RTÉ journalist found guilty of sexually assaulting woman as she slept

sam t smith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074372#Comment_119074372

Do you ever get tired posting complete and utter scutter?

vegandinner

That woman sounds like a danger to society. I hope she doesn’t live near me or my family or friends.

walshb

I find it difficult to convict this man considering what happened straight after with her falling asleep, waking up and being driven home, initiating contact, meeting up, agreeing to disagree on what happened, and then a year later reporting to the cops....

I'd hate to think this was her doing this as some sort of 'eff you revenge scenario,' but from what we know, there was no violence, terror, intimidation used here. She woke to a man trying to be intimate with her after both having been intimate already, told him no and he stopped and they fell asleep.

Did this really need to go to court and for this man to now have his life ruined?

How many females have had similar scenarios where they would think that was a bit odd/off/scary/not right, but don't end up going to court over it.

tjhook

My default position is to put trust in what a jury has decided - they've heard and seen far more of the case than I have. I felt that way following the NI Paddy Jackson case, and I'd feel similarly in this case even though the outcome is different.

I like the principle that if you break a law, you take your punishment and then your debt to society is paid. However it doesn't apply to any crime tagged "sexual".

It may be that this offence lies on the milder end of the scale. If it is, and if he had instead been found guilty of slapping some randomer that he's had an argument with, I might consider that a more serious incident. But this case will probably ruin his life, follow him forever, even if the judge also thinks it's less serious. To be fair, it's theoretical for now as we won't know how serious/mild it is seen to be until the judge gives sentence.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076053#Comment_119076053

OK. Have it your way. Sleep is a type of unconscious as I see it but were agreed she was asleep in this case, right? So not awake and not able to consent until whenever she woke up, right?

In response to your second question about initiating sex with someone who is asleep: Sure. Lots of sex is initiated while one person is asleep. If that's thier bag then there's no problem. If it's not their bag, then it's sexual assault. If they've discussed it in advance, then there's consent. It they haven't discussed it then it's in the lap of the gods whether it will be greeted with appreciation or a conviction for sexual assault.

Hope that clears it up.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075426#Comment_119075426

No one on this thread or in the court case, has said that, or tried to have sex with an unconscious person.

Homelander

The details and timeline of the case do seem really unusual but at the root of it all, climbing on top of a sleeping stranger and groping them isn't acceptable.

I think people are equating two different scenarios together and summarizing that they're equal.

Having had sexual contact with an effective stranger earlier that night and later you attempt to rouse them subtly is one thing.

But it's absolutely not the same as them abruptly waking up to find you've climbed on top of them and are groping them.

Nothing as reported indicates it was the former so I'm not sure why people are concluding that it was or must have been.

Maybe I am missing something.

SAMTALK

But if he was intent on assaulting her would he have stopped ?

Also you missed my question about her going back asleep in the same bed as man she claims assaulted her shortly before ?

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076039#Comment_119076039

Oh she’ll seek damages now will she?

Give us the lotto numbers there while you’re at it pal.

Christ some of the incel, misogynistic bile being spouted here makes you wonder about how some people think when they’re holed up in a box room fighting with people on the internet.

walshb

It seems that he himself really convicted himself with his honesty on what happened, possibly believing that what happened was not sexual assault in the sense of real dangerous and predatory. There is always context and levels and shades to this, and he may have felt that what happened was him not in any way being a menace, or dangerous or wanting to hurt; evidenced by his stopping when she said no.

I cannot fathom how anyone could not feel some symapthy for him here. Doesn't mean you have no feelings for the female.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076055#Comment_119076055

The irony of you questioning anyone’s intelligence while you seem completely unaware of what consent is.

nullzero

In reality this situation isn't really something that should result in a conviction. He touched her she said stop, he complied. They had been engaged in similar or perhaps more intimate touching previously.

I think his biggest mistake was apologising as he was admitting a more serious wrong doing.

For all the usual suspects here beating their usual drums, there's no hope of getting a reasonable discussion on a topic like this from them so why bother? Nothing is ever taken on board, just let them be.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076131#Comment_119076131

She was asleep.

She can’t consent while sleeping.

Why do some people struggle with this fact?

SAMTALK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076134#Comment_119076134

And she said stop and he stopped. He apologised and said he was horny. It wasnt some random he saw flat out unconscious on the street and decided he would have sex with her

This girl was so traumatised she went back asleep in the same bed as him.

realdanbreen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076130#Comment_119076130

I'm well aware of what consent is.

Consent was when she was OK with him feeling her up in his bed which she got into it.

The bit that throws me is when he tried it again shortly after,she said no, he stopped but over the next 12 months she became suicidal, and traumatised .

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076154#Comment_119076154

But he was doing it while she slept!

When she is sleeping, it does not give him the right to do whatever he wants to her until she wakes up and says stop. He just helped himself while she was not in a position to say otherwise.

What part of that is so difficult for you?

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076178#Comment_119076178

Don’t think you’re aware of what consent is at all.

You also conveniently miss the part where he just helped himself while she was in no position to tell him otherwise. Why is that?

Do you think it’s ok to commit sexual acts on anyone you see fit while they sleep and are not in a position to say no?

SAMTALK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076189#Comment_119076189

The part where she was so traumatised that she tried to kill herself , yet took a year to report and stayed in the same bed of the man she claims assaulted her ' and then got into a car with him and let him know where she lived !

"The court heard that she was annoyed at the man and told him that she was clearly asleep."

"he woman said she went back to sleep. Later that night he drove her home and over the following days she texted the defendant expressing annoyance at what had happened."

You said he just helped himself, How do you know he was not trying to pleasure her ?

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076178#Comment_119076178

So in your mind consent is permanent and can't be revoked? consent then applies to every situation (asleep, showering, on the bus)?

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076085#Comment_119076085

I wonder did something happen her before reporting him that caused her to go on a man hating spree? She has ruined the mans reputation, he'll never get a journo job again and anyone googling his name will bring up that he's now a convicted sex offender. If there was a gofundme to support this man I would contribute.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076134#Comment_119076134

She engaged in sexual activity (albeit non penetrative) in his bed before she fell asleep, he touched her while she slept, she awoke and said stop he did and then apologized, she proceeded to sleep the rest of the night in his bed after this supposedly "traumatic" situation.

It's the nodding back off for the rest of the night that makes me question the trauma she supposedly suffered.

I would suggest that if she has issues surrounding being touched the bed of a man she just met and engaged in intimate activities with isn't an ideal place for her to sleep.

This case sets a precedent now, for better or worse.

Men will need to have some sort of consent form that they ask any woman they meet to sign before touching them eventually. To be honest I hope that happens sooner rather than later, by the time my little son is old enough to go out and meet people I hope men aren't exposed to this type of thing as much as I want my daughter to be safe when she's out when she's older.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076217#Comment_119076217

She. Was. Sleeping.

He specifically said he was horny. Nothing to do with her. He just got a raging horn and, as I said, helped himself.

If you play with that fire and you get burned because the law is very clear on this matter, as highlighted by a jury of his peers.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074655#Comment_119074655

if we'd been fighting by agreement until you said it, yep

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076131#Comment_119076131

Yeah, online debate has morphed into one side talking to each-other, and the other side talking to each-other, and a few pointless back and forths between the sides, that lead to nothing.

The whole thread can be easily summarized:

"He raped a woman while she slept"

"No, it's a bit more complex than that, he didn't rape her, he fondled her while sleeping, which they'd likely done previously in the night, and stopped once she rejected his advances"

"He raped a woman while she slept"

And around and around we go.

realdanbreen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076196#Comment_119076196

Are you seriously this nieve.

She was fine with him feeling her up.

He then tried it again shortly after and she said no, he stopped.

Over the course of the next 12 months she becomes traumatised, suicidal, can't get the luas etc(all of which could have been brought about by any number of factors)

When he was questioned 12 months later he openly outlined what happened that night thinking I presume that this whole episode is nuts!

jimwallace197

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076127#Comment_119076127

Im not your pal. And only a fool would think she wasn't being OTT for any other reason than to maximize how much she'll get out of this. Wouldnt be surprised if this is what she intended when they met up to 'discuss' what happened a while after the incident. Why on earth would you meet up with someone whom you believed sexual assualted you instead of going to the gards immediately & pressing charges. Her behaviour isnt consistent for one bit in someone whom has been properly sexually assaulted. Doesnt take a Sherlock holmes to figure this one out.

Also, the only one stuck in a box room typing away vigorously fighting with other posters is yourself. Look at how much you've already posted on this thread. Like you're on a mission to become no.1 SJW.

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076248#Comment_119076248

So, we step outside a club, few digs are thrown, we go back inside, Later that night you're passed out at the table, I run up and start boxing the head off you and you tell me to stop and I do, does the fact that the first part was consensual make the second part legal?

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076123#Comment_119076123

The court rules he already did assault her at that stage. So he might well have assaulted her inadvertently which is a tragedy (as I said a few posts ago.

I also said earlier that the brain is a weird thing. Latent trauma often takes time (years or decades in some cases) to manifest. That's a pretty well established phenomenon. Do you know much about trauma?

SAMTALK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076245#Comment_119076245

The law if very clear on the matter if all evidence points to it, but you still havent addressed the fact she stayed in the same bed as him, got into his car and then met up with him a few days later, not to mention taking a year to report it . That doesnt sound very traumatised to me, surely she would have jumped out of the bed, got out of house as quick as possible, and most definately not met up with him a few days later, not to mention the year before reporting

I will be typing out a questionnaire for any males I know to get signed before they try to talk / kiss/ have sex with anyone.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119076291#Comment_119076291

You can't legally consent to a fist fight though, so this is another terrible argument.