Run

pjohnson

gordongekko wrote: »

Nuns on the Run

This sounds like a comedy or a porno.

Hannibal_Smith

infogiver wrote: »

Ok you've got your pride.
Now you and your loved ones just go back to Holles st and have your babies, The Master of Holles st says it's bordering on dangerous now but as long as you have your "pride", that's the main thing.

Yeah, it is the main thing. Giving ownership of a maternity hospital to nuns. What is the point in that? Where is the sense? What on earth can they offer a maternity hospital? Land. That's the only thing they can offer and if they were Sisters of Charity as their name supposes shouldn't they be charitable enough to help out their fellow citizens. The fellow citizens that they were beating up and dumping in sewage tunnels!

Don't even try to make out you have anyone's best interests at heart.

aloyisious

I'm a bit surprised that the SVH board is reviewing the agreement now as I thought it would have approved it. I'm not sure what they could do about renouncing it if they - and, I presume, the nuns - had read it through and seen any clauses about religious-ethos non-interference in the running of the new hospital before they agreed with it.

Committing SVH to such a deal would surely have been read over by their legal people as well before a deal was done.

In a way, I'm glad that the snag emerged before any money was invested or concrete was poured on site. There is still time to sort the mess out.

The_Valeyard

pjohnson wrote: »

This sounds like a comedy or a porno.

Comedy, 1990.

Eric Idle & Robbie Coltrane

pjohnson

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Comedy, 1990.

Eric Idle & Robbie Coltrane

Oh its an actual thing? I might look it up Coltrane is quite funny. Cheers!

The_Valeyard

pjohnson wrote: »

Oh its an actual thing? I might look it up Coltrane is quite funny. Cheers!

It's not the best now, and has dates horribly, but yeah give it a go.

JupiterKid

In no way should ANY religious order have any ownership and control over this proposed new maternity hospital.

Have we learned absolutely nothing over the past 25 years?

One eyed Jack

JupiterKid wrote: »

In no way should ANY religious order have any ownership and control over this proposed new maternity hospital.

Have we learned absolutely nothing over the past 25 years?

Who do you suggest should own and run it then that hasn't participated and colluded in the cover-up of child sexual abuse and exploitation and corruption and inflicted untold misery upon the most vulnerable in Irish society?

I presume that's what you're referring to when you ask have we learned absolutely nothing in the past 25 years?

I still remember being called a child molester as a 14 year old going to mass. That was 25 years ago. I knew plenty about the wilful ignorance of Irish society before then, and I've learned plenty about the wilful ignorance of Irish society since then right up to today.


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kylith

'Hospital will have to obey the rules of the RCC if nuns run it', says Bishop. (Sorry it's mostly behind a registration wall)
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eb2509c0-27a6-11e7-bb90-774629f6c4d8

And that is why they should never be allowed to run it.

Wabbit Ears

kylith wrote: »

'Hospital will have to obey the rules of the RCC if nuns run it', says Bishop. (Sorry it's mostly behind a registration wall)
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eb2509c0-27a6-11e7-bb90-774629f6c4d8

And that is why they should never be allowed to run it.

I admit to having a good laugh at how damaging this would be to their own cause.

oppenheimer1

kylith wrote: »

'Hospital will have to obey the rules of the RCC if nuns run it', says Bishop. (Sorry it's mostly behind a registration wall)
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eb2509c0-27a6-11e7-bb90-774629f6c4d8

And that is why they should never be allowed to run it.

Well then it can't be built on their land. And if it can't be built on their land it can't be Co located (although it could be built nearby).

The controversy here has been stoked by the minister with his comments. If he were more astute he would have said nothing.

Hotblack Desiato

If he was more astute he wouldn't have entered into such a bad deal for the people of Ireland.

aloyisious

kylith wrote: »

'Hospital will have to obey the rules of the RCC if nuns run it', says Bishop. (Sorry it's mostly behind a registration wall)
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eb2509c0-27a6-11e7-bb90-774629f6c4d8

And that is why they should never be allowed to run it.

Listened to "what it say's in the papers" earlier, quoting him as saying the Nuns will have to follow the ethos of the church if the hospital was located at SVH. That would put them directly at loggerheads with the operational ethos of the maternity hospital if it was relocated to their property at SVH.

Kieran Mulvey is probably thinking what have I got myself involved in..............

Donal55

kylith wrote: »

'Hospital will have to obey the rules of the RCC if nuns run it', says Bishop. (Sorry it's mostly behind a registration wall)
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eb2509c0-27a6-11e7-bb90-774629f6c4d8

And that is why they should never be allowed to run it.

Credit to the bishop for saying it as it is. Puts Harris in a bit of a tailspin now.

aloyisious

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Who do you suggest should own and run it then that hasn't participated and colluded in the cover-up of child sexual abuse and exploitation and corruption and inflicted untold misery upon the most vulnerable in Irish society?

I presume that's what you're referring to when you ask have we learned absolutely nothing in the past 25 years?

I still remember being called a child molester as a 14 year old going to mass. That was 25 years ago. I knew plenty about the wilful ignorance of Irish society before then, and I've learned plenty about the wilful ignorance of Irish society since then right up to today.


.

The Maternity Hospital itself...... unless they have been involved in the abuse you listed. Bear in mind that another poster here pointed out who is on the NMH board (see below).

Since the Royal Charter for the hospital was changed in 1936 (The Act), shortly after the Eucharistic Congress and (to use the wording of the time) his Grace the Catholic Archbishop of Dublin became chair of the hospital board. The PP of Westland Row is also on the board. That might help anyone upset at the idea of the nuns forgoing ownership of the building if the NMH relocated to SVH grounds.

Link to NMH board and charter..... https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi_26qIkrvTAhVmCsAKHfI_D6MQFggpMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nmh.ie%2Fabout-us%2Fcorporate.201.html&usg=AFQjCNGBLM7MLdqqrif7cnQhKURQnuVP5g

Edit.. Mention was also made on RTE's morning news (around the time "what it say's in the papers" was read out) that NAMA had offered a site for the proposed new hospital in the general area but that was later withdrawn. If NAMA has a suitable site, it might be revisited.