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The NMH at St. Vincents
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One eyed Jack wrote: »I don't disrespect anyone who comes to a different conclusion than me about anything. I'd never be so childish. Are you still laughing now?
Now that is funny.
Maybe you should read over your posts in this thread.
On this page alone you refer disrespectfully to one poster as being insincere.0 -
The Easter ceremonies in our church were better attended this year then the last few years.
We have a new Archbishop and he's introduced several innovations which seem to be bringing people back including a Parish Council and a general clear out of all the old "cliques".
All the 6 schools in the area were involved to some extent in the services.
The children's (both primary and post primary) involvement was entirely voluntary and was an extra curricular activity and was over subscribed in each school.
Under this new Archbishop lay people will have much more influence and power then was the norm here before.
It's unfair and untrue and unjustified to describe all these people as a "bunch of rapists" as zebra3 does but if it makes him or her feel better about themselves to rant like that then ,what harm?
If you want to convince yourself that people volunteering to take part in the running of the parish, giving up hours and hours of their spare time to sit on committees and pore over accounts etc , are all doing it to stay on the right side of "granny", or if you think that you could persuade a teenager to volunteer to participate in something they don't like, then you don't own a teenager, simple as that.
Over on A&A I read page after page of a thread trying to explain away the fact that the hugest amount of people in this country ticked the Catholic box on the census.
From what I can gather, wishful thinking amongst secularists is that more than 3/4 of the country, people of all ages levels of education and profession had their census filled in by their elderly mother!
Is that it?
If you try to tell people that the Sisters of Charity will have the same relationship with this maternity hospital as they have with St Vincent's Hospital or any of its other health care facilities or Focus Ireland and that those facilities are not over run with Bible quoting rosary toting nuns, they seem to stick their fingers in their ears and stamp their feet and I don't really understand why?
I do not believe your last words, and your post makes me sadder than any other post here. Have read it several times and just sad and so blinkered.
Blind to the past? So many died and suffered .. so very many. Easter ceremonies are meaningless in this context. An empty vessel.0 -
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I do not believe your last words, and your post makes me sadder than any other post here. Have read it several times and just sad and so blinkered.
Blind to the past? So many died and suffered .. so very many. Easter ceremonies are meaningless in this context. An empty vessel.
Why would my post make you sad? Can you explain how my description of people participating in their chosen religion impacts you in such a way that you feel "sad"?
Can you explain how you feel I am "blinkered " ? I am fully cognisant of all the evil people that perpetrated many evil deeds in the Catholic Church but that doesn't change my belief in Jesus , why would you think it would?
Are you calling me an empty vessel? Why? You don't know me or anything about me?0 -
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I do not believe your last words, and your post makes me sadder than any other post here. Have read it several times and just sad and so blinkered.
Blind to the past? So many died and suffered .. so very many. Easter ceremonies are meaningless in this context. An empty vessel.
And that should stop us trying to maintain our faith in our God? Easter is the most important season for we believers. The ceremonies bring Jesus to our lives. Meaningless? Not to the hundreds that packed our church and the many people who are revitalised and working to rebuild our Christian community.
Your linking our faith in God to the dreadful behaviour of the past confuses me.0 -
Mira Ambitious Balloonist wrote: »And that should stop us trying to maintain our faith in our God? Easter is the most important season for we believers. The ceremonies bring Jesus to our lives. Meaningless? Not to the hundreds that packed our church and the many people who are revitalised and working to rebuild our Christian community.
Your linking our faith in God to the dreadful behaviour of the past confuses me.
Lots of things I see people doing make me feel "sad" but I don't think people should stop doing those things because of my "feelings", and I certainly don't think those who have a different opinion to me are "blinkered" just because I don't agree with them.
It's just Boards i suppose.0 -
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Mira Ambitious Balloonist wrote: »And that should stop us trying to maintain our faith in our God? Easter is the most important season for we believers. The ceremonies bring Jesus to our lives. Meaningless? Not to the hundreds that packed our church and the many people who are revitalised and working to rebuild our Christian community.
Your linking our faith in God to the dreadful behaviour of the past confuses me.
What has any of that got to do with patronage of the new hospital ? I wouldn't assume every practicing Catholic wants their religion to be a factor in their healthcare.0 -
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What has any of that got to do with patronage of the new hospital ? I wouldn't assume every practicing Catholic wants their religion to be a factor in their healthcare.
It has nothing to do with it but was in reply to an attempt to drag up past hurts and demean those with a faith, without reference to the topic. I would keep religion completely out of hospitals myself.0 -
infogiver wrote:The Easter ceremonies in our church were better attended this year then the last few years. We have a new Archbishop and he's introduced several innovations which seem to be bringing people back including a Parish Council and a general clear out of all the old "cliques". All the 6 schools in the area were involved to some extent in the services. The children's (both primary and post primary) involvement was entirely voluntary and was an extra curricular activity and was over subscribed in each school. Under this new Archbishop lay people will have much more influence and power then was the norm here before. It's unfair and untrue and unjustified to describe all these people as a "bunch of rapists" as zebra3 does but if it makes him or her feel better about themselves to rant like that then ,what harm? If you want to convince yourself that people volunteering to take part in the running of the parish, giving up hours and hours of their spare time to sit on committees and pore over accounts etc , are all doing it to stay on the right side of "granny", or if you think that you could persuade a teenager to volunteer to participate in something they don't like, then you don't own a teenager, simple as that. Over on A&A I read page after page of a thread trying to explain away the fact that the hugest amount of people in this country ticked the Catholic box on the census. From what I can gather, wishful thinking amongst secularists is that more than 3/4 of the country, people of all ages levels of education and profession had their census filled in by their elderly mother! Is that it? If you try to tell people that the Sisters of Charity will have the same relationship with this maternity hospital as they have with St Vincent's Hospital or any of its other health care facilities or Focus Ireland and that those facilities are not over run with Bible quoting rosary toting nuns, they seem to stick their fingers in their ears and stamp their feet and I don't really understand why?
Wow! All of that in reply to a one line post? Really?0 -
Wow! All of that in reply to a one line post? Really?
Hi pilly. There aren't any rules here about a maximum amount of words you can use when in replying to a post.
You seem to be somewhat "shocked" ("Wow! Really!") about that.
I suppose if you think that there should be some kind of rules about how long or short posts should be you could raise your concern in the Feedback forum?0 -
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https://my.uplift.ie/petitions/block-sisters-of-chairty-as-sole-owners-of-national-maternity-hospital?bucket
Petition to block takeover
How is an online petition supposed to block anything?0 -
whisky_galore wrote: »How is an online petition supposed to block anything?
Online petitions are the modern lazy equivalent of writing a "strongly worded letter" of the type people used to send to Radio Eireann to complain about Gay Byrne allowing Nell McCafferty or somesuch on to "blaspheme" on his daily show.
If you check out the website change.org it is a veritable graveyard for petitions that got a good start but died of starvation not long afterwards.0 -
Why would my post make you sad? Can you explain how my description of people participating in their chosen religion impacts you in such a way that you feel "sad"?
Can you explain how you feel I am "blinkered " ? I am fully cognisant of all the evil people that perpetrated many evil deeds in the Catholic Church but that doesn't change my belief in Jesus , why would you think it would?
Are you calling me an empty vessel? Why? You don't know me or anything about me?
My belief in the Lord Jesus is my life. Lived every day every hour in all my life as it has been all my life.
The Catholic Church stopped being the "church Jesus founded" many many centuries ago. When it became a political entity seeking power and money etc.
Jesus speaks very tellingly of this when He talks of the Scribes and Pharisees of His day.
Nor does the terrible evil done by the Church change my belief but! To carry on as if these things did not happen. The sheer uncaring and lack of penitence.
Names that carry shame; Letterfrack, Tuam, Bessborough, Sean Ross Abbey. Glossed over.
Carrying on as if nothing had been wrong.
As this event clearly shows. No shame, just more of the same, power seeking.
It was not simply evil people but the whole institution. Century after century. Not simply a few evil people but the entire policy and praxis.
Easter is a hollow sham in the way it is done now. We are a resurrection people if we really love Jesus, not just a flowery set of rituals once a year. Full churches are not an indication of deep true faith but a social event.
. Money that could feed and house needy folk thrown away on pretty fripperies.
Claiming it is for the Glory of God. NOT!
Living His love daily. Hourly.
Living His victory in our obedience to His Word, not blindly following a set of man made rules.0 -
Online petitions are the modern lazy equivalent of writing a "strongly worded letter" of the type people used to send to Radio Eireann to complain about Gay Byrne allowing Nell McCafferty or somesuch on to "blaspheme" on his daily show.
If you check out the website change.org it is a veritable graveyard for petitions that got a good start but died of starvation not long afterwards.
Well yes you would say that!
Feeling is running very high about this madness. Gives me more hope for Ireland than anything else.
Applauding the petition here and also all who vote with their feet and wallets .
Lazy? Nah! Lazy is different altogether...0 -
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My belief in the Lord Jesus is my life. Lived every day every hour in all my life as it has been all my life.
The Catholic Church stopped being the "church Jesus founded" many many centuries ago. When it became a political entity seeking power and money etc.
Jesus speaks very tellingly of this when He talks of the Scribes and Pharisees of His day.
Nor does the terrible evil done by the Church change my belief but! To carry on as if these things did not happen. The sheer uncaring and lack of penitence.
Names that carry shame; Letterfrack, Tuam, Bessborough, Sean Ross Abbey. Glossed over.
Carrying on as if nothing had been wrong.
As this event clearly shows. No shame, just more of the same, power seeking.
It was not simply evil people but the whole institution. Century after century. Not simply a few evil people but the entire policy and praxis.
Easter is a hollow sham in the way it is done now. We are a resurrection people if we really love Jesus, not just a flowery set of rituals once a year.
. Money that could feed and house needy folk thrown away on pretty fripperies.
Claiming it is for the Glory of God. NOT!
Living His love daily. Hourly.
Living His victory in our obedience to His Word, not blindly following a set of man made rules.
What fripperies? You sound very anti catholic in that comment. Catholics have long believed in decorating their place of worship, which you seem to have a great disdain for. As for violence connected to religion, you could pin that on any of the world religions. Life doesn't stop because of Letterfrack or Bessborough. They were national scandals, intensely covered by the media, reparations were made in many cases, but naturally people will carry on in their way of life and faith, to not do so would not help any victims in any way. Families participating in their own preferred way in Easter is nothing to be sneered at.0 -
Widdershins wrote: »What fripperies? You sound very anti catholic in that comment. Catholics have long believed in decorating their place of worship, which you seem to have a great disdain for. As for violence connected to religion, you could pin that on any of the world religions. Life doesn't stop because of Letterfrack or Bessborough. They were national scandals, intensely covered by the media, reparations were made in many cases, but naturally people will carry on in their way of life and faith, to not do so would not help any victims in any way. Families participating in their own preferred way in Easter is nothing to be sneered at.
Oh dear! Supports my point fully so thank you.
I am not sneering; far from it. But there we are. There are ways to live the life Jesus asks of us in simpler ways.
Just because something has always been done does not make it right. We are seeing a huge rise in poverty here; would far rather see food for the needy than costly flowers in a church. Very costly flowers.... far more of Jesus to obey. His teachings.
Life did end for very many. Period.
Prematurely and painfully. At the hands of those who above all should have known better, who set out to be the moral examples and dictators
"lest we forget.." And it may prevent future victims.
Commemorating the Easter Rising is one thing; no elegy for the ones who dies at the hands of the church.
Deeply thankful so many are outraged at this event.Gives hope for humanity
It really does!
Tuam was one step too far then. this is even more so. Of the world,worldly.
Takes the breath away. Maternity hospital in their hands? A sick joke.0 -
Oh dear! Supports my point fully so thank you.
I am not sneering; far from it. But there we are. There are ways to live the life Jesus asks of us in simpler ways.
Just because something has always been done does not make it right. We are seeing a huge rise in poverty here; would far rather see food for the needy than costly flowers in a church. Very costly flowers.... far more of Jesus to obey. His teachings.
Life did end for very many. Period.
Prematurely and painfully. At the hands of those who above all should have known better, who set out to be the moral examples and dictators
"lest we forget.." And it may prevent future victims.
Commemorating the Easter Rising is one thing; no elegy for the ones who dies at the hands of the church.
Deeply thankful so many are outraged at this event.Gives hope for humanity
It really does!
Tuam was one step too far then. this is even more so. Of the world,worldly.
Takes the breath away. Maternity hospital in their hands? A sick joke.
Calm down. You're not making much sense. You've just admitted many were outraged. You're not content that people aren't in a perpetual state of outrage. Leave Catholics alone to worship in their way. A few bunches of flowers for decoration is not profligate . People are not morally obliged to live like ascetics, it is up to the individual how and when they wish to contribute to charity, as many Catholics often do. Your preaching is worse than anything I've ever heard from a Catholic.
I had similar views when I first learned about the maternity hospital but it was pointed out that a couple of other hospitals in Dublin are managed by a religious order, so it might not be quite the cataclysmic event you're making it out to be.0 -
Widdershins wrote: »Calm down. You're not making much sense. You've just admitted many were outraged. You're not content that people aren't in a perpetual state of outrage. Leave Catholics alone to worship in their way. A few bunches of flowers for decoration is not profligate . People are not morally obliged to live like ascetics, it is up to the individual how and when they wish to contribute to charity, as many Catholics often do. Your preaching is worse than anything I've ever heard from a Catholic.
I had similar views when I first learned about the maternity hospital but it was pointed out that a couple of other hospitals in Dublin are managed by a religious order, so it might not be quite the cataclysmic event you're making it out to be.
No;many are horrified that an organisation that committed such offences and owes millions in reparation is being trusted and honoured again ie that we have learned nothing. So the future is tainted yet again.
Ah thank you! Kind soul indeed. I do not preach by the way. Your words are so very revealing and that is fine too.
It is as we thought it was. No awareness of the actual teachings of the Lord Jesus only of the church. Its ideas, its rules, its excuses.
Interesting
Over and out from me on this. I have learned so very much and thank you for that. I mean that.
Someone started a group once. "Jesus is not religion." I did not fully understand that then. Reading this thread I do now.
Praying for thee... Bless you!0 -
No;many are horrified that an organisation that committed such offences and owes millions in reparation is being trusted and honoured again ie that we have learned nothing. So the future is tainted yet again.
Ah thank you! Kind soul indeed. I do not preach by the way. Your words are so very revealing and that is fine too.
It is as we thought it was. No awareness of the actual teachings of the Lord Jesus only of the church. Its ideas, its rules, its excuses.
Interesting
Over and out from me on this. I have learned so very much and thank you for that. I mean that.
Someone started a group once. "Jesus is not religion." I did not fully understand that then. Reading this thread I do now.
Praying for thee... Bless you!
I had a feeling you were.0 -
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Oh dear! Supports my point fully so thank you.
I am not sneering; far from it. But there we are. There are ways to live the life Jesus asks of us in simpler ways.
Just because something has always been done does not make it right. We are seeing a huge rise in poverty here; would far rather see food for the needy than costly flowers in a church. Very costly flowers.... far more of Jesus to obey. His teachings.
Life did end for very many. Period.
Prematurely and painfully. At the hands of those who above all should have known better, who set out to be the moral examples and dictators
"lest we forget.." And it may prevent future victims.
Commemorating the Easter Rising is one thing; no elegy for the ones who dies at the hands of the church.
Deeply thankful so many are outraged at this event.Gives hope for humanity
It really does!
Tuam was one step too far then. this is even more so. Of the world,worldly.
Takes the breath away. Maternity hospital in their hands? A sick joke.
You start of saying not Catholic enough then give out bout the nuns running maternity hospital...they won't be doing 70's procedures or before in there...I'm sure anywhere that the church is involved in is watched closely by not just authority but by the public We all know how they carry on...
My sons are in a Catholic school,I couldn't care less,I tell him don't be relying on God,Jesus and prayers to help you,do it yourself.
!!!They are 7 and 4 years old!!!
God is already in their heads,not happy about that but it's harmless if my boys kno it's far from worth relying on.
BUT....I think we weeded out most or all of the bad of the church in the last 20 yrs or more and What's left is nice peaceful and harmless because Irish people are well wide to the church now they'd get away with nothing0 -
No;many are horrified that an organisation that committed such offences and owes millions in reparation is being trusted and honoured again ie that we have learned nothing. So the future is tainted yet again.
Ah thank you! Kind soul indeed. I do not preach by the way. Your words are so very revealing and that is fine too.
It is as we thought it was. No awareness of the actual teachings of the Lord Jesus only of the church. Its ideas, its rules, its excuses.
Interesting
Over and out from me on this. I have learned so very much and thank you for that. I mean that.
Someone started a group once. "Jesus is not religion." I did not fully understand that then. Reading this thread I do now.
Praying for thee... Bless you!
Are you a priest?0 -
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/magdalene-survivors-shocked-and-angered-after-government-grants-national-maternity-hospital-to-religious-order-786449.html
YOU GO LADIES! Wish I could join you. With you in heart and love..0 -
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http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/magdalene-survivors-shocked-and-angered-after-government-grants-national-maternity-hospital-to-religious-order-786449.html
YOU GO LADIES! Wish I could join you. With you in heart and love..
What do you think might happen in this new hospital?
Do you not think,from previous evidence,that the nuns who will run this hospital,will be watched closer than the majority of other maternity hospitals?
Therefore producing a much higher standard....church was never all bad,plenty of good church run schools and hospitals.0 -
It's been clarified over and over that the Sisters of Charity won't be running this new hospital yet the circle jerk of abuse and vilification of all things Catholic and religious continues unabated here - any excuse for an anti catholic rant.
I agree that the religious orders should withdraw from public service commitments such as education, healthcare etc and let the state provide and run our hospitals and schools . The Sisters of Charity should withdraw their offer of a site at St Vincent's now and let the state i.e. the taxpayer and those busy signing anti Sisters of Charity petitions go fund a site on the open market in Dublin0 -
Part of the problem is that Irish people violently react to the concept of taxes (and whatever taxes are taken end up down rat holes like union protected behemoths like transport and health sectors) which has played into the hands of religious orders because governments go running to them to outsource the cost of schools and hospitals.0
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Woodville56 wrote: »It's been clarified over and over that the Sisters of Charity won't be running this new hospital yet the circle jerk of abuse and vilification of all things Catholic and religious continues unabated here - any excuse for an anti catholic rant.
I agree that the religious orders should withdraw from public service commitments such as education, healthcare etc and let the state provide and run our hospitals and schools . The Sisters of Charity should withdraw their offer of a site at St Vincent's now and let the state i.e. the taxpayer and those busy signing anti Sisters of Charity petitions go fund a site on the open market in Dublin
Who cares if they run it or not, they own it. My tax money and everyone else was literally just gifted to a wealthy organisation that owes the state millions.
If it were any other organisation that got gifted this I'd say you would be up on arms.
But instead you like to chip it off your shoulder as anti Catholic.
I'm anti giving away my money , it's state infrastructure and shouldn't be handed over. Just like the m50 we payed some private company for forty times over.
Ridiculous stuff0 -
My belief in the Lord Jesus is my life. Lived every day every hour in all my life as it has been all my life.
The Catholic Church stopped being the "church Jesus founded" many many centuries ago. When it became a political entity seeking power and money etc.
Jesus speaks very tellingly of this when He talks of the Scribes and Pharisees of His day.
Nor does the terrible evil done by the Church change my belief but! To carry on as if these things did not happen. The sheer uncaring and lack of penitence.
Names that carry shame; Letterfrack, Tuam, Bessborough, Sean Ross Abbey. Glossed over.
Carrying on as if nothing had been wrong.
As this event clearly shows. No shame, just more of the same, power seeking.
It was not simply evil people but the whole institution. Century after century. Not simply a few evil people but the entire policy and praxis.
Easter is a hollow sham in the way it is done now. We are a resurrection people if we really love Jesus, not just a flowery set of rituals once a year. Full churches are not an indication of deep true faith but a social event.
. Money that could feed and house needy folk thrown away on pretty fripperies.
Claiming it is for the Glory of God. NOT!
Living His love daily. Hourly.
Living His victory in our obedience to His Word, not blindly following a set of man made rules.
This is your belief Graces.
Your entitled to your belief.
I'm entitled to mine.
Your belief doesn't make me feel "sad" and even if it did, I'm afraid my "feelings" about your beliefs are irrelevant. Your beliefs are not impacting on my life, my beliefs are not impacting on your life, so if you are "sad", then I wish you peace and happiness but it's not my concern and you need to deal with your sadness in a way that doesn't involve telling me that I'm "wrong" or that I should keep my beliefs to myself.
I will celebrate Easter as I wish, and you should do the same.
We are lucky that we live in a democracy where this is allowed.
Seasons greetings to you.0 -
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listermint wrote: »Woodville56 wrote: »It's been clarified over and over that the Sisters of Charity won't be running this new hospital yet the circle jerk of abuse and vilification of all things Catholic and religious continues unabated here - any excuse for an anti catholic rant.
I agree that the religious orders should withdraw from public service commitments such as education, healthcare etc and let the state provide and run our hospitals and schools . The Sisters of Charity should withdraw their offer of a site at St Vincent's now and let the state i.e. the taxpayer and those busy signing anti Sisters of Charity petitions go fund a site on the open market in Dublin
Who cares if they run it or not, they own it. My tax money and everyone else was literally just gifted to a wealthy organisation that owes the state millions.
If it were any other organisation that got gifted this I'd say you would be up on arms.
But instead you like to chip it off your shoulder as anti Catholic.
I'm anti giving away my money , it's state infrastructure and shouldn't be handed over. Just like the m50 we payed some private company for forty times over.
Ridiculous stuff
So in essence, you have an objection in principal to the state taking any site donation from a religious body irrespective of the purpose or assurances of non intervention ? There's an awful lot of state infrastructure built on lands owned originally by religious communities etc - that a problem for you too ? Need more sack cloth and ashes stuff from the religious groups to atone for their past misdeeds ? I'm all for the state i.e. the taxpayer providing its own healthcare and education facilities etc so let them at it. I also agree that the religious communities involved in the reparation payments should pay over the agreed settlement and leave it at that. If those who would like the state to buy out all the religious donated properties on which schools, hospitals, community and resource centers etc were built to assuage their high moral ground principals and anti church /anti religious sentiments then let's do the sums and see how the balance sheet looks . The church and religious orders need to refocus their efforts towards their true charism for those who have faith and let the state look after its sick and young. Let's have our secular state - the nirvana so many here seem to be so excited about !0
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