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The NMH at St. Vincents

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    #662
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,401 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    The attitude will pretty much be that all these 'important' people should just stay the course and the hoi polloi will eventually calm down and move on to the next scandal..


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    #663
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Its like the Holy Catholic Ireland of yesteryear is alive and kicking!

    ...and pulling the strings :-(


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    #664
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    Call me Al wrote: »
    So Peter Boylan has resigned. He's doing a great interview with Pat Kenny right now.
    I feel so let down by our DOH right now.

    And yet again a whistleblower is shafted.


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    #665
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    ProfessorPlum wrote: »
    I'm almost amazed that this issue is only coming to a head now. The state has been building new extensions and upgrades to hospitals and schools on religious owned lands since the foundation of the state.
    It's come at exactly the wrong time for the departments who would rather rubber-stamp this stuff and let it go.

    If this was a normal hospital there would probably be a little fuss, but not a lot.

    If the order involved was one of the "clean" ones who had no allegations against them, again, would probably not be an issue.

    If the order just owned the land but had no presence on the board, probably not an issue.

    If the state maintained complete ownership and domain over the hospital and paid a nominal ground rent to the order, not a big deal.

    If Ireland had a good record of caring for women in the medical and maternity sense, it would be less of a problem.

    But all of this crap has come together in a single place.

    At a time when the state's poor record and attitude in relation to women and maternity services has never been more in the public focus, they have decided to build a maternity hospital entirely out of hundred of millions in taxpayers' money, then hand over that hospital in its entirety, to be owned and run, by a body which is heavily influenced by a religious order; an order who has an appalling record of abuse when it comes to women and children and who have failed to pay millions in compensation to the victims of that abuse.

    The only good thing in this entire scenario is the plan to build a modern maternity hospital. That's sorely needed.
    But everything else about the plan is a complete farce. I like Simon Harris, but I'm blown away that he doesn't seem to understand what's wrong with giving a maternity hospital to a religious order. Especially one with a history of abusing women & children.


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    #666
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,639 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    "Whatever confidence I had in the agreement is almost completely gone now, particularly after the statements by Bishop Kevin Doran at the weekend around Cannon Law and the hospital being Catholic property."

    F*ckin' Journal.ie.


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    #667
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,401 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    seamus wrote: »
    But everything else about the plan is a complete farce. I like Simon Harris, but I'm blown away that he doesn't seem to understand what's wrong with giving a maternity hospital to a religious order. Especially one with a history of abusing women & children.

    100%.

    Unless he's a god boy and thinks only nice things about religious orders (which is possible) it amazes me that he hasn't seen this coming. Even if he is a deluded god boy - it further amazes me that he didn't have the political nous to smell this mess coming down the line!

    Or is it a case that he expected the respective boards to hold the line and that nobody would go public?

    Maybe Peter Boylan was too late voicing his opinions. Maybe his time was when this 'deal' was first mooted.


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    #668
    gaius c
    Registered Users Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭gaius c


    lawred2 wrote: »
    100%.

    Unless he's a god boy and thinks only nice things about religious orders (which is possible) it amazes me that he hasn't seen this coming. Even if he is a deluded god boy - it further amazes me that he didn't have the political nous to smell this mess coming down the line!

    Or is it a case that he expected the respective boards to hold the line and that nobody would go public?

    Maybe Peter Boylan was too late voicing his opinions. Maybe his time was when this 'deal' was first mooted.

    Harris is just a lightweight who wanted a good news photo op and to hell with any future consequences with it.


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    #669
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,401 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    gaius c wrote: »
    Harris is just a lightweight who wanted a good news photo op and to hell with any future consequences with it.

    yeah well he didn't exactly get that did he?


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    #670
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 18,161 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    I havent marched for water or anything else but ill bloody march for this one


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    #671
    gaius c
    Registered Users Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭gaius c


    lawred2 wrote: »
    yeah well he didn't exactly get that did he?

    Nope. Certainly made a hames of this gamble.


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    #672
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    lawred2 wrote: »
    yeah well he didn't exactly get that did he?

    I actually think he will have, I've a sinking feeling that this is going to go ahead. The arrogance everyone is showing around it is unreal from the government to the church to the current board.

    I've often heard of the arrogance of people higher up in the medical profession but this week is the 1st time ever I've seen it in full throttle.

    They actually don't give a fcuk about what people think. Let alone care about mothers and babies. They just want their shiny new hospital.


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    #673
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    VinLieger wrote: »
    I havent marched for water or anything else but ill bloody march for this one

    +1000


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    #674
    Parchment
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭Parchment


    I emailed Minister Harris last week. Didnt even get an acknowledgement (automated or other) from his office. Speaks volumes.


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    #675
    Walter H Price
    Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭Walter H Price


    This is a truly depressing little country :(


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    #676
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 17,066 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    It would seem that Rhona Mahony has been lying through her teeth in relation to the implementation of the Catholic ethos in this proposed facility.

    Peter Boylan's interview on newstalk was yet again eye opening. He was audibly upset at the end of the interview as well.

    There has been it would seem a concerted effort on the part of the government and the Board of the National maternity Hospital to put this issue to bed with disinformation before it is properly discussed.

    A new hospital needs to be built but it needs to be done correctly. In my experience (my wife and I have had two children both born in Holles Street) the hospital does need to be replaced but it is hardly poorly run or drastically under resourced.

    As with everything, you should always measure twice and cut once, right now the first measurements just don't add up.

    Glazers Out!



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    #677
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,731 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    If you want to get more info, tune into the Sean O'Rourke podcast for today (discussing the hospital) and listen to (deleted Dr's name, inserted Councillor Claire Byrne) say she apparently didn't know that the trust run by the Sisters of Charity will get ownership of the hospital. She only apparently became aware of the meaning of this (that the nuns own the trust) after one of the other guests explained it to Sean, and didn't seem to have grasped that to be a fact even though she had approved the deal in Nov and more recently again last night.

    Personally I reckon the only way to change the deal is to rain letters and Emails of disgust on Simon Harris, that he must consider his position as a Minister in Govt and that all the other Ministers should be similarly blitzed. Shut their Email systems down to show disgust with their attitude using YOUR money for the financial benefit of the sisters order. Keep in mind that the building to be paid for by YOU AND I ostentatiously for the benefit of pregnant women, can be on the orders property portfolio. It may well be time for placard protests at locations around the country, incl the two hospitals.

    Edit.... please ignore any reference I made to Dr Mahoney in Para 1 above. The woman guest on the Sean O'Rourke Show was Councillor Claire Byrne, and NOT Dr Mahoney.... It was an error on my part to say Dr Mahoney was on the show or made any statement on it today.


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    #678
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 18,161 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    aloyisious wrote: »
    If you want to get more info, tune into the Sean O'Rourke podcast for today (discussing the hospital) and listen to Dr Mahoney say she apparently didn't know that the trust run by the Sisters of Charity will get ownership of the hospital. She only apparently became aware of the meaning of this (that the nuns own the trust) after one of the other guests explained it to Sean, and didn't seem to have grasped that to be a fact even though she had approved the deal in Nov and more recently again last night.

    Got a link? Wasn't able to find the part with her specifically


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    #679
    groovyg
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭groovyg


    aloyisious wrote: »
    If you want to get more info, tune into the Sean O'Rourke podcast for today (discussing the hospital) and listen to Dr Mahoney say she apparently didn't know that the trust run by the Sisters of Charity will get ownership of the hospital. She only apparently became aware of the meaning of this (that the nuns own the trust) after one of the other guests explained it to Sean, and didn't seem to have grasped that to be a fact even though she had approved the deal in Nov and more recently again last night.

    .
    Was that not the green party councillor on Sean O Rourke show this morning?


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    #680
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    aloyisious wrote: »
    If you want to get more info, tune into the Sean O'Rourke podcast for today (discussing the hospital) and listen to Dr Mahoney say she apparently didn't know that the trust run by the Sisters of Charity will get ownership of the hospital. She only apparently became aware of the meaning of this (that the nuns own the trust) after one of the other guests explained it to Sean, and didn't seem to have grasped that to be a fact even though she had approved the deal in Nov and more recently again last night.

    Personally I reckon the only way to change the deal is to rain letters and Emails of disgust on Simon Harris, that he must consider his position as a Minister in Govt and that all the other Ministers should be similarly blitzed. Shut their Email systems down to show disgust with their attitude using YOUR money for the financial benefit of the sisters order. Keep in mind that the building to be paid for by YOU AND I ostentatiously for the benefit of pregnant women, can be on the orders property portfolio. It may well be time for placard protests at locations around the country, incl the two hospitals.

    I admire your enthusiasm Al but don't think emails are the way forward, doesn't have any effect on them. Protest definitely the way forward.

    If this country can get out protesting about tiny water charges we should be ashamed if we don't get out on the street over this.


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    #681
    Call me Al
    Registered Users Posts: 3,028 ✭✭✭Call me Al


    groovyg wrote: »
    Was that not the green party councillor on Sean O Rourke show this morning?

    Yes. That was NMH board member and Green Party member Claire Byrne.


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    #682
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,731 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Got a link? Wasn't able to find the part with her specifically

    My apologies. I got the woman guest's name very wrong... It was Claire Byrne I heard. She said she'd been at the Nov meeting where the initial vote took place and at last night's vote, and was not aware until today that the nuns own the trust. I had an "oh ****, she cannot be saying that" moment.

    I've opened the "Today With Sean O'Rourke" show podcasts for today and can't seem to get it working sound and visual-wise. The spinning circle was showing to indicate something was happening somewhere but not for me.


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    #683
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,731 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    nullzero wrote: »
    Rhona Mahony not knowing the above negates my statement that she appeared to be lying through her teeth, although is it not incumbent upon her to be conversant with these things?
    I'm not sure if which is worse, lying or just being ignorant of the facts.

    My apologies, my mistake. it was NOT Dr Mahoney, it was Councillor Claire Byrne.


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    #684
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,731 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    groovyg wrote: »
    Was that not the green party councillor on Sean O Rourke show this morning?

    It was. My apologies. I got it very wrong.


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    #685
    Boggy Turf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 427 ✭✭Boggy Turf


    pilly wrote: »
    And yet again a whistleblower is shafted.

    There are some disgusting people running this country.


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    #686
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,662 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    aloyisious wrote: »
    My apologies, my mistake. it was NOT Dr Mahoney, it was Councillor Claire Byrne.

    I think there were two sections today, I listened to Rhona Mahony and I think it was Nicolas Kearns on Sean O'Rourke (missed some of it so can't confirm exactly what was said though, but it's available to listen back to.) but would Claire Byrne have been at the November meeting, is she on the board too?


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    #687
    Call me Al
    Registered Users Posts: 3,028 ✭✭✭Call me Al


    volchitsa wrote: »
    I think there were two sections today, I listened to Rhona Mahony and I think it was Nicolas Kearns on Sean O'Rourke (missed some of it so can't confirm exactly what was said though, but it's available to listen back to.) but would Claire Byrne have been at the November meeting, is she on the board too?
    Yes she's on the board. I have no reason to think she wasn't present for such an important meeting, but she has a small baby by the sounds of things. She might have not been available at the time. I didn't hear the full interview.
    Either way she voted again last night to accept the deal. But it begs the question as to why she didn't know. This type of thing is basic stuff when you're on a board of this profile.


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    #688
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,731 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    volchitsa wrote: »
    I think there were two sections today, I listened to Rhona Mahony and I think it was Nicolas Kearns on Sean O'Rourke (missed some of it so can't confirm exactly what was said though, but it's available to listen back to.) but would Claire Byrne have been at the November meeting, is she on the board too?

    Umm.... I don't know now. This piece is on the "Sean O'Rourke Show" podcast items list.... Dr. Peter Boylan Resigns
    There has been a development this morning in the ongoing row over the location of the new national maternity hospital at the st.vincents hospital site in dublin. As we heard in the news headlines former master of holles street peter boylan told newstalk earler that he has resigned from the board with immediate effect.

    Joining us this morning were Labour party leader Brendan Howlin and two board members of the National Maternity Hospital – Sinn Féin councillor Micheal MacDonncha and Green party councillor Clare Byrne – both of whom were at the meeting last night..

    ................................................................................................................

    I'm more embarrassed/confused than ever on who said what today. The only thing I'm fairly certain of is that the male-guest I listened to replied to a SO'R question explaining who owned the trust and the female-guest said she was not aware of that til then. The woman-guest said she was at the Nov meet and the mayor didn't attend (board) meetings.


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    #689
    boombang
    Registered Users Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭boombang


    Boylan's letter. Pretty uncompromising

    image.jpg


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    #690
    groovyg
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭groovyg


    Call me Al wrote: »
    Yes. That was NMH board member and Green Party member Claire Byrne.


    She has been a member of board member for three years and unaware that St. Vincent's Hospital Trust is the Sisters of Charity :mad:

    The interview is up now on their website http://www.rte.ie/radio1/today-with-sean-o-rourke/

    At 21 minutes in
    Brendan Howlin says 4 will be appointed by Sisters of Charity and 4 by NMH and she interjects saying 4 will be appointed by St Vincents , B Howlin then says the St Vincents Trust which is the Sisters of Charity to which she replies
    well my understanding is that the sisters of charity will have no input
    he then clarifies again that the St Vincents Trust is the Sisters of Charity.

    Its starting to look like there are people on that Board who have no clue what they agreed to and they really did
    VinLieger wrote: »
    Reading Boylans comments on the whole deal it sounds to me like they read the cover, looked at the pretty pictures and then flicked to the back and signed it


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    #691
    ChikiChiki
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    VinLieger wrote: »
    I havent marched for water or anything else but ill bloody march for this one

    I've done the water marches on the basis of the enormous corruption with the setting up of IW but there are so many other things we need to march against :-(. This political system is badly broken and corrupted and needs a lot of fixing.

    Not in Ireland but protests against this have my full support.


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