The NMH at St. Vincents

LordSutch

Will there be crucifixes & statues of Jesus & the virgin Mary at various locations in the hospital?

Yes/No?

VinLieger

LordSutch wrote: »

Will there be crucifixes & statues of Jesus & the virgin Mary at various locations in the hospital?

Yes/No?

TBF i was in vincents not too recently and didn't notice an abundance of them if any at all

pilly

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Some nuns are also doctors.

Some nuns are also nurses, midwives, adminostrators, cleaners etc.

Just cos someone is a nun doesn't mean they cannot work in a regular job.

I've NEVER came across a nun who was a doctor, I would challenge you to find one working in Ireland.

And I tell you what if a nun came anywhere near me in labour as a midwife she'd receive a swift kick to the head, qualified or not.

Boggy Turf

groovyg wrote: »

Broadsheet did a piece on the agreement earlier
How Deal Leaves Doors Open For Church Control
Interesting read

Bloody hell, thats a shaky deal. Do our civil servants have a clue?

VinLieger

Boggy Turf wrote: »

Bloody hell, thats a shaky deal. Do our civil servants have a clue?

Reading Boylans comments on the whole deal it sounds to me like they read the cover, looked at the pretty pictures and then flicked to the back and signed it

recipio

VinLieger wrote: »

Reading Boylans comments on the whole deal it sounds to me like they read the cover, looked at the pretty pictures and then flicked to the back and signed it

Is there not some hypocrisy here ? As far as I can see a Catholic ethos already applies in Holles St in that sterilizations are not offered as a matter of routine ?
With the inevitable introduction of abortion there will be a direct conflict of interest between NMH and SVHG . Perhaps they wanted the same cozy agreement to remain.? Its a bit like Irish Water, the Government are surprised when the people stood up against another shady deal.

pilly

recipio wrote: »

Is there not some hypocrisy here ? As far as I can see a Catholic ethos already applies in Holles St in that sterilizations are not offered as a matter of routine ?
With the inevitable introduction of abortion there will be a direct conflict of interest between NMH and SVHG . Perhaps they wanted the same cozy agreement to remain.? Its a bit like Irish Water, the Government are surprised when the people stood up against another shady deal.

According to the master of Holles St sterilizations are carried out so who knows what the truth is?

Mrs OBumble

pilly wrote: »

I've NEVER came across a nun who was a doctor, I would challenge you to find one working in Ireland.

And I tell you what if a nun came anywhere near me in labour as a midwife she'd receive a swift kick to the head, qualified or not.

Googling "nuns in ireland who are doctors" brought up references to several on the girst page alone - who have died and who mainly worked overseas.

And if a female midwife approached you while you were in labour, you would have no way of knowing if she was a nun or not. She could be a pastafarian goddess even and you wouldn't have a clue.

Most nuns in ireland today are retirement age, which is why they appear not to have rehular jobs. When they were younger they worked in jobs just like everyone else their age and without kids did.

VinLieger

recipio wrote: »

Is there not some hypocrisy here ? As far as I can see a Catholic ethos already applies in Holles St in that sterilizations are not offered as a matter of routine ?
With the inevitable introduction of abortion there will be a direct conflict of interest between NMH and SVHG . Perhaps they wanted the same cozy agreement to remain.? Its a bit like Irish Water, the Government are surprised when the people stood up against another shady deal.

Interview with Kearns yesterday, when in Holles street discussions on sterilisations are between consultant and patient and that's it, however he has performed 2 in Vincents and always discussed it with the medical director prior to performing it. That indicates 2 very different standards of practice in either hospital

pilly

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Googling "nuns in ireland who are doctors" brought up references to several on the girst page alone - who have died and who mainly worked overseas.

And if a female midwife approached you while you were in labour, you would have no way of knowing if she was a nun or not. She could be a pastafarian goddess even and you wouldn't have a clue.

Most nuns in ireland today are retirement age, which is why they appear not to have rehular jobs. When they were younger they worked in jobs just like everyone else their age and without kids did.

As I thought, no nuns working as doctors in Ireland.

recipio

VinLieger wrote: »

Interview with Kearns yesterday, when in Holles street discussions on sterilisations are between consultant and patient and that's it, however he has performed 2 in Vincents and always discussed it with the medical director prior to performing it. That indicates 2 very different standards of practice in either hospital

The traditional procedure was to apply to an 'Ethics Commitee' for approval - correct me if this is no longer the case but I don't think NMH do dozens of clip steriliations weekly which would be normal in a UK hospital. I am quoting from an anecdote by Fintan O' Toole in the IT on Monday who asserted that the procedure was not covered by a medical card.

ohnonotgmail

recipio wrote: »

The traditional procedure was to apply to an 'Ethics Commitee' for approval - correct me if this is no longer the case but I don't think NMH do dozens of clip steriliations weekly which would be normal in a UK hospital. I am quoting from an anecdote by Fintan O' Toole in the IT on Monday who asserted that the procedure was not covered by a medical card.

Fintan was referring to the situation more than 20 years ago. Times have changed thankfully.

VinLieger

recipio wrote: »

The traditional procedure was to apply to an 'Ethics Commitee' for approval - correct me if this is no longer the case but I don't think NMH do dozens of clip steriliations weekly which would be normal in a UK hospital. I am quoting from an anecdote by Fintan O' Toole in the IT on Monday who asserted that the procedure was not covered by a medical card.

Transcript of the interview here if you care to take a peek, no mention of an ethics comittee

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2017/04/26/wheres-the-memorandum-of-understanding/

BlinkingLights

Well, you'd hardly expect much more from a group of parties that presided over banning condoms for decades and turned a blind eye to just about anything you can think of.

gizmo81

I don't understand how the Minister of Health and the Master and Board of Holles Street cannot understand the symbolism in this move.

These religious orders were never put on trial and following the Ryan report they haven't abided by the recommendations. They haven't contributed to the compensation scheme.

Handing back the care of our women and children symbolically is a step too far when they haven't even been held accountable for the horrors of the past.

pilly

The Lord Major was on the radio today saying there was a meeting this evening and the Archbishop was chairing it? Did I hear that right? because I nearly crashed the car when I heard it

aloyisious

pilly wrote: »

The Lord Major was on the radio today saying there was a meeting this evening and the Archbishop was chairing it? Did I hear that right? because I nearly crashed the car when I heard it

He's the chair of the NMH. The Archbishop of Dublin has had the post since 1936.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwib-IDLjMPTAhWDKsAKHbJ0ClMQFggyMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nmh.ie%2Fabout-us%2Fcorporate.201.html&usg=AFQjCNGBLM7MLdqqrif7cnQhKURQnuVP5g

pilly

Ah stop, I give up!

You couldn't make it up.

jonsnow

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/minister-urges-broad-discussion-on-ownership-in-health-service-1.3062635


Minister for Health Simon Harris has called for a “discussion” on ownership in the health service, which could lead to lead to hospitals moving from religious to State control.Mr Harris said he intended to bring proposals to Government to have a broader discussion about ownership in the health service, similar to that seen in recent years in education.

The forum on patronage and pluralism set up by former Labour minister for education Ruairí Quinn was a useful model to follow, he suggested.
The report of the forum recommended in 2012 that religious schools in 28 areas divest to multinational patrons, though progress in giving effect to this has been slow.


In the ongoing controversy over the proposed relocation of the National Maternity Hospital (NMH) to St Vincent’s Hospital, Mr Harris rejected calls for the State to compulsorily acquire the site from its owners, the Sisters of Charity. A CPO was not the ideal situation, he said, because it would lead to legal difficulties “for years”, when use of the site was being offered free.
He said the Cabinet endorsed his call for “cool heads” in the row and repeated his plea for a month of “calm” during which the issues surrounding the move can be teased out with the two hospitals.


God this guy is so patronising. I never liked him and now I loathe him.He wants a "discussion" on possibly at some distant point transferring hospitals from religious control based on ruairi quinns failed talking shop model approach but right now when it actually matters we should "calm down dears" and allow a brand new flagship hospital be given into the catholic churches control today on a greenfield site.

What the medical and political establishments cant seem to get around their heads is that the irish people at this juncture are prepared to live however begrudgingly with the catholic church having an outsized influence on hospitals and schools which they fund which are already established due to the difficulty and costs inherent in untangling them but what they will no longer countenance is new institutions being established on this basis because then they know that nothing has changed in official ireland and this will be the set up forever

pontoonz

has anyone seen that really weird nun video going around on facenook?

marienbad

Why would the State hand a billion pound revenue earning resource over to anyone ? And then fund all the cost of running it - in perpetuity Take the hit for all the claims , malpractice or other wise .

And assume all will work out and why ? Because Mother Superior knows best ?

And there I was thinking our generation's trama of botched caesareans , refused tubal ligations, back street vasectomies , unnecessary peripartum hysterectomies ,customs officers opening private mail and seizing condoms.
and the lonely boat to London was coming to an end - but oh was I mistaken .

And just as I don't want as Doctor advising me on law I don't want a lawyer (or a nun ) advising me on medicine - So Dr Rhona your reassurances means less to me than those obcures figures that failed to save Savita's life

And all this rammed through that unashamedly by a Minister supports the right to life campaign ! Only in Ireland .

BlinkingLights

As far as I'm concerned this is a display of arrogant contempt for public will and ignoring recent history.

This is €300,000,000 of our money being handed over to a religious organisation.

I assume this went out to tender as per EU requirements?

Or, are we just gifting money?!

I'm absolutely fed up with the political system here. It's just the same old stinking rotten mess again and again and again.

Won't be giving with FG or FF any preferences ever again.

We should just change the national motto to "rinse and repeat"

#Enough

VinLieger

Very interesting comments by the Lord Mayor

http://www.thejournal.ie/maternity-hospital-row-3360622-Apr2017/

Saying the board was intimidated and bullied, after hearing Rhona Mahoneys interview yesterday im in no doubt who was doing the bullying

Call me Al

So Peter Boylan has resigned. He's doing a great interview with Pat Kenny right now.
I feel so let down by our DOH right now.

Beechwoodspark

Boylan has resigned from the board. Said on pat Kenny that it is a scandal that the state would gift a hospital costing hundreds of millions to a religious order. Also said the nuns got almost everything they wanted from the negotiations.

ProfessorPlum

I'm almost amazed that this issue is only coming to a head now. The state has been building new extensions and upgrades to hospitals and schools on religious owned lands since the foundation of the state. Many of these religious owned buildings are unrecognisable from their original state - the bit that the religious paid for themselves. The capital expenditure on these buildings has been paid for by the state but owned by the religious. And incredibly the religious then get to charge the state rent in many cases. This isn't solely a SVUHG issue. It's across the board. So in that respect the minister has a point. We need to come up with a plan to get the religious out of the ownership and running of state schools and hospitals across the board. As it stands, the state is enabling their continued involvement by funding upgrading to their buildings and facilities.

gaius c

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

I'm almost amazed that this issue is only coming to a head now. The state has been building new extensions and upgrades to hospitals and schools on religious owned lands since the foundation of the state. Many of these religious owned buildings are unrecognisable from their original state - the bit that the religious paid for themselves. The capital expenditure on these buildings has been paid for by the state but owned by the religious. And incredibly the religious then get to charge the state rent in many cases. This isn't solely a SVUHG issue. It's across the board. So in that respect the minister has a point. We need to come up with a plan to get the religious out of the ownership and running of state schools and hospitals across the board. As it stands, the state is enabling their continued involvement by funding upgrading to their buildings and facilities.

Line in the sand.
This is a brand new hospital.

Also more likely to have religious interference in the maternity hospital.

ProfessorPlum

gaius c wrote: »

Line in the sand.
This is a brand new hospital.

Also more likely to have religious interference in the maternity hospital.

Absolutely. The line in the sand should apply across the board. And believe me, the religious are well able to interfere in general hospitals and schools.

I guess the ownership issue probably wasn't seen as an issue when the plans for this hospital were being drawn up as it was and is the norm. How the situation ever got to be 'the norm' is astounding.
The hospital is being built as a 'new' hospital, but really it's an extension of SVUH. It's a new specialty being added to their bow. Like if you built a new neurosurgical unit over there.

ellejay

Boggy Turf wrote: »

Bloody hell, thats a shaky deal. Do our civil servants have a clue?

Kieran Mulvey should be shot with with balls of his own s h i t e for negotiating that farce of a deal.

lawred2

Call me Al wrote: »

So Peter Boylan has resigned. He's doing a great interview with Pat Kenny right now.
I feel so let down by our DOH right now.

DOH = Department of Health?

Being let down by our department of health is nothing new I'm afraid