Weaning yourself off gas - getting it disconnected. Anyone done it?

Mr Q

I live in an all electric house and find it great. Not sure why people are complaining about the touch controls on induction hobs, most normal electric hobs are the same anyway.

I had no gas option where I built so it was oil or HP really. And the local "minority" can't keep robbing my tank of oil if I don't have one.

If anyone is looking for a portable induction hob I have one I don't use

Fantana2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119113715#Comment_119113715

How do you work out you need only two? What you not need one per room or would you replace some rads with electric rads?

Feisar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119116411#Comment_119116411

My mums one is like that. Touch here for this tap that to select ring, then start tapping to change temp. I've a Smeg Victoria with old school knobs, instant reponce.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119132362#Comment_119132362

By coincidence, really. I had two large mining rigs heat my home this winter, zero gas used. One in the living room and one in the large kitchen / extension / conservatory. We've never used radiators in the bedrooms and I thought the bathrooms were going to be a problem and would need heating, but they didn't. It was a very mild winter though...

SD_DRACULA

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119132362#Comment_119132362

Well each unit provides cooling/heating for 3 rooms so 2 units = 6 rooms.

3 bedrooms upstairs, kitchen/dinning/living downstairs. Not sure how easy (if even possible) to run the cables/pipes downstairs, upstairs they can be routed via the attic.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119138477#Comment_119138477

Not the mini-splits I am thinking of @SD_DRACULA. One unit is for one room, there are no cables / ducts / pipes anywhere. Just a ventilation unit on the inside of a wall and the heatpump / compressor on the outside of that wall or close to it. Mini split systems costs only about €500 each, so a couple of them including install (not taking into account any possible subsidy) is cheaper than replacing a gas boiler

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119138865#Comment_119138865

Well there will be some pipe work, flow and return and some power/control circuitry between the outside and inside unit.

simpsimp

Induction hobs have been around for a long time, and they've improved a lot over time.

I'm totally converted, and would not go back to gas at this stage - I find a combination of induction and cast iron cookware the sweet spot for me.

The only gas we have in the house now is a canister of Bio-LPG for the barbecue.

It's electric all the way - with a heat pump and solar PV.

No complaints.

SD_DRACULA

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119138865#Comment_119138865

Yeah I'm just not so sure how you can heat/cool separate rooms like that? Open all the doors around the house? Don't these things work best when they are confined to one room only?

With the split ones you would have total control room by room and only heat and cool what you need. Hook them up to HA and your temp/humidity sensors in every room and you'll get some proper zoning automation right there.

mp3guy

Recommend switching your open gas fire for a closed solid fuel (wood) burning stove. Reduce heat loss in the room and replace gas with a renewable resource.

unkel

I wouldn't call wood renewable really, only on paper under certain circumstances. In practice the figures are very poor and of course there are pretty brutal emissions from burning wood. Good point about the heat loss through the chimney though.

josip

They charge €800 to disconnect you from the gas network? 😶

dathi

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/PUXIN-CE-certified-3-4m3-portable_60485945652.html?spm=a2700.pcfacebook.normalList.14.c8f0aaLTaaLTEk

you could always make your own

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119140414#Comment_119140414

if you were going to burn wood, a stove is a no-brainer. as mentioned, installing one reduces heat loss massively to the room if you're plugging an open chimney; but if you don't have a ready supply of wood, a chimney balloon would be a tiny fraction of the cost.

also just bear in mind that the open flue might form a significant part of the ventilation in the house, depending on age, so blocking the chimney might result in poorer airflow in the house.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119142615#Comment_119142615

Seriously? Any link for that? That would be outrageous, you should get a cash bonus for getting disconnected from the gas network. Not being punished for it.

So that's the end of this thread then. I'm willing to invest thousands of my own money without any subsidies and I am willing to change my behaviour to stop or reduce using fossil fuel and to move to renewables. I've been on this path for nearly a decade now. But I am not willing to pay €800 just for getting the gas disconnected.

I just checked bonkers.ie and Flogas do a 2 year contract with a standing charge of €104 per year and a cash back of €220. In other words, should I use zero gas during this period, I have a zero bill. That's me signing up for this contract next month upon my renewal so I will be on the gas for another 2 years. Stupid system.

magicbastarder

the disconnection fees mentioned here are a fraction of the €800 mentioned; they wouldn't permanently disconnect you anyway, i suspect, in case you change your mind or the property changes hands.

https://www.electricireland.ie/residential/help/meters/there-is-a-reconnection-disconnection-fee-on-my-bill---what-does-this-mean

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119143224#Comment_119143224

Yeah with that sort of cash back, Id not be pulling it out yet. No cost backup anyway!

UID0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119143224#Comment_119143224

Gas Networks Ireland Alterations and Relocations 12-GNI-Alterations-Relocations.pdf (gasnetworks.ie)

Option 7 (cut off service) (€826.73 inc. VAT) is the fee to disconnect from the gas network.

simpsimp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119144220#Comment_119144220

I just checked my records - I paid €147.68 back in December 2018 for Gas Networks Ireland to remove the meter and turn off the gas to our mid-terraced house...

So that is quite the inflation...

josip

Incredible to think that with a national policy of moving away from fossil fuel heating that the regulator allows GNI such an increase.

magicbastarder

the question is what do they mean by 'cut off service'? do they mean physically removing the pipe, or just ceasing to be a customer? i suspect the former. the

unkel

It's ridiculous. It has just postponed my disconnecting of my gas by at least 2 years. And I can't see any reason for anyone else to get disconnected now either.

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119144979#Comment_119144979

I'm with Magicbastarder (great name btw) above. I think it would be prudent to confirm that it's actually just the ceasing to be a customer and not the full removal of said meter, piping etc.

€800+ seems.....excessive (even for Ireland)

loyatemu

what happens if you just cancel your service with one provider and don't take a new service? That fee sounds more appropriate to getting the meter and pipe removed - IIRC it's only a few hundred to get a new connection into the network (up to a certain distance from the main).

unkel

As long as it is cheaper to keep my gas connected than to get it disconnected (even if I use it a little bit for cooking), there is very little motivation to go ahead and get it done, invest even more in non-gas electric hardware like hobs and fireplaces.

Ubbquittious

If you stop paying them you won't be long getting disconnected I'd say

Having said that I knew a guy who somehow had 19,000 (!) Arrears with bord gais

unkel

I'm not the type of person to be bold / brave enough to stop paying a bill and hope for the best 😂 I even pay my TV license, property tax and I always paid the water charges when they were still there!

Busman Paddy Lasty

Just paid €767.36 to have meter moved from inside to outside :(

On the whole of it we couldn't afford to go with a heat pump and we don't have space inside for the hot water tank thing. Couldn't be justified compared to replacing old boiler and cylinder with a combi boiler.

Loads of insulation going in so we won't need heat in the first place only how water for shower and kitchen tap.

johnnyskeleton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119115110#Comment_119115110

A 400% efficient system for converting energy would be amazing, if only it didnt breach the first rule of thermodynamics. You could use one heat pump to power four more, which could each power four more, and so on and so on. Pretty soon we would have infinite energy all coming from one guys back garden

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119147975#Comment_119147975

Ah but heat pumps do have 4x efficiency.

It doesn't generate heat, it MOVES heat from one area from another.

And even when it's cold out, there's still plenty of heat.

johnnyskeleton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148016#Comment_119148016

Of course but its an inaccurate waynof describing them. The heat pump takes energy from the air or ground and a smaller amount of grid electricity. The boiler uses fossil fuels. There is no cost for the ambient energy, but it isnt the case that the heat pump machine can utilise 400% of the energy put into it. Its more an indicative figure of how much less fuel is used compared to other methods

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119147975#Comment_119147975

Interesting concept. Because he's breaking the first law his neighbours remain blissfully unaware of his exploits. However if he only broke the second law his back garden would keep getting colder depending on how many people with heatpumps he signed up. I'd imagine he could sign up most of his friends and nobody would notice but once it starts catching on and the cold snap arrives his neighbours would see the snow isn't melting in his garden long after everyone else.

After signing up a good number of customers his garden would be an icy winter paradise even in the spring. His neighbours would be calling Joe Duffy not understanding what's going on and complaining about the -40 degree air wafting over from his place. By the time the summer arrives he'd have to turn his heatpump off to give it a chance to thaw out. After which his garden will be devoid of life and look truly dreadful. I wonder how many houses he could heat from one back garden if the second law wasn't a problem

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148184#Comment_119148184

And this is why I love Boards.

ds20prefecture

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119116260#Comment_119116260

I had a look at this. Significantly less expensive than air-water or retrofitting air-air in my old house.

Lots of upsides

• Instant heat - little or no warm up period
• 99% efficient
• Solid state so much lower maintenance than plumbed central heating.
• Distributed - no single high cost item like HP or boiler
• frees wall space as you can mount panels on the ceiling
• Cool air, warm body
• Reduces mould by heating the solid objects
• Integrates well with smart home - only on when needed

Drawbacks

• Wiring
• No grants
• needs a big battery & inverter to maximise solar use

Can't cost justify at the moment as the boiler is only 2 years old and the house is very efficient so not using a lot of gas in winter and none at all in summer.

I plan to "pilot" the use by putting one in the home office this coming winter instead of the rad. I can gradually convert each room too, keeping the spend under the radar from SWMBO

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148911#Comment_119148911

I would be careful with those. I knew a fella who made sh1t of his eyes by reading under an IR lamp regularly. Not quite the same thing I suppose though

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148911#Comment_119148911

Thanks for that, I have been looking into it a fair bit and the quotes are roughly about €490 for a 1050w and €440 for a 900w with controls about €250 for both units. Not including fitting which adds approx €400 extra. That is off one of the leading suppliers from what I can find, Sunradi Ltd trading as Infrared Heating Ireland. Both can be ceiling fitted but wiring depends on existing layout so conduit could be the only option. The cost builds up when looking at 5-7 rooms. I need to keep looking for options like some mentioned earlier in the thread to weigh it all up.

unkel

@ds20prefecture - good to see you're still around! You still got the DS20?

Be careful to compare an IR install to a full blown heatpump system install though (as the main supplier of IR systems likes to do). There are steps in between that costs less or the same as IR but do have a lot of advantages of heatpumps as in well over 100% efficiency, and cooling possibility in summer (for free if you have solar PV) and that is mini split systems.

ds20prefecture

Hey @unkel I do indeed still have the DS20 although years of you banging on about quality german marques mean i have an Audi A2 and a VW ID.3 too :)

Point taken on the split systems but I just got the house clad and there's no way I'm poking holes in the insulation for that kind of system. Remarkable how cool the house is in summer now too.

I'm in envy of your solar setup. I'm in a semi-D with a small garden so only have room for 21 panels giving 6.7 peak (really about 5.7 as i'm e/w) Terrific in summer and almost adequate in winter with my small 2.4kWh battery. I think with IR heating i'd be upping the battery size and charging it off night rate

ds20prefecture

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119149019#Comment_119149019

I got similar prices. infraredheat.ie are making their own panels now so probably a deal to be made

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148926#Comment_119148926

They're an IR panel - no light, just heat. Bizarre to use an IR light for reading.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119150007#Comment_119150007

That was the deal price on their own panels. Like everything I expect the prices will be going up.

celtic_oz

Would love to do this as I have a Calor LPG tank which is a rip off

My solar system (6.2Kwp) produced 150Kwh in January this year, I used 600Kwh even without space / water heating

@unkel How many additional Kwh do you recon your house needs to heat using mini-split during the winter.. assume at least some of these KWh would be during day at the dearest rate.

I have oodles of roof space but the complication of going greater than 6Kw inverter and maybe going 3 phase seems daunting

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119140414#Comment_119140414

Well timber is a damn sight more renewable that solar panels and batteries.

The sun shines, the tree uses it's leave to photosynthesis, the trunk grows & stores carbon. We cut it down, plant more and burn the timber.

No mining of materials, no transport around half the world, no pollution from so called Green technologies.

mp3guy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156786#Comment_119156786

Right! Of course, every house in Ireland burning wood would not work at all. But a few here and there is totally fine from a scalability and particle point of view.

Always good to have a back up heat source that doesn't require electricity or fossil fuels, and the answer to that is wood.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156786#Comment_119156786

Eh no. Has been debunked many times. Looks good on paper, but the actual renewability of burning wood is very poor. And it still has the emissions leading to deaths and climate change. Burning wood is particularly bad for PM2.5.

unkel

@celtic_oz - not sure about the kWh the mini splits would use in total for heating my house, I guess that depends largely on how could the winter is. But if you presume that day rate electricity costs roughly twice the cost of gas per usable kWh and a mini split has roughly a COP of 2, then it costs roughly the same to heat your house with gas as with mini splits. And using the mini splits as much as you can during night rate hours is an extra bonus, for both your wallet and the environment.

Fantana2

Have they increased the disconnect fee knowing that as people move to alternatives they will be disconnecting in greater numbers?

Manion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156973#Comment_119156973

I've an aircon system installed which as far as I can see is the same as what youve posted. I mainly use it for cooling during the summer months but it can do heating as well. Nearly 2.5K for one unit and compressor. 2.7 kw like what you're interested in. Have you been in a home heated by these units? They can leave the atmosphere dry and with a weird charge. The unit I got specifically controls for humidity.

unkel

€2.5k installed I presume? The units are only about €500 to buy.

Manion

Yep.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156961#Comment_119156961

Grand, so you'd rather pollute the world with the necessary mining & manufacturing to run your green tech. Have you seen lithium mining? Have you seen the effects of massive construction projects like the Galway wind park? I suspect from your POV that what's out of sight is is out of mind?

If you really want to be Green, get rid of those crypto mining machines & EVs. Get yourself a couple of timber stoves. And live with less.