Welfare recipients can earn €14k by renting a room

zell12

Government to extend the rent-a-room scheme to means-tested welfare recipients without penalty

https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0519/1299858-social-welfare/

hayse

I see no reason why they couldn’t room share and potentially earn 56k. Win win for the government.

Del2005

How will this work when a licencee in a rental can apply to be a tenant once there is a part 4 tenancy and the landlord can't reasonably refuse? I can see a lot more people becoming social welfare tenants from this, why pay €1k per month for a room when you can pay a set percentage of your income instead.

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119083682#Comment_119083682

How long does a licencee need to be situ before being able to apply for full tenancy

Confused11811

Part 4 doesn't apply to social housing, those in council houses will still have to inform the council of new people living in the property. Rent review will be done based on household income. Council and social welfare are separate , council rules will still apply. The same will apply for AHB.

Some social welfare recipients own thier own property, normal licencee arrangements will happen there.

There may be an issue with HAP and rent allowance social welfare tentants. So good point on that front , another headache for private landlords

zell12

I disagree with this move, as it allows welfare recipients/pensioners/etc to receive more passive unearned tax-free income purely because they have a spare room.

maestroamado

So basically you can take in a lodger get paid and have free housekeeper...

Government better than any dating site....

Pussyhands

The tens of thousands who've had welfare cuts because of a tiny rise in incomes or their wife earns a bit more etc will be disgusted and rightly so. I hate this country sometimes. FG need to **** off. And that Humphries makes me sick at the sight of her.

Confused11811

Regarding pensioners those on the contributionary pension who owe thier own home or have a council/AHB house can do this already without penalty from the social welfare. It has an affect for those on the non contributionary pension in that they won't be means assessed.

I don't begrudge them at all. I know a few pensioners in large council houses who have actively been in contact with the council to downsize them to small houses but the council have no suitable stock. There's a huge amount of 3 and 4 bed council houses with one or two over 65's living there. IMHO we should be more concerned about that issue.

The only welfare recipients this actually really affects are those on "allowance" payments such as disability allowance but those numbers are small, the big one is Jobseekers allowance. All welfare recipients on "Benefit" payments are not means assessed.

The big issue here is for the private landlords of those "allowance" welfare recipients on HAP, RAS or rent allowance. While those tenants could previously sublet a room (if not forbidden by the rental agreement) they probably wouldn't do so because loosing money from thier welfare payment.

However rent allowance is basically a thing of the past replaced by HAP and RAS. These schemes are administered by the local council and not the DEASP (welfare) There may be a financial impact reducing the RAS or HAP payment because of the increase of household income. The same council rules on income should apply here regardless of the social welfare change of policy. So TBH the incentive may not be all that good as you may think.

TBH the announcement sounds like the government half arsed attempt of trying to tackle 2 issues , housing and inflation rises for social welfare low income earners. It gives the latter an option of getting more money. The reality is most already had that option and didn't choose to take it, they probably won't now so it's affect on housing is probably going to be next to zero. But the government can say , look at what we did to help.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119083698#Comment_119083698

?????

Licencee has no right to a tenancy agreement under any conditions as long as they are a legitimate licencee.

jimwallace197

Great little country, give up the job, go on the dole & housing waiting list. Rent out a few rooms in said house, get tax free up to 14k where normal landlords have to pay up to 50% on rental income. Sure why would one bother working at all.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119083926#Comment_119083926

They have the right to be added as a tenant after six months, when the property itself is being rented and they are renting from that tenant.

Hence why most landlords outright refuse to let tenants have lodgers.

Confused11811

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119083926#Comment_119083926

It can when the room is sublet by an individual who rents the entire house from a landlord.

The sublet licencee can seek part4 from the original landlord.

However most landlords forbid subletting and this also doesn't apply to social housing.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119083941#Comment_119083941

Ok. I misunderstood.

In that case the "new" tenant is merely attaining the same status as the other tenants which is only fair. It isn't the case that you, as owner, could have a legitimate licence agreement, say with someone in your own house, and then be stuck with the person.

To do otherwise would mean that a landlord could simply have a "paper tenant" and have all actual tenants stuck forever on fake licence agreements.

Thinkingaboutit

I cannot see the harm in this, giving lower income people greater financial autonomy, and it will do a little bit to alleviate a crisis created by recent governments. This includes not building social housing to any useful degree, their banning of bedsits, tax privileges for foreign property investors whose developments end up grabbing available land for construction, a shoddy, incompetently operated (ie RTB whose website is shoddy even by the usual low standards of the Irish state) private rental régime, with legislation effectively blocking eviction of the most anti-social tenants possible (people other tenants and neighbours fear), and means a cut in income each year of c. over 5% with associated tax penalties. This results in more and more small time landlords (ofttimes Irish emigrants who have to work abroad or pensioners who invested the fruits of their hard work) just selling up. Finally this government has refugee commitments far beyond their very limited skill set or what this country can or should do.

I return to the first point on social housing. When this country was far poorer (see below), great numbers of high quality houses were built for tenement dwellers with huge families and new families needing homes. 5202 were built last year, which compares badly to c. 8400 on average between 1948 and 1962, exceeding private builds. People were net emigrating, the population was notably smaller. Nowadays the criteria for allocating local authority social housing is far from objective (foreign nationals with families and 'leave to remain' pushing aside Irish people is how it is working out and overwhelmingly the homeless are Irish). It means Irish citizens with families are not helped first of all. While it might sounds fascist to some, but poorer Irish people should be housed first. Someone who thinks otherwise is not reasonable.

Meh, just annoying. All the political class wants to do is spoof about woke nonsense. This measure is objectively good. Whatever helps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIb-yjCe--s

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119083941#Comment_119083941

The legislation says when a Part 4 lease is active, a licencee can't get a part 4 lease so it's when the tenant is in for 6 months. The licencee can be added to the lease as soon as they move in to a property with a Part 4 lease

TomOnBoard

Is this 14k Rent a Room scheme extension to means tested SW recipients still a Heather Humphries attention getter or has it been signed into existence?

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119310859#Comment_119310859

It's essentially virtue signalling nonsense, few if any SW recepients in a position to rent out a room, basically intended to get more accommodation availability because of serious lack of it and allows SW recepients earn up to €14k in rent, under very strict conditions, without this income impacting their SW payment. It has been implemented but like everything Heather says and does, it's not straightforward. SW recipients in receipt of certain payments are still subject to means testing and reviews and of course whilst the concept is intended not to effect SW recepients payments, inevitably there'll be problems, confusion and people inadvertently penalised despite what the minister says.

The question most people will ask, is it worth the Hassle.

TomOnBoard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119311865#Comment_119311865

You say it has been implemented? You wouldn't have an approx date that was done? Thanks

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119311883#Comment_119311883

Morning, there was cabinet approval around 19th of May and she was to sign off on it shortly after. I don't have a specific date for that, some info attached but I'm not aware of any delays etc.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/4bf45-minister-humphreys-announces-measures-to-remove-barriers-facing-social-welfare-customers-seeking-to-take-in-tenants/

TomOnBoard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119311895#Comment_119311895

Thanks.

Yeah, I'm aware of all that stuff. An announcement was made of Cabinet approval and the Minister was due to sign regs. It seems that has not yet been done.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119312000#Comment_119312000

You maybe correct, as it didn't really need legislation (open to correction) and is a temporary measure, I'd have assumed it was implemented immediately, so I may be incorrect, but as I mentioned, nothing Heather Humphries says or Does is ever straightforward 😉

There's a lot of stuff bering rushed through over the past two weeks (typical) before Dail goes into recess, if it did need a vote but I don't believe it did.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119311865#Comment_119311865

...again, just the build the fcuking properties, and stop fcuking around!

Quay_Koncept

Last post was error it reffered to fuel allowance, in any event it does seem that Fuel allowance may be stopped if your lodger is not on any SWP. The scheme is live now!

zell12

Rent a Room is exempt from Fuel Allowance means

Quay_Koncept

Thanks Zell The following is on citizens information which seems to suggest the lodger must also be on SWP or be entitltled to fuel allowance in their own right if the owner wants to avail of fuel allowance. Cant post link so heres attachment.

fuel.PNG

zell12

Well, it comes up again

ministers also agreed that "if someone rents out a room in their house, it won't affect their social welfare entitlements or medical card entitlements". He said it was open to Local Authority tenancies as well. https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/0321/1365546-politics-government-measures-renters-housing-evictions/

Quay_Koncept

I was just checking the small print on this scheme and it appears that the person to whom the room is rented to must be on a social welfare payment. So for instance you are not allowed take in a college student or someone in full time employment. That was never mentioned in any of the press releases at all.

"The person renting the room from you must also be getting a qualifying social welfare payment or must qualify for a Fuel Allowance in their own right. See the rules about living alone above."

Quay_Koncept

If a person is on Jobseekers Allowance & works part-time say 16 hours total over 2 days a week does this scheme still apply? Doesn't mention anywhere online

Allinall

That is only if the person receiving the rent is getting fuel allowance, and wants to keep it.

You an rent the room to anyone without it affecting your core welfare payments.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531676#Comment_120531676

No. You can rent the room to anyone you like and keep your core SW payment as long as the rent you charge is less then €270 a week.

But if you (the householder) are in receipt of Fuel Allowance and your licensee (the person renting the room) is not on a SW payment with fuel allowance attached or qualified then you (the householder) may lose your fuel allowance.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531697#Comment_120531697

You can keep whatever SW payment you are getting if you rent a room out in your house and the rent you charge is less than €270 a week.

Quay_Koncept

Thanks "all in all" and "tootired", last question I promise, I am thinking of doing this for the summer months to help pay off some bills I owe, am I best to include utility bills or separate or does it even make a difference

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532369#Comment_120532369

If it’s for the summer months I would include bills in whatever you charge. Just try to get a rough estimate of how much your bills will increase, so you know what will be your net income.

It should really be just the electric that increases.

.Donegal.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119083940#Comment_119083940

Nothings stopping you

zell12

If a council tenant rents out a room, welfare and taxes up to €14k are disregarded. But who does the roomee pay the rent to? The Occupier or the Council?

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120875853#Comment_120875853

The tenant. The tenant is obliged to inform the LA that the makeup of the household has changed.

The LA will send a “Review” form in the post. This will ask the tenant who is now living there and ask the tenant to provide evidence of the new household members weekly income.

The weekly household contribution to the rent will then be adjusted to reflect the change in the weekly income coming into the house.

It’s then up to the tenant to sort this out with the “sub tenant”.

If there’s any issue about this between the tenant and the sub tenant then the LA won’t get involved but will still expect the new revised rent to be honoured.

How the utility bills including the rent, bins, household wear and tear etc is not the business of the LA either.

Quay_Koncept

Im curious the lad renting my room is wondering if his friend can move in and they will split the rent which is fine for me, so I will increase the rent accordingly to cover wear and tear (keeping it under the 14K of course). I looked at all the info on this scheme and it does not say the amount of people allowed in the room?

Can you have more then 1 person in the one room your renting out?

What about if you rent 2 rooms in your house but keep the rent under 14k?