Star Trek-Strange New Worlds 1x04 - 'Momento Moiri' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** } « »

AMKC

Episode 4

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Strange New Worlds 1x04 - 'Momento Moiri ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** } Warning: This thread will contain spoilers 

ilovesmybrick

Yet another excellent episode. They're really hitting it out of the park so far, and usually by episode four of new Trek the cracks have become apparent. Few quibbles here and there, but they get buried by the good. The reintroduction of space rocks on the bridge was a welcome return, especially after Discoverys bridge flamethrowers. Good solid story, each character gets a bit of time to develop their motivations (obviously the focus here was on La’an, which is a structural device I hope they continue with), unbelievable visuals, and great performances. I also really like seeing the impact the episode had on the ship, nicely f**ked up!

The one thing that really took me out of the episode was shoehorning in Burnham during the mind meld. It was brief, but really took away from the episode for me. Some aspects, like Pikes future, have to be referenced and that's fine, but keep the reminders of the existence of Discovery to the absolute minimum.

AMKC

Oh good so far. I was thinking this one was not going to be good but so far so good.

I like the Hull shielded from transporters and the space Umbrellical cord. I was expecting Pike to say launch shuttles.

Oh that was cool.

I was thinking of another race but maybe yes just maybe these are going to be the protogenists in the series. How that fits in with TOS I am not so sure. Maybe they will just be a one off.

I think I would have went for an insect race like the Tholians myself.

Would have made sense the way the young one was talking about the monsters.

Really hope we get to see them at some stage in Strange New Worlds.

Oh ye definitely the best episode so far. I think the Hemmler and Uhura bit has not added much to it do but maybe it will. Yes ok so it is important then and does add to the story. I was just thinking the other night would we see on episode like this in some way similar to when the Enterprise D lost all power with Picarx trapped in a Turbolift with 3 children and other crew stuck in various areas or like the time the Defiant was crippled on DS9 can't remember who was stuck in the turbo lift there but there was two of them.

Or when DS9 went crazy because they activated Cul Dukats lockdown program lol.

Even Voyager I think had something similar with Tom and Beckenbauer was it stuck in a turbo lift or maybe I am just rendering that one wrong.

Anyway cool episode so far. Will definitely watch it a second time

CastorTroy

Ortegas really needs to tone it down a bit. Does she ever say anything that isn't snark or sarcasm?

Just reading up on the Gorn since they seem to be making them a decent threat, but seems the first time one was seen by starfleet was when Kirk fought one.

But good episode.

Bit confused by the plan with the shuttle. Thought they were going to send a long range communication. And I don't really believe they couldn't be seen when they were right beside them.

I didn't mind the Burnham mention. Just showed the meld worked both ways and let's Spock and La'an relate.

AMKC

I must say the Enterprise must be massive because the inside of the shuttle is huge. I would go so far as to say they are more spacious than a Runabout.

The sets must be something else altogether. Would be awesome getting to be on that set.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119115856#Comment_119115856

The one thing that really took me out of the episode was shoehorning in Burnham during the mind meld. It was brief, but really took away from the episode for me. Some aspects, like Pikes future, have to be referenced and that's fine, but keep the reminders of the existence of Discovery to the absolute minimum.

I agree totally about that.

I was like Burnham who nope never heard of her not important move on.

Great episode do. I wonder will Pikes Enterprise now find a Space Station like Archers did not is all automatic lol are run by humans or alien minds.

I hope we see them stopped over at a station in the next episode as not only do they need repairs but supplies too.

The Gorn big ship was very cool. The small ones I knew about from TOS but they looked even better here.

corkie

'Memento Mori' ~~ "remember you must die"

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Memento_Mori_%28episode%29

Enjoyable episode but has the problem of being a prequel to 'TOS' and a 'Discovery' spinoff.

The sense of peril trying to be invoked around the Ship or Main characters, doesn't really work as we know they have to be fine.

Spent to long on waiting for a reply from Uhura.

Don't mind the discovery references with Spock/Pike.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119116816#Comment_119116816

Just reading up on the Gorn since they seem to be making them a decent threat, but seems the first time one was seen by starfleet was when Kirk fought one.

I think that is the first time a Human ever really get close to one without being eaten lol.

But good episode.

Bit confused by the plan with the shuttle. Thought they were going to send a long range communication. And I don't really believe they couldn't be seen when they were right beside them.

Was the shuttle bit was wasted. Did not really make sense.

It's in space so just like two planes in the sky right beside they could have been 2000miles apart for all we know.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119116978#Comment_119116978

Enjoyable episode but has the problem of being a sequel to 'TOS' and a 'Discovery' spinoff.

The sense of peril trying to be invoked around the Ship or Main characters, doesn't really work as we know they have to be fine.

Spent to long on waiting for a reply from Uhura.

You mean a prequel to TOS.

I agree about the sense of peril. Would have worked better it that had of been Hemmler and Ortega or Number One or even La'an.

liamtech

EPIC AGAIN - Fantastic episode - Season High of a Season that is 4/4 on Good Episodes

I actually think that MAY be the current BEST EPISODE of modern Trek - including only Disco, Picard, and SNW - That episode was better than any IMHO - great standard being upheld here

• La'an is a fantastic character - real, proper Starfleet - no nonsense - imperfect for sure - but the kind of officer that Kirk, or Sisko, or Picard would have relished having in combat - So far, she is the breakout character for me - superb
• The writing and the dialogue - fantastic - no serious complaints at all here - impressed as hell
• Spock and La'an in the shuttle - great scene, and the mind meld was great, except for ONE THING :(
• PLEASE DONT BRING BURNHAM INTO STRANGE NEW WORLDS _ PLEASE - **** OFF AND LEAVE DISCO where it is - seriously - leave it it will ye? (i actually screamed AH HERE, when they pulled that stunt)
• The Pike Maneuver - love it! Solid!
• The Gorn will be back - bring it - From what La'an has told us, definitely wanna see these lads get a good smack or two
• I like Ortegas myself, i have seen some complaints - yes - but i just like her!
• If i had to pick one character that i dislike - Chapel - and merely because she IS CHAPEL - she doesnt seem like her TOS character - if they had just left well enough alone and had her as an original character - id be happier

ilovesmybrick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119116839#Comment_119116839

Yeah, I had that sense for the shuttle too, but then again the shuttles in pretty much all trek (bar the runabouts, which are technically ships in their own right) always seemed a bit stupid in terms of space. The TOS ones were essentially caravens, with no obviouse place for anything that actually made them run. I can't remember seeing one properly in SNW from the outside, but my guess is that they follow a runabout design with the important parts mounted on the spine. Which to be far should have been done with the rest of them.

But as nitpicks go I'll leave it off. Sure the Delta Flier makes almost no sense in terms of size since we saw it being contructed to the size of roughly a ford van!

Either way, this is all minor. The scripts and the cast are carrying the show, which is how it should be. I know there are some complaints about a bit of informality on the bridge, which is fair enough. But the flip side is you have officers accepting they are in a difficult job, they all have issues, and they need to process and move on their own way. We see it with Number One and La'an at the outset of the episode with regards the memorial badge, the transporter chief and the lad he left behind. Not saying that these aren't traumatic, but an entire three episodes would be made out of it in Discovery. Reminds me quite a bit of the end of TNG Lower Decks.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119117974#Comment_119117974

I can't remember seeing one properly in SNW from the outside, but my guess is that they follow a runabout design with the important parts mounted on the spine. Which to be far should have been done with the rest of them.

We did. We seen Admiral April in one in the very first episode but maybe the ones on the Enterprise are different to that one. I do not know.

We kinda seen Spock in one in episode three but it was not great but I think it looked the same as the one Admiral April was in.

Spear

It's a solid, well paced, constantly moving episode, but I have some mixed feelings about it. There doesn't seem to be any overall theme or focus story wise, other than simply not dying. And some of the larger plot points seem recycled, e.g. hide in gas to level playing field from Wrath of Khan, and two people, one of which is blind, one of which is a non-engineer, stuck in the cargo bay while something burns from TNG episode Disaster.

But even if the bigger picture didn't quite work for me, there's lots of smaller details that did. The sacrifice to save Kyle, the blood transfusion from M'Benga, actually depicting the coffins of the dead for once. These things were simply shown and not laboured over and dragged out in a overwrought manner.

Still, if you want to nitpick, where's M'Bengas daughter in all this? They say transporters are off line, does that not include the sickbay one? Was she not killed if it lost power suddenly? If it's still working, why didn't he use to save people?

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119118487#Comment_119118487

Still, if you want to nitpick, where's M'Bengas daughter in all this? They say transporters are off line, does that not include the sickbay one? Was she not killed if it lost power suddenly? If it's still working, why didn't he use to save people?

Good point.

Maybe it was just running on reserve or emergency power just enough that she is still safe but not enough to transport anyone.

eadrom

Best of the season so far, I thought that was great!

Wonderful submarine nebula stuff that was right out of the Wrath of Khan "best bits" collection, yet somehow didn't feel like a cheap callback. Really enjoyable stuff.

Not perfect. Still some pacing issues I think. Or maybe it's the music or sound design. Or maybe it's just me? But there seems to be a few moments in each episode where the tension or emotion just doesn't seem to be quite where it should be. Although thank god for the sane camera work, compared to Disco. I don't get sea-sick from the conference scenes anymore.

Really good stuff anyway.

eadrom

@Spear @AMKC -- if I remember correctly, Number One hooked M'Benga up with a reliable power source for his transporter-daughter at the end of the last episode.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119118925#Comment_119118925

Yes that is right.

Spear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119118925#Comment_119118925

Good point, it would account for keeping the daughter alive at least.

Slydice

I thought that was a good episode. Good nods to the past. Some real heroics on display especially when that crew member saved Kyle as the bulkheads sealed on deck 22!

I swear the second the satellite being destroyed was mentioned though, I was all like.. Klingons! Klingons! Klingons! Klingons! Klingons! Klingons! straight for 2 or 3 minutes! Gorn makes sense too.

Nod from me for the representation of the black hole. I thought it was done well. The external enterprise shots were done really well from start to finish too!

I'm feeling some real potential for the Metrons to show up in Discovery now.

GSPfan

I love this show!

That episode felt like a movie plot. It actually felt like a season finale type episode in fact.

Some thoughts…

• In 4 episodes I know lots of names, personalities, back stories, and their competency levels. Who’d have thunk it.

• The ship looks amazing from the outside. Looks great on the inside too but they nailed the exterior.

• La’an is giving me Ro Laren vibes. In a good way. She’s borderline vengeful and I can’t be sure she won’t kill a Cardassian/Gorn the second she lays eyes on one.

• I’d love to see an updated Gorn. Wonder if they will be the main enemy for the first two seasons at least.

• Uhura is getting a lot of screen time. I know she’s TOS main cast material but still she’s a cadet who seems to be integral to a lot going on.

• I couldn’t help thinking about Discoverys flame throwers when the Enterprise bridges was wrecked. Whoever thought that was a good idea needs their head checked.

breezy1985

Even before entering the gas giant it had real TWOK vibes. It was for the most part very good and I love that they dont show the Gorn as it makes them more scary. I assume they are now being set up as this shows Pakleds too.

There is a real interesting dilemma built into the show for Pike. He is almost like us in the sense he knows the ship will survive as it has to if he is on board but has no clue who he might get killed.

Of all the call backs, nods and references I never thought I would watch Trek and thing "wow thats pure Space Above and Beyond". Those smaller Gorn ships had a real Chig vibe.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119119431#Comment_119119431

La’an is giving me Ro Laren vibes. In a good way. She’s borderline vengeful and I can’t be sure she won’t kill a Cardassian/Gorn the second she lays eyes on one.

The way she looked as the Gorn blew up their own all I could think of was poor ensign Lynch and humanities supposed evolved sensibility.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119118925#Comment_119118925

But it's either working or it isn't... if it's working with its reliable power source, why weren't they using it to help people? And if it's not working then it asks the question of the daughter being ok. It feels a weird one for it to fall between the two stools, where the pattern buffern is a-ok, but they couldn't beam anyone else, without mentioning it. Just feels like that story beat causes more trouble than it's worth, and could do with a simply stated resolution so it doesn't come up every time 'transporters are offline', which is always gonna be a reasonably common occurrence for plot.

Anyway, another very solid episode. Loving La'an, excellent character being developed really well. Uhura feels just a hair too naively wide-eyed with her "Uhura for the win!" type stuff... but hopefully they have her grow up a bit soon after some sort of trial or another. Spock is an excellent foil for all the bridge goings-on, gets to be expository but unintentionally funny at the same time - something all the good bridge's have with original Spock, Data, Tuvok etc, and another thing Discovery lacked.

TheIrishGrover

That was fun. They get their usual "Enemy Below"/Submarine episode (EVERY genre show has one of these). And it was done well.

Yeah, I agree. Dial Ortegas back juuuust a smidge. Just about 10%. But it's not a deal-breaker.

I did like the Uhura/engineering scenes (Although, yeah, they did drag out the "Did they survive" scene just a tad too long. It's Uhura!). I do like how they are expanding her character. Sort of a "Check out the big brain on Uhura!" She is very much human but obviously very intelligent (Pike's "Oh the prodigy" comment now seeming more about her in general than just her language skills)

I didn't mind the mention of Burnham. She felt Spock's understanding of loss.

Didn't quite catch how Soong was able to get the Gorn mothership to fire on the smaller. I caught her mentioning "They are stronger when cornered" etc. Was she sending that to the mothership impersonating the smaller ship and they destroyed the smaller for being weak?

Again, narratively they managed to use nine characters in three different situations (Pike, Soong, Spock, Ortegas in command story; Number One, Doc and Chapel in medical bay story and Uhura, engineer in engineering story) all with enough time and time to expand on Soong issues). And STILL throw in a couple of minor characters. In comparison to you-know-what, the writing, direction, plotting and focus is night and day

Again, not as great as the stellar (Pun intended) first two but still a very good episode and I'd happily eat up episodes of that quality all day.

So far this show has been exceeding my hopes.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119120266#Comment_119120266

But it's either working or it isn't... if it's working with its reliable power source, why weren't they using it to help people? And if it's not working then it asks the question of the daughter being ok. It feels a weird one for it to fall between the two stools, where the pattern buffern is a-ok, but they couldn't beam anyone else, without mentioning it. Just feels like that story beat causes more trouble than it's worth, and could do with a simply stated resolution so it doesn't come up every time 'transporters are offline', which is always gonna be a reasonably common occurrence for plot.

Maybe the transporter targeting sensors were off as well so while it might have worked they have no way to lock onto anyone with the Transporter. Besides I think it's TNG before they can do transporter inside ship beaming.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119120690#Comment_119120690

Didn't quite catch how Soong was able to get the Gorn mothership to fire on the smaller. I caught her mentioning "They are stronger when cornered" etc. Was she sending that to the mothership impersonating the smaller ship and they destroyed the smaller for being weak?

She somehow told the bigger ship that the other Gorn ship had been borded by Humans and that makes them week so they destroyed it.

What I do not get is if they used lights to the Gorn Mothership to do this could it not then see them and if so why did it not destroy them too?

But maybe it's because like Enterprise it too was flying blind and just assumed it was another Gorn ship talking to it.

breezy1985

When La'an was able to read that Spock had a sibling who was lost it would have been great craic if he said "ya Sybok, I really miss that guy"

GSPfan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119119863#Comment_119119863

Wow I didn’t spot that. The fact Pike knows the ship won’t blow up with him on it. He knew the ship’s integrity would hold because he knows he doesn’t die there. But if he takes that approach into situations then he could get a lot of other people killed along the way. I love that.

I think they have done a great job with Pike knowing his own destiny. It’s faded into the background a lot in 4 episodes but still there for the people paying attention… unlike me. I was distracted by the cool Splosions.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121851#Comment_119121851

think they have done a great job with Pike knowing his own destiny. It’s faded into the background a lot in 4 episodes but still there for the people paying attention… unlike me. I was distracted by the cool Splosions.

What Splosions lol?

I only seen some implosions myself.

GSPfan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122106#Comment_119122106

My knowledge of them space splosions would be limited. They could be ex-splosions or im-splosions. Who’s to say.

But some good splosions in episode 4.

Actually you just reminded me….. I was kind of surprised we didn’t see the splosion of that first ship that they dropped the torpedo on.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122251#Comment_119122251

My knowledge of them space splosions would be limited. They could be ex-splosions or im-splosions. Who’s to say.

But some good splosions in episode 4.

They were actually implosion as they were in the gravity of a black hole so nothing could explode in that only implode from the pressure around it a bit like being under water too deep.

Actually you just reminded me….. I was kind of surprised we didn’t see the splosion of that first ship that they dropped the torpedo on.

Yes I was disapointed in that. We just see the effect it has on the bridge crew and the ship shaking.

TheIrishGrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122358#Comment_119122358

Actually you just reminded me….. I was kind of surprised we didn’t see the splosion of that first ship that they dropped the torpedo on.

Yes I was disapointed in that. We just see the effect it has on the bridge crew and the ship shaking.

Was kind of in keeping with the whole submarine/depth charges vibe though of the episode

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122251#Comment_119122251

I liked that they didn't show the first ship being hit. Added to the submariness of the whole thing.

TheValeyard

Fantastic episode.

They handled the Gorn brilliantly without breaking Canon.

Gorn Hegonomy ships looked very different and cool.

As someone else stated... No mentioning of Burnham... Please. No.

Plot was witty, lines were good and its THE CREW working to save the day, not just one person. Really like how they are fleshing out the characters and Pike is such a cool character. Big fan of La'an also.

Acosta

Enjoyed that. The best one so far. Other than Erica is it? The helmsman, who is getting increasingly irritating. And the lack of any respect of the chain of command in terms of rank, between characters, it was a good one.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122863#Comment_119122863

Ortega and Uhura are both a bit annoying. They both talk like something from a highschool TV show or a comedy like Orville but at least it's just 2 of them rather than the whole crew like Discovery.

Also La'an has an interesting background as an atrocity survivor so I don't understand why they needed to give her an additional traumatic memberberry back story as a Singh.

FutureGuy

Give me season after season of this and Lower Decks and they can cancel everything else.

AMKC

I don't mind Uhura at all but do agree that Ortega can be annoying. She seems to think its all one big fun game.

Maybe she would be better in a Lower Decks style ship.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119120766#Comment_119120766

If it requires you as a viewer to say "maybe the targeting sensors were off?" then it means they've not given us enough information to make the situation make sense. Which is all I'm saying is the problem with that storyline - they just need it to be told more neatly so that every time the transporters doesn't work we don't wonder if the kid is now alive or dead.

As for transporting within the ship - they intended to beam the survivors over from the other ship, so it makes no sense that they couldn't transport within their own ship. If they could do it between 2 separate points moving within space, they can certainly do it within 1 fixed point plain where everything is stationary relative to each other.

Again though, I'm quite happy to be a hair irritated by a small thing like that, when everything else is largely going well with the show. They just need to back up their overtly emotional beats better within the sci-fi context they're working in.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119124733#Comment_119124733

As for transporting within the ship - they intended to beam the survivors over from the other ship, so it makes no sense that they couldn't transport within their own ship. If they could do it between 2 separate points moving within space, they can certainly do it within 1 fixed point plain where everything is stationary relative to each other.

Of course it makes sense. They would have been the other from the Transport pad on there ship to the Enterprise's ones but it obviously did not have any as was explained about the Hull so that could not be done. As for transporting within a ship well that is harder if it is not between two Transport pads. Don't ask me why it just is untill the 24th century when they have better transporters.

corkie

@AMKC @~Rebel~

it was a cargo ship used to transport radioactive ore, so their hull was resistant to transporters.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Memento_Mori_(episode)

That was the reason they couldn't beam people from the cargo ship.

Continuity

Although Spock claimed to have never used the mind meld on Humans prior to the events of "Dagger of the Mind", in this episode he is shown doing just that with La'an Noonien-Singh.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119125269#Comment_119125269

So they can beam down to a planet surface with no transport pads there, but they can’t beam 10 feet within the same vessel?

why then did they have to have a story beat saying “the transporters are down” when starting the lower deck evacuation, if they couldn’t use them anyway? The implication was they wanted to transport people out, but couldn’t, leading to that one fella dying when Pike had the door sealed.

No idea about TOS, but from their own storytelling it seems pretty clear internal transportation isn’t an issue.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119126693#Comment_119126693

I guess it's easier to make a mistake beaming someone inside a ship in space than beaming someone from a ship to a huge planet.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119126734#Comment_119126734

Again though, as mentioned in the post you quoted, they literally intended to beam people out of lower decks - except the transporter was broken. Which is the reason this conversation started, is the first thing we then think about is the doctors daughter. In this version of Trek there’s no hint of any problem with beaming within the ship.

(To your planet point though, just logically, nowhere should be easier to transport without a pad than your own fully mapped ship which is all stationary relative to the pad. Beaming to a planet has far far more variables)

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119126743#Comment_119126743

Site to site transport didn't exist yet that is why. The first one was in season 3 of TOS.

Maybe they would have been able to get on a transport bad on one part of the ship and beeam to a pad in a safer deck. Why its tricky maybe the warp signature of the ship interferes with it I do not know. That is just the way it is. Maybe they will change it in this show do or maybe they will give on explanation of why you can not beam within a ship. I am not too optimistic of this though.

breezy1985

What's the whole beaming inside a ship controversy. When was that an option ?

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119127557#Comment_119127557

It was not but they said the transporters were down before they had to evacuate the lower Decks as they went into the brown dwarfs Gravity.

corkie

AMKC quote:-

Site to site transport didn't exist yet that is why. The first one was in season 3 of TOS.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Site-to-site_transport

Can't believe that discussion about transporters are now popular again, to me they where always something to suit the plot.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/comments/nr11a1/why_dont_starships_always_just_use_site_to_site/

Questions before where why didn't they have a pad in sickbay? Oh wait they have one now, looking forward to episode explaining why they removed it for Kirk's Enterprise.

Transporter pad failure!

corkie

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Gorn

Gorn vs. Archer - The Modern Gorn on Star Trek Enterprise - CGI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK7NZ9IDtTc

Everyone can remember what Kirk's Gorn looked like.

pixelburp

Maybe my favourite episode so far. If you're going to riff on Wrath of Khan, don't call attention that you're doing it and just fly your own course. An excellent 50 minutes of television.

Tense, exciting and really ensured every major character in the ensemble had something to do. Traits revealed through action, great stuff. Captain Space Dad is fast becoming a bolter for Best Captain. The stakes and pacing were nicely ramped up without everything blown up to 11; while the resolution - effectively play possum and hope the Gorn ship leaves - a nice subversion on a classic ending through destruction of the enemy. Surviving was victory enough.

Yes yes Ortega remains a tad quippy, but honestly? That's clearly her role in this ensemble and she backed up her blather with talent. Plus, there was a single moment where Pike glared at her after some sass - I suspect we'll come back to that when we get to her solo episode.

GreeBo

Loving it other than 1 thing, the schoolgirl chit chat of the two up front. Everything has to be a sarky or smartarse comment and its dragging me out of ST world. Its fine on Orville where thats expected, but its just so unprofessional seeming on a ST bridge. Hell, even whats-her-face in Discovery engineer isnt that bad.