The NMH at St. Vincents

Donal55

Why does this country always have trouble building hospitals, prisons and other state infrastructure?

lawred2

Donal55 wrote: »

Why does this country always have trouble building hospitals, prisons and other state infrastructure?

follow the money

gctest50

The SistersofCharity filth have been turfed out of Cork - unexplained injuries and more

It's almost like Aras Attracta ll

Might explain why their supporters are so keen to get them deeply embedded


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/sisters-of-charity-run-facilities-heavily-criticised-in-hiqa-reports-1.3057123

The Health Service Executive is seeking a new service provider to run a centre for people with intellectual disabilities in Cork following two highly critical Hiqa reports into the facility when it was operated by the Sisters of Charity.


A spokeswoman told The Irish Times “the process is well under way”.


This is the second Sisters of Charity health service against which the HSE has moved following recent severely critical Hiqa reports.



The HSE confirmed that in June 2015 the District Court in Kilkenny granted an order to Hiqa to cancel the registration of Our Lady’s Unit at the St Patrick’s Centre there, run by the Sisters of Charity, due to concerns over fire safety. The court appointed the HSE as registered provider.


In a more recent case last month, the HSE sought the court’s help with aspects of the transition to a new provider at the Sisters of Charity-run St Vincent’s Centre for people with intellectual disabilities in Cork city, following two highly critical Hiqa reports*.



A subsequent Hiqa report found “the assessed needs of residents were not being met”, that “an allegation of abuse had not been reported to the person in charge, or appropriately investigated, as required”, and that “alleged financial irregularities in the centre” had been received.



Other serious issues raised related to the handling of residents’ personal belonging, management of challenging behaviour, unexplained injuries and under-staffing

ChikiChiki

Donal55 wrote: »

Why does this country always have trouble building hospitals, prisons and other state infrastructure?

To be blunt, because of corruption. People with to power to greenlight the projects needs to be paid or at least be promised a slice of the pie.

A good case study to understand how Ireland really works is that of Tom Gilmartin.

https://youtu.be/7rP_kiT3o2s

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/a-quiet-funeral-for-a-brave-man-the-big-boys-could-not-bury-1.1608574?mode=amp

It happens but people are so thick that we choose to be ignorant and let it go.

super_furry

Giving control of a maternity hospital to a celibate religious group is like letting vegans run a butchers.

Canon law will always override state law for them and the government should just place a compulsory purchase order on the land.

Absolam

I'm not sure anyone who likens a maternity hospital to a butchers has an opinion on the subject I'd trust either though....

jonsnow

In a statement this morning, the National Maternity Hospital said: "The Deputy Chairman of the National Maternity Hospital Mr Nicholas Kearns has asked Dr Peter Boylan to resign from the Hospital's Board.

"Dr Boylan was a member of the NMH Board at all times during the six-month period of mediation which resulted in the agreement of 21 November 2016 to co-locate the National Maternity Hospital with St Vincent's University Hospital.

"The board was kept fully briefed on all developments by the negotiating team during that period.

"The decisive final meeting of the board overwhelmingly supported the agreement with 25 in favour, two abstentions (including Dr Boylan) and one vote against.

"Thereafter the agreement was approved by Government and planning permission was lodged.

"Last week, some five months after the agreement was approved, Boylan, without warning, consultation with or notification to the board, its chair or the Master of the hospital, went public in attacking the agreement.

"Board members have a duty of loyalty to the board on which they serve and for this reason his resignation has been sought."


Dr Boylan has said he does not feel he should resign and that his loyalty is to the women of Ireland.

He said it was wrong to effectively hand ownership of the maternity hospital to the Catholic Church, which would fundamentally disagree with some of the practices carried out in the hospital.

In addition he said he had told the board many times that this would not fly with the public, when it became public.

"There's been questions about loyalty to the board. I feel a loyalty to the women of Ireland. The function of the National Maternity Hospital is to offer care to the women of Ireland.

"To believe that by granting ownership of the hospital to the Roman Catholic Church and the company that is tasked with running the hospital to the Roman Catholic Church, to construct a board with four of nine members who would have fundamental objections to a lot of activities going on in that hospital, just is not a runner."

Dr Boylan said he abstained from a vote on the issue out of loyalty but he had stated objections to the decision on many occasions during the mediation period.

He added that he knew the vote would pass and he was waiting for a meeting of the governors to take place.

At this point, he said, he would make his objections known again.

Dr Boylan told Morning Ireland today that passion has taken the place of common sense.

He said that assurances that the hospital would be free of religious interference had been "blown out of the water" by Bishop Kevin Doran's statement at the weekend.

The bishop said that any healthcare organisation bearing the name Catholic has a special responsibility to Catholic teachings.

Dr Boylan said there was no question that the hospital needed to be built and the design was superb, but it should not go ahead in its current form.

"Unless the land is owned by the State or by the National Maternity Hospital, what'll happen is that the hospital will be built, and then, when it comes to - in five or ten years time - to admitting women and maybe doing abortions, doing whatever, suddenly they'll find you can't do that.

"Four members of a nine person board. It only takes one person to wobble. And then you say, no you can't do that, and they'll have to go to the Rotunda or the Coombe."

Pretty petty by NMH and they have a very poor grasp of how this will go down with the general public (not that they appear to care what we think). The treatment of whistleblowers is appalling in this country. Loyalty to the institution always come first. Boylan warned that the church would have a malign influence.Does anyone seriously dispute that assertion now that the church have essentially backed it up in their own statements. I think that Kearns and Rhona Mahony have come across very poorly and have been hugely diminished by this scandal.

ohnonotgmail

Absolam wrote: »

I'm not sure anyone who likens a maternity hospital to a butchers has an opinion on the subject I'd trust either though....

i think your internet is broken. you seem to have missed half the words in the post before yours.

ohnonotgmail

jonsnow wrote: »

In a statement this morning, the National Maternity Hospital said: "The Deputy Chairman of the National Maternity Hospital Mr Nicholas Kearns has asked Dr Peter Boylan to resign from the Hospital's Board.
...

Pretty petty by NMH and they have a very poor grasp of how this will go down with the general public (not that they appear to care what we think). The treatment of whistleblowers is appalling in this country. Loyalty to the institution always come first. Boylan warned that the church would have a malign influence.Does anyone seriously dispute that assertion now that the church have essentially backed it up in their own statements. I think that Kearns and Rhona Mahony have come across very poorly and have been hugely diminished by this scandal.

Loyalty to the institution over loyalty to the people? i wonder where they learned that from.

ThisRegard

jonsnow wrote: »

Pretty petty by NMH and they have a very poor grasp of how this will go down with the general public (not that they appear to care what we think). The treatment of whistleblowers is appalling in this country. Loyalty to the institution always come first. Boylan warned that the church would have a malign influence.Does anyone seriously dispute that assertion now that the church have essentially backed it up in their own statements. I think that Kearns and Rhona Mahony have come across very poorly and have been hugely diminished by this scandal.

It's worth listening to the podcast of when Boylan was on Pay Kenny this morning, he made some great points.

lawred2

jonsnow wrote: »

I think that Kearns and Rhona Mahony have come across very poorly and have been hugely diminished by this scandal.

They have come across as being naive and easily fooled at best or bought and sold and not to be trusted at worst.

Absolam

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

i think your internet is broken. you seem to have missed half the words in the post before yours.

I don't think so... let me see.

super_furry wrote: »

Giving control of a maternity hospital to a celibate religious group is like letting vegans run a butchers.

celibate religious group = vegans
maternity hospital = butchers

Are these not the similes?

aloyisious

jonsnow wrote: »

In a statement this morning, the National Maternity Hospital said: "The Deputy Chairman of the National Maternity Hospital Mr Nicholas Kearns has asked Dr Peter Boylan to resign from the Hospital's Board.

"Dr Boylan was a member of the NMH Board at all times during the six-month period of mediation which resulted in the agreement of 21 November 2016 to co-locate the National Maternity Hospital with St Vincent's University Hospital.

"The board was kept fully briefed on all developments by the negotiating team during that period.

"The decisive final meeting of the board overwhelmingly supported the agreement with 25 in favour, two abstentions (including Dr Boylan) and one vote against.

"Thereafter the agreement was approved by Government and planning permission was lodged.

"Last week, some five months after the agreement was approved, Boylan, without warning, consultation with or notification to the board, its chair or the Master of the hospital, went public in attacking the agreement.

"Board members have a duty of loyalty to the board on which they serve and for this reason his resignation has been sought."


Dr Boylan has said he does not feel he should resign and that his loyalty is to the women of Ireland.

He said it was wrong to effectively hand ownership of the maternity hospital to the Catholic Church, which would fundamentally disagree with some of the practices carried out in the hospital.

In addition he said he had told the board many times that this would not fly with the public, when it became public.

"There's been questions about loyalty to the board. I feel a loyalty to the women of Ireland. The function of the National Maternity Hospital is to offer care to the women of Ireland.

"To believe that by granting ownership of the hospital to the Roman Catholic Church and the company that is tasked with running the hospital to the Roman Catholic Church, to construct a board with four of nine members who would have fundamental objections to a lot of activities going on in that hospital, just is not a runner."

Dr Boylan said he abstained from a vote on the issue out of loyalty but he had stated objections to the decision on many occasions during the mediation period.

He added that he knew the vote would pass and he was waiting for a meeting of the governors to take place.

At this point, he said, he would make his objections known again.

Dr Boylan told Morning Ireland today that passion has taken the place of common sense.

He said that assurances that the hospital would be free of religious interference had been "blown out of the water" by Bishop Kevin Doran's statement at the weekend.

The bishop said that any healthcare organisation bearing the name Catholic has a special responsibility to Catholic teachings.

Dr Boylan said there was no question that the hospital needed to be built and the design was superb, but it should not go ahead in its current form.

"Unless the land is owned by the State or by the National Maternity Hospital, what'll happen is that the hospital will be built, and then, when it comes to - in five or ten years time - to admitting women and maybe doing abortions, doing whatever, suddenly they'll find you can't do that.

"Four members of a nine person board. It only takes one person to wobble. And then you say, no you can't do that, and they'll have to go to the Rotunda or the Coombe."

Pretty petty by NMH and they have a very poor grasp of how this will go down with the general public (not that they appear to care what we think). The treatment of whistleblowers is appalling in this country. Loyalty to the institution always come first. Boylan warned that the church would have a malign influence.Does anyone seriously dispute that assertion now that the church have essentially backed it up in their own statements. I think that Kearns and Rhona Mahony have come across very poorly and have been hugely diminished by this scandal.

The mess thickens....

VinLieger

aloyisious wrote: »

The mess thickens....

Loyalty trumps looking out for patients care and health apparently, good to know

jmayo

jonsnow wrote: »

In a statement this morning, the National Maternity Hospital said: "The Deputy Chairman of the National Maternity Hospital Mr Nicholas Kearns has asked Dr Peter Boylan to resign from the Hospital's Board.

...
"Board members have a duty of loyalty to the board on which they serve and for this reason his resignation has been sought."

Dr Boylan has said he does not feel he should resign and that his loyalty is to the women of Ireland.
...

Reminds me of the catholic church, the Garda Siochana and all the other sorry inept corrupt institutions in this country which must at all costs be protected by the subservience of it's members and where anyone voicing disapproval must be silenced, embarrassed or even destroyed.

ohnonotgmail

Absolam wrote: »

I don't think so... let me see.

celibate religious group = vegans
maternity hospital = butchers

Are these not the similes?

em, no. they're not. But you already know that. All a bit pathetic really.

Penn

Absolam wrote: »

I don't think so... let me see.

celibate religious group = vegans
maternity hospital = butchers

Are these not the similes?

You badly misrepresented the point super_furry made. He wasn't comparing a maternity hospital to a butchers, he was comparing the difference and conflicts between a celibate religious group operating a maternity hospital to that of a vegan operating a butchers.

lawred2

Absolam wrote: »

I don't think so... let me see.

celibate religious group = vegans
maternity hospital = butchers

Are these not the similes?

fail

Absolam

Penn wrote: »

You badly misrepresented the point super_furry made. He wasn't comparing a maternity hospital to a butchers, he was comparing the difference and conflicts between a celibate religious group operating a maternity hospital to that of a vegan operating a butchers.

Then it does appear he compared the institution being run, a maternity hospital, to a butchers.

ohnonotgmail

Absolam wrote: »

Then it does appear he compared the institution being run, a maternity hospital, to a butchers.

and, again, that is not what they did. But as you dont have any intelligent points to make you have resort to cheap shots.

Absolam

I would have said such a comparison was a very cheap shot... that's why I pointed it out.

lawred2

Absolam wrote: »

I would have said such a comparison was a very cheap shot... that's why I pointed it out.

Oh lord - just leave it.

Penn

Absolam wrote: »

Then it does appear he compared the institution being run, a maternity hospital, to a butchers.

No, he was comparing two similar situations using an analogy.

If I said I hated someone like the Joker hates Batman... I'm not comparing the person I hate to Batman.

TheQuietFella

mrsmags16 wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/sisters-of-charity-to-be-given-new-national-maternity-hospital-1.3052079

Is this a joke?!

The above statement is like the old days of the empire when Catholics couldn't vote or were not allowed to own land until Daniel O'Connell changed all that.
It's also very similar to the tradition that was inflicted upon our northern brethren for many many years!

Lets not after all that history that we so lovingly despised regress to that period!

ohnonotgmail

Absolam wrote: »

I would have said such a comparison was a very cheap shot... that's why I pointed it out.

except the comparison you are claiming they made is not the comparison that was made.

I'll leave this here. arguing with you is not worth the energy.

Ken.

Mod-Absolam, do not post in this thread again. Dragging it off topic by misinterpreting other posters is trolling.

PopePalpatine

TheQuietFella wrote: »

The above statement is like the old days of the empire when Catholics couldn't vote or were not allowed to own land until Daniel O'Connell changed all that.
It's also very similar to the tradition that was inflicted upon our northern brethren for many many years!

Lets not after all that history that we so lovingly despised regress to that period!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M

Flying Spaghetti Monster forbid you ever come across the bile Ian Paisley spewed out.

lawred2

TheQuietFella wrote: »

The above statement is like the old days of the empire when Catholics couldn't vote or were not allowed to own land until Daniel O'Connell changed all that.
It's also very similar to the tradition that was inflicted upon our northern brethren for many many years!

Lets not after all that history that we so lovingly despised regress to that period!

Which above statement?

TheQuietFella

lawred2 wrote: »

Which above statement?

The angst against a religious order is what I meant!

lawred2

TheQuietFella wrote: »

The angst against a religious order is what I meant!

Well I would consider it to be a little more nuanced than that but whatever - circle the wagons.