When did Ireland become a Republic?

yesto24

As the title asks.

When did Ireland become a Republic?

I say 1949. It came up elsewhere, where it was not the place to discuss it.

What say the rest of you?

Capt'n Midnight

Civil servants were still celebrating Empire Day and King George V's birthday in 2011.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119063591#Comment_119063591

God that's going back a long time!

dxhound2005

1949 is correct. But the official name of the country is Ireland. As registered with the United Nations which we joined in 1955.

Larbre34

Taoiseach John A. Costello announced the Government's intent to declare a Republic in Canada, in a fit of pique against their Governor General, who was an orange *******. There had already been extensive discussions by various parties of a desire to do this anyway.

The Republic of Ireland Act, 1948, was passed by the Oireachtas on 18 April 1949 and signed immediately by President O'Kelly. That was the date the State became a Republic.

yesto24

You would think that a date like this would be undisputed.

But I had someone politely disagree when I stated that Ireland became a Republic in 1949 and he reckoned he was not alone.

It would be interesting to see why he thinks this. Political ideology, stubbornness or trolling. Hopefully he comes over here and defends his argument.

randd1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119063919#Comment_119063919

It was in 1948.

I think the confusion has to do with passports. Until the declaration of becoming a Republic, we were still a part of the British Commonwealth. Therefore people born in and before 1948 were still, and still are as far as I know, eligible for British passports, as passports used to be issued based on your year of birth.

Once we became a Republic, that eligibility no longer existed, and was formally ended, and so from 1949 onwards, we could only be issued Irish passports.

But is was in 1948 that we declared ourselves a Republic.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119063717#Comment_119063717

Check out Article 4 of the Constitution

yesto24

Yeah 1948 or 1949 is debatable. This lad was waffling on about 1916 so I don't think he had a feeling for the finer points of Irelands history.

Itssoeasy

Am I misremembering it or did the House of Commons have to pass a bill to give effect to our bill in the dail ?

edit: or were we using the rest of the statute of Westminster from 1931 to cut the cord fully.

dxhound2005

AN STÁT AIRTEAGAL 4 Éire is ainm don Stát nó, sa Sacs-Bhéarla, Ireland.

THE STATE ARTICLE 4 The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland.

The version which is registered with the United Nations is "Ireland".

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058245910/when-did-ireland-become-a-republic

Well defining what you mean by a republic would be a start…. The constitution declares the name of the state to be Ireland or Eire and the Republic Of Ireland act 1949 re affirms this by not attempting to change it. The political games of adding a description does not change that. So there is no country called the Republic of Ireland and there never has be a legally binding declaration to be one at least in name.

In terms of governance there are many different styles out there calling themselves republics going all the way back to Rome. But we don’t really fit in because we are rather unique - we have a sovereign people, parliament derives its power from the people via the constitution and only the people can change the constitution, to my knowledge only Switzerland has the same concept.

So you could argue that in terms of governance Ireland has been a republic since the founding of the state and is in fact closer to the original concept than most modern republics today.

it all comes down to how you define it

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119064629#Comment_119064629

Declaring a Republic and enacting the legislation to make it legal and operative are two different things.

The latter happened on 18 April 1949. That's the day the State became a Republic.

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119063919#Comment_119063919

How can anyone defend his argument when you haven't told us what his position is? Other than he doesn't agree the Republic was promulgated in 1949?

What is his actual position?

Whatever it is, it's wrong and the Republic was declared in the Government of Ireland act. That's when it happened, that's the legislation and other than pointing that to your friend and explaining that feelings are trumped by facts?

There isn't much you can do.

dxhound2005

The Republic of Ireland Act, 1948. The Government of Ireland Act was a long time before that.

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119064713#Comment_119064713

The UK did pass the Ireland Act in 1949, but it was just to clear up their own legislation as Ireland officially declared itself a republic. It wasn't the case that we "needed" this legislation to make our declaration and law official - Ireland becoming a Republic was entirely our own business. But Britain needed to update their own laws to take the change in status into account. Up until that Act, they officially referred to us as "Eire" in their legislation, but this Act mandates that future legislation references are to use "Republic of Ireland" instead. Since 2000, they've referred to us by the official name of the country (in the English language) - "Ireland".

Gregor Samsa

In July 1945, James Dillon, an independent TD from Monaghan, asked in the Dáil "'Are we a Republic or are we not? That is what I want to know." Taoiseach Éamon de Valera replied: "We are, if the Deputy wants to know." At this response, Dillon retorted "Would anybody tell me when we became a Republic? It is remarkable to make an announcement of that kind so casually. May I ask when did we become a Republic? As a Deputy representing an Irish constituency I want to know, because nobody knows."

Dev just sat smiling in his seat.

However, the next week he gave this speech which contained a justification for his remark:

The State whose institutions correspond to these Articles is, it seems to me, demonstrably a republic. Let us look up any standard text on political theory, look up any standard book of reference and get from any of them any definition of a republic or any description of what a republic is and judge whether our State does not possess every characteristic mark by which a republic can be distinguished or reconginised. We are a democracy with the ultimate sovereign power resting with the people—a representative democracy with the various organs of State functioning under a written Constitution, with the executive authority controlled by Parliament, with an independent judiciary functioning under the Constitution and the law, and with a Head of State directly elected by the people for a definite term of office.

In the speech, Dev's argument is that since the Constitution came into effect in 1937 (which created the office of the President, directly elected by the electorate), and the office of the President was first filled by Douglas Hide on 25th June, 1938, we have been de facto a republic by any definition of the word (and he quotes a whole load of dictionaries and encyclopedias) since then. His argument is that being a "republic" is something that is classified by "observation of the State's institutions and an examination of its fundamental laws.", rather than a decision or announcement by any person.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1945-07-17/24/#spk_221

So it just goes to show you that the question of when we became a republic - and exactly what the definition of "becoming a republic" is - is one that has been rumbling on since the early foundations of the state.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119066266#Comment_119066266

The OP writes "This lad was waffling on about 1916 so I don't think he had a feeling for the finer points of Irelands history."

So that's his friends position on the matter, to summarise - Patrick Pearse et all read out the proclamation and hey presto, Ireland became a republic.

I suppose you couldn't blame his friend too much when you hear all the nationalist clap trap constantly on the go.

Badly Drunk Boy

The discussion originated here:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119058186/#Comment_119058186

petronius

There is not a definitive answer, you can pick which one you wish. I would say we became a republic with the removal of the governor-general (we took advantage of the abdication of the king to not appoint a replacement) and the appointment of a president under the 1936 constitution - so in december 1937.

As a sop to Clann na poblachta, a publicity stunt for the inter-party government to "announce" declare a republic in 1948 which the only effect was that we left the commonwealth (so really he was only announcing we were leaving the commonwealth!) and the UK government passed a bill recognising it in 1949.