RTÉ journalist found guilty of sexually assaulting woman as she slept

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076530#Comment_119076530

How do you know they're still happy with it after they fall asleep? How do you revoke consent when you're asleep?

They only out I can see here is if he genuinely didn't know she'd fallen asleep.

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076528#Comment_119076528

I wasn't there, so I'm not going to speculate how she was or wasn't feeling, but there's no set reaction to a traumatic experience, and no rules on how you're supposed to act.

SAMTALK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076541#Comment_119076541

Totally irrelevant to what I said

Amenhotep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075371#Comment_119075371

Disingenuous comparison ... he stopped as soon as she told him to stop ... he can be forgiven for assuming she would have given consent since she was already naked in his bed and they had been playing with each others genitals an hour earlier ... but again he stopped - this is the important part, sadly it seems the jury gave in to this "believe all women" and #MeToo nonsense ...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075426#Comment_119075426

unconscious! :D Gerrrup ourra dah!

SAMTALK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076554#Comment_119076554

No rules but basic human instinct

"The woman said she went back to sleep. Later that night he drove her home and over the following days she texted the defendant expressing annoyance at what had happened."

A few days later she seems to have some feelings towards what happened. Annoyance

realdanbreen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076548#Comment_119076548

Ffs, some of ye're love lives seem to be as exciting and off the cuff as a trade union meeting!

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076391#Comment_119076391

I said there is need for greater discussion of consent. Thst goes for men and women.

The point of failure in this case wasn't anything she did. It was the guy sexually assaultingbher while she was asleep.

Maybe you think she should have been explicit that consent is withdrawn when she's asleep, but thats the kindnof thing that should be known and should be discussed so everyone knows thst you can't consent when you're asleep.

Would you say you agree that you can't consent when you're asleep?

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076401#Comment_119076401

If that poster suggested he raped her, then I think they're incorrect.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076508#Comment_119076508

whoa now there

youre saying theres a grey area in needing to be sober to give consent?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076581#Comment_119076581

oooh, very edgy comeback!

How about this: "beats having sexual assault lives!"

I take it you're done discussing maturely and have nothing further to add to the conversation? Grand, so.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076394#Comment_119076394

Yes. When she was awake and could give consent and withdraw consent. It became not OK when she dozed off because she could no longer give/withdraw consent while asleep. So the assault took place specifically in the time when she was asleep, as far as I know. Are we in agreement on that much?

SAMTALK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076590#Comment_119076590

I dont see this as black and white as that. She went home with him, into bed, foreplay, no sex by agreement obviously but a maybe for the morning, He tried to initiate foreplay / sex with her and she said no and he stopped.

She then fell back asleep, now forgive me but this not seem to me to be the actions of someone who was traumatised

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076405#Comment_119076405

I'm at a disadvantage because I don't pretend to know what's in her mind. I can only go by the evidence we have. She certainly says she was traumatised, the law views what happened to her as sexual assault. You're saying you don't know her mind, but I think if push comes to shove, you don't believe her claims. Where I just don't know. The law knows whether the behaviour constitutes a sexual assault though.

I've said I don't assume he's necessarily a bad person, but if he didn't think he was committing a sexual assault, then he was mistaken about the law and consent. That's a tragedy. If he jad known more about consent, he could have woken her up the normal way you wake someone up, and tasked if she was on for the ride in the normal way and everything would have been fine. Tragic for both him and her, assuming he didn't intend to cause harm and was just mistaken -as many people in this thread also seem to be mistaken.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076615#Comment_119076615

You missed the crucial detail in you're retelling. You left out the word 'asleep'. How could you retell the story and leave out the crux of the whole issue?

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076644#Comment_119076644

Actually, I'd find it more difficult to believe that she went through all this out of spite and revenge and that she was not that traumatized at all.

It's more likely that she did this out of a genuine feeling of it needing to be done because of what she experienced. That is why I can sympathize with both parties here.

Other scenario is that she is touched and unstable and did it for whatever reason was in her head.

One other point to touch on: You say had he waited until awake and had they engaged in intercourse, all would be fine. We cant know this. Plenty examples of females making sexual assault allegations in these situations; real he said she said scenarios.

Maybe this man was damned if he did and damned if he didn't

Man Vs ManUre

Was the only reason they didn’t have sex initially because he couldn’t get a stiffy?? If so, and that then resulted in him getting the horn a bit later after a short nap, then that is a very costly case of brewers droop for this unfortunate young man.

facehugger99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075874#Comment_119075874

Considering your selective quotation marks - the irony in your post is off the scale.

facehugger99

Unfortunately for this guy, the jury was not made up entirely of Boards keyboard warriors or he would have gotten a medal instead of a conviction.

Calahonda52

The full summary of the VIS.

In her victim impact statement, the woman said she wanted to document the impact sexual violence had on her. She said she was sexually violated while sleeping. "This convicted man, used sexual violence as a method of violence towards me," she told the court. She said he had violated her body, her mind, her sense of self and her sense of security in the world. It had impacted, she said, on every facet of her life.

The woman said the night of the assault was the last night she would ever go to sleep believing she was safe and the thought someone would sexually violate her while sleeping was beyond comprehension. She said the stress and fear did not end when the attack ended and it had replayed again and again.

In the aftermath, she said she felt grief and distress beyond explanation and felt totally disconnected from reality. The woman said relationships with her family had become strained. She said she had lost her social circle and many friends and had not been able to progress in her career. She described to the court, becoming depressed and suicidal and making an attempt on her life.

The woman said she believed if society supported victims better, she would not have had to deal with such devastating losses. The only person responsible for the relationships and friendships she had lost was Ó Leidhin she said and yet she had been shamed and blamed because of what he did to her.

She said she had to pay for counselling sessions and doctor's appointments.

The woman said it had taken three years from the time she reported the assault before the trial took place. This was completely unacceptable she said and forced victims of sexual violence to be stuck in a state of trauma. Giving evidence and being cross examined was unbelievably distressing and she felt she was going to have a heart attack.

She said that giving her victim impact statement did not put an end to the trauma for her, and she would have to deal with it for the rest of her life. She said she would not forget it but she would not let it define her. She said she would leave behind everything unfounded and untruthful said to her in court, as well as all her pain, guilt, silence and shame, with the sexual offender who was responsible for it all.

Cdemess

Been reading through the comments and I keep getting Tommy underwear adverts popping up. I bet I get an evil look from a bus passenger.

Suckit

Did she fall asleep during their fondling and then wake again, or did she go asleep and then a while later he decided to try and fool around?

Do we know how much drink was taken, or if he was aware that she was asleep?

cap.in.hand.

I think she probably regretted and is beating herself up for letting him in her view take advantage of her in a sexual way including the foreplay but excitement and lust took over....for both of them..and then realisation setting in later and believing it was him taking advantage of her and couldn't/wouldn't live with that and knew she left her guard down.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076719#Comment_119076719

But let me just go for a quick snooze there next to man who violated me before the stress starts to get to me

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076671#Comment_119076671

Ah, you're gone from yer wan taking a case of genuine sexual assault and saying she might have made up an allegation if one hadn't happened. That's a possibility, I suppose, but not really worth accusing her of doing that since she was found to have been sexually assaulted.

Like, anyone might be 'touched' and mught make up any allegation at any moment. But that's not what happened here. I think you're cheapening the whole situation by suggesting she might have made up an allegation if we wasn't actually sexually assaulted.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076719#Comment_119076719

This reads very sincere and very impacting.

HeidiHeidi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076732#Comment_119076732

That's a nice story.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076755#Comment_119076755

No, I am simply saying that you cannot know what would have happened had they woken normally and resumed intimacy. That's all

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076765#Comment_119076765

I'm assuming thst if there wasn't n sexual assault, then she wouldn't have made an allegation of sexual assault. Is that unreasonable?

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076764#Comment_119076764

Would I be a good journalist?

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076773#Comment_119076773

Not at all. I would say that is logical. Just that you cannot know for certain.

Plenty people have made sexual assault allegations maliciously and erroneously.

Patrick2010

Haven’t read the whole thread but am I right in saying they both had a good few drinks, got intimate but she didn’t want to go all the way but suggested morning would be ok?

He woke up, decided to initiate something, she said no and they both went back to sleep.

The thing I don’t get is that she had a full year to think about this before going to the guards. At some stage she must have realized this was going to ruin his life? I understand a lot of posters believe he deserves jail and the end of his career because of a decision made in probably lasted only 10 seconds

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076875#Comment_119076875

The impact of the incident snowballed during the year. It affected her mental health, her relationships and her career. So, for her it wasn’t a 10 second incident. It was ongoing and had a negative impact on every aspect of her life.

realdanbreen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076606#Comment_119076606

Discussing maturely was done as you put it a long time back when the pitchfork/holier than thou brigade got on board.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076927#Comment_119076927

So far as I can see, plenty of posters are taking up a pitchfork against the woman who hasn't been convicted for any crime....

is_that_so

Shouldn't the title of this thread be changed? He's now a former RTE journalist.

Ardent

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076719#Comment_119076719

"The woman said relationships with her family had become strained. She said she had lost her social circle and many friends and had not been able to progress in her career."

I don't buy her claim of cause and effect here. Reminds me of some people I know who find it easier to blame others (in this case a year later) for problems in their life than it is to look in the mirror.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076801#Comment_119076801

Sure. Why are you bring up fake allegations in a situation where there was a real allegation?

Are we both happy to assume that of there wasn't a sexual assault, then yer wan wouldn't have made up an allegation of sexual assault?

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076947#Comment_119076947

Why not give us your take on it.....? So we can assess where the pitchfork brigade might be off?

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076875#Comment_119076875

She was asleep when he started initiating sex. He didn't wake her up and start. That's why it's sexual assault. Being asleep is a pretty crucial detail, wouldn't you agree?

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076974#Comment_119076974

You're getting muddled....I simply said you cannot know for sure that all would have been find n dandy had they woken up and resumed intimacy. No more no less.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076716#Comment_119076716

You forgot to say boards is turning into storm-front.

squigglestrebor

Christ this thread is mental. Its a weird story with lots of questions but he condemned himself by telling the truth. Getting on top of someone and feeling there tits without consent when thet are asleep is sexual assault , its just an actual literal fact ,extremely black and white and not one poster can dispute it. Now you can moan about changing the law about what constitutes sexual assault if you want and she may have went for him for nefarious reasons but he was stupid enough and creepy enough to do it. He was always going to be found guilty. Would any of the lads here do the same to a one night stand? Id think not to be honest!

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076947#Comment_119076947

She instigated charges against him...it would only be him that would or wouldn't get a conviction as a result

squigglestrebor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076233#Comment_119076233

There is a key bit that you have left out(not surprising) but there is a key difference between touching someone and getting on top of someone and touching them. He is an idiot.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076982#Comment_119076982

I don't claim to know for sure. That's why I said I'd assume...

And I would assume that had there not been a sexual assault, then there wouldn't have been an allegation. Because that's how it works almost every time. The ratio of false sexual assault allegations:sex, is miniscule.

Is this just an attempt to suggest she was 'touched'as another poster put it, or ae you saying there is like a 1 in a million chance so you can't technically discount it?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076975#Comment_119076975

He may have viewed it as acceptable however she was incapable of consent. On top of that, he's a guy she still has incredibly limited knowledge on so it was not a relationship where there were any explicit agreements on what they are okay with and what they are comfortable with. Clear enough?

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119077021#Comment_119077021

Certainly clearer than your first few posts!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076992#Comment_119076992

Eh you obviously haven’t read the whole 20 pages of posts- there’s a fair number of posters that would have done the same thing or at least profess that they would- although most of these are likely either simple trolls or creeps so socially retarded they’ll never be near a woman sexually without paying for it

squigglestrebor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119077038#Comment_119077038

Ah jaysis that is grim , I read the first few pages but it was depressing. Yeah to be fair to those posters theyd have no clue how they would act in that situation as its unlikely to have ever happened to them.

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119077001#Comment_119077001

If only there was a simple action he could have taken to avoid this, if only.