RTÉ journalist found guilty of sexually assaulting woman as she slept

vegandinner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075200#Comment_119075200

Getting in bed with the guy

vegandinner

How do you know what he thought?

realdanbreen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075200#Comment_119075200

Well I'm sure he regrets being up front and honest when questioned. She may in years to come, obviously after she gets over her trauma, regret that the man's career and reputation were left in tatters.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075200#Comment_119075200

In her own mind, according to the narrative, that she went home with a strange man who sexually assaulted her. We know that a good man all but lost his job over a statement like that in past, but the truth is the truth. Funnily too, in civil law a victim can still be judged to be culpable for their actions even if they are a victim. Obviously this isn't civil law, but I find the outrage about such judgments amusing, seeing as it's a part of the law in civil matters.

Contributory negligence is a principle of law whereby an injured party may have contributed to their own injury by acting negligently when confronted with apparent and known circumstances. The extent of the blame for an accident in which you were injured is determined by contributory negligence.

Teacher2020

She wasn't injured in an accident - she was sexually assaulted.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075040#Comment_119075040

The entire court case and thread are about consent ffs.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075171#Comment_119075171

Yeah I know the difference between sex and sexual assault. Maybe google could help you out.

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075245#Comment_119075245

Ah yeah, Don't report assault lest a man gets in trouble for it.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075267#Comment_119075267

Another person who seems to struggle to read, because I made that distinction. I never said they were the same, I simply stated that it's a concept in civil law, which it is.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075294#Comment_119075294

What has this to do with you quoting some of my “specific” posts where I never mentioned consent, ffs?

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058246126/rte-journalist-found-guilty-of-sexually-assaulting-woman-as-she-slept

I'm probably going to be accused of being all sorts…

I’m not going to accuse you of all sorts, it’s fairly obvious you’re completely clueless. For what it’s worth, this is what constitutes sexual assault in Irish law -

2.—(1) The offence of indecent assault upon any male person and the offence of indecent assault upon any female person shall be known as sexual assault.

(2) A person guilty of sexual assault shall be liable on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years.

(3) Sexual assault shall be a felony.

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1990/act/32/enacted/en/print#sec2

What he did in this case constitutes sexual assault. It was his choice to force everyone to go through a jury trial in order to prove he was guilty. That won’t work in his favour at sentencing.

It’s not unusual either that victims of sexual assault could make a complaint long after the incident has occurred, nor is it unusual that a case can take 3 years to come before the courts. The fact he is no longer employed by his former employer is not a matter for the courts, that’s between himself and his former employer, or any future employer if he applies for employment.

I can’t say I’d feel one bit sorry to see him locked up tbh. He knew what he was doing.

realdanbreen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075294#Comment_119075294

Correct. She consented to having her tits etc felt. Then when he felt them again sometime later, she hadn't given consent for that particular feel. As a result she felt traumatised and suicidal and couldn't be near strangers.

facehugger99

Guy sounds like a danger and I'm glad he got convicted.

Given the difficulties of pursuing successful action in these types of cases, one assumes the evidence the jury heard was very compelling - enough for them to return the guilty verdict.

Anyone making excuses for a lad trying to have sex with a woman who's unconscious would really want to have a good hard look at themselves.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075371#Comment_119075371

Every guy is a danger so, as many men could easily find themselves in similar situations.

OTT reaction here to what this man may or may not be.

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074703#Comment_119074703

what the jury found is their business. I can form a judgement on the facts as presented. notwithstanding juries aren't infallible

defo he hung himself with his willingness to talk to everybody probably in a naive attempt to "clear things up"

Let that be a lesson for all men in Ireland - say nothing from the moment anything seems out of the ordinary like an angry text message and of course lawyer up.

aside from hypothetical advise - as it's presented I think its the wrong judgment. very wrong.

ahappychappy

If someone is so drunk that they don't have capacity then no they can't consent. That is like consent 101.

And no adults having sex usually have the cop on and good sense to actually want to enjoy and remember the activity.

Seriously it really makes me fear how f**ked up some men think. I really despair at how people think they have rights over an individual's right to autonomy.

facehugger99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075385#Comment_119075385

Speak for yourself.

Most men wouldn't attempt to have sex with an unconscious person.

The only people who need to be worried about this case are dangerous individuals - and I really hope they are worried.

HeidiHeidi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075388#Comment_119075388

"The facts as presented", on which you're basing your "judgement", are reports in the media with who knows what bias/ angle/omissions.

Unless you were in court and heard all the evidence, you have no idea how the jury arrived at their (unanimous) decision.

Jasper79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075426#Comment_119075426

I have both attempted and had ladies attempt on me while sleeping. Neither me nor they saw anything wrong with it . If somebody's not in the mood then fair enough end of .

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075426#Comment_119075426

Yes, because it’s as simple as “man sexually assaults unconscious person.”

and nothing else needs to be factored in or discussed etc.

utter tosh!

realdanbreen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075443#Comment_119075443

Oh! So she wasn't agreeable to being felt up etc with the guy and then when he tried the same again sometime after she became suicidal and traumatised!

Teacher2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075385#Comment_119075385

Are they? Most men won't grope someone who is asleep. If they do they the need to take a long hard look at themselves!

Gaslighting at it's finest - blame the woman for overreacting! He is a convicted sexual predator - he sexually assaulted a sleeping woman.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075267#Comment_119075267

Well, just possibly.. she shouldn't have got into bed with him. And having said no the first time, she shouldn't have stayed in same bed. That is not to 'victim blame' but sure as hell, she has some responsibility in the matter. As it is, she said no the second time and he respected her decision. As mentioned above, if a boyfriend of one of our daughters was respectful like that, I'd be thinking - he's OK. You may hold people to different standards of perfection but the world is rarely perfect in real life.

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075458#Comment_119075458

No, They factored in that she said no and then fell asleep.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075496#Comment_119075496

“He is a convicted sexual predator”

Predator? Good, we are really cranking up the hysteria now.

Teacher2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075500#Comment_119075500

If a boyfriend of your daughters was on top of her and groping her when she woke up you'd think he was respectful?!?! I'm really hoping you don't have daughters if that is what you are raising them to accept from men!

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075519#Comment_119075519

Yes, and he stopped and here we are

He is not some creep, mosnter, deviant based off this....that is my point....He is a man who was in a situation and did something that a year later came to court. He never meant to hurt or terrify or dominate.

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075500#Comment_119075500

If your level is "he didn't rape her after the second time she said no" Maybe give someone else a shot at raising your kids.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075371#Comment_119075371

A danger to who exactly?

Unconscious, lol, go away.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075371#Comment_119075371

If they do they the need to take a long hard look at themselves!

Anyone making excuses for a lad trying to have sex with a woman who's unconscious would really want to have a good hard look at themselves.

There's a good reason the NPC meme took off, because certain people are genuinely like parrots, who repeat each-others words almost exactly. Both posters too, have to ignore the context of the events, and focus on a few words/terms that will evoke outrage:

"MAN RAPES WOMAN IN HER SLEEP"

You're all but tabloid headlines, looking to shock and nothing more.

It's an incredibly predictable list of posters that think this is okay...

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075496#Comment_119075496

Men grope sleeping women, women grope sleeping men to wake them up. It happens and probably more frequently than any of us can imagine. Sometimes they are rebuffed and that should be the end of it. In a one off transaction like this you need to know where the lines are and you cannot assume that how people might behave in longer-term relationships applies.

SAMTALK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074084#Comment_119074084

But we dont know what would have happened do we ?

Maybe he thought she would wake up (like many of us have done) and engaged in activity with him, but maybe he would have stopped when he realised she was not going to wake up.

We dont' know and we cannot surmise that he would have continued

Real Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075534#Comment_119075534

He's up there with the likes of Larry Murphy and Ted Bundy now

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075586#Comment_119075586

How is one meant to know where the line is when different people have different lines? That's the whole issue here.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075537#Comment_119075537

What difference does that make? Suppose he was lying beside her and placed his hand on her breast, would that be different like to being on 'top and groping'? If you are a teacher, you should surely be able to appreciate that the gamut of human life has many shades.

The whole point of this case, is that he accepted her decision and ceased. Anyone who thinks this man is a sexual menace to women and should be prosecuted needs to look long and hard at life.

I hope you don't have sons!!

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075567#Comment_119075567

I was able to guess one or 2 before i clicked in all right.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075555#Comment_119075555

Maybe you should not be advising others how to live their lives?? What arrogance you have.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075598#Comment_119075598

It's better to err on the side of caution IMO in this type of situation but there was drink involved here which probably loosened his inhibitions. If it's a regular encounter then you start to work out the lines together.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074503#Comment_119074503

Why are you asking me about the boundaries that exist between you and your wife?

The understanding of a married couple is completely different to that of two complete strangers. What your wife might be ok with (through years of understanding and trust), others might not be, especially if they wake up to see you on top of them grabbing their breasts.

Honestly, your attempts to muddy the waters are just plain weird.

realdanbreen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075537#Comment_119075537

If a daughter allowed herself to be groped at say 2am but then went into traumatised/ suicidal/see you in court mode when groped again shortly after

Then I hope you don't have any sons.

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075626#Comment_119075626

I do feel quite smug about the fact that i've never sexually assaulted an unconscious woman who told me no.

SAMTALK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075537#Comment_119075537

Have you never been woken up by someone touching you ?

You use the word groping which makes it sound sinister when we dont actually know it was. Again I'll say we dont know what would have happened if she hadnt woken.

He might have been trying to arouse her and if she didnt wake up he might have stopped and gone back to sleep

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075598#Comment_119075598

Yep, There's no way of communicating with someone about their likes and dislikes, no way of finding out those details at all.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075637#Comment_119075637

It's not a situation I'd get myself into, and I agree that caution is better, but some people may simply be very naive about the goings on nowadays with consent and what not.

for once in your life

I agree with you. The snow flake generation, what’s next . Poor guy has no career after this. Plenty have done far worse and got away with it.

i notice the journal have the comments turned off on their article because it would be huge public controversy over this one

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075666#Comment_119075666

Groping and unconscious suits the narrative much better for those wanting to paint this man as a danger.

realdanbreen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075555#Comment_119075555

What an obnoxious asshole comment!

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075666#Comment_119075666

It was stated in the article.

The woman then fell asleep and woke later to find Ó Leidhin on top her of her and groping her breasts. She said she told him to stop and get off her. He did stop and told her “sorry I'm horny”.

Also groping would be a perfectly apt word to describe what happened.

fondle (someone) for sexual pleasure roughly or clumsily, or without the person's consent

The case can't be tried on what you think might have happened, it can only deal with the facts presented to the jury.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119075671#Comment_119075671

Traditionally, words were not needed, people simply knew if the other person was interested or not, and didn't need to ask or get a consent form signed. I've never once had to ask for verbal permission, as I was given physical permission, that didn't need any words. According to modern orthodoxy, I and most of the men who walk on this soil, would be considered rapists. Your father, your uncles, your brothers; all rapists according to some people on here. Do yo not see the danger in that?

Obviously this case is different in that she was asleep, but the point still stands, because many here think that no verbal consent equals rape.