What do you think about this ?

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119120896#Comment_119120896

In general the WEF dump alarming and controversial material into the public sphere and they can see that it generates a very bad reaction amongst the general public and they have to row back. Then they do it again, more than once. So a forum of world leaders has no Public Relations strategy? Very odd.

Even on the most innocent interpretation it is a big mistake for a legislator to be spitballing dystopian scenarios.

Apart from anything else the passivity with which this is presented ("hey wouldn't it be bad if people had no property rights?") ignores the fact that such a thing can only come about via legislation. In other words, only the likes of Danish MPs can safeguard or destroy such rights vis a vis Danish citizens. So for a Danish MP to be openly "daydreaming" about this should not receive a sanguine response. It shouldn't be tolerated as it's beyond inappropriate, and obviously it erodes trust.

I'm sure you realise this yourself despite what you say.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119120866#Comment_119120866

That's a trick question, I know what angle you're coming in at now. You'll suggest I seen it on Twitter.

But sadly no, it's not a Twitter thing.

Answer me this please.

Would you be happy by 2030 if you weren't able to own nothing ? And you'll be happy :)

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119120976#Comment_119120976

Similar to the average person being called useless eaters, or with the help of vaccines etc we can decrease the population....

Idiot's, no wonder the conspiracy theorists are up in arms, and have a point.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119120998#Comment_119120998

It's not a trick question. You did see it on twitter or some such and then didn't bother to look into it beyond that.

You can't admit that because like all conspiracy theorists, you aren't very honest.

So again, prove me wrong. Tell us what you did to actually see if that was true. How did you look into it?

If you can't or won't say, then I'm right.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121010#Comment_119121010

In general I would say that as soon as someone starts making disturbing statements the onus isn't on me to "prove" they aren't joking and that they really mean it, I simply cease to trust that person.

There is no obligation to trust or believe anyone. Trust is earned.

If someone is starting from a position of "I will trust this prominent media-promoted billionaire/politician/celebrity until someone can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are actively motivated to do harm" that's a personal choice they've made to be open to strangers and to accept appearances. Perfectly reasonable in a way but as I said there is no obligation to do this. None at all.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121038#Comment_119121038

So it's about you being right, I suppose we're heading down that route again.

YouTube , I seen it on YouTube.

He did say you'll own nothing and be happy.

You never answered my question.

Would you be happy if you own nothing, and your salary the exact same as someone doing sweet f all.

The middle classes on the same financial security or insecurities as the people on welfare....

One class still has to work, the others have a leisurely lifestyle.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121095#Comment_119121095

Lol. Nope. That's not where the quote comes from man.

And notice how you didn't actually answer the question.

You saw some youtube video by some conspiracy nut, decided you liked it and accepted what you were told without question.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121122#Comment_119121122

You never answered my question about owning nothing, there you go again, asking people to do the impossible. No answer is appropriate enough.

Would you be happy owning nothing ?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121158#Comment_119121158

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-wef-idUSKBN2AP2T0

The question is pretty irrelevant though. There was no stated goal of any such thing by the WEF. It was a video dealing in hypotheticals. Man, thought experiments etc must blow your mind entirely....

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119120976#Comment_119120976

No they don't really. It's usually generic stuff about economics, sustainability and so on.

On the other hand conspiracy theorists, cranks, loons, paranoid people and assorted fringes do dump all sorts of nonsense and distortions on internet. On a very regular basis. You only have to look at this forum.

So for example, when some Danish MP had to write some blog about the future, she wrote a little piece about people not owning anything. And that was that. Until the loons found it, and decided it was some blueprint for the future, you can imagine the rest.

Likewise whenever poor Bill Gates does something, anything, there's an entire army of internet fruitcakes who are more than happy to seize on it, distort it, shriek about their creation, and then move onto the next bit of nonsense.

The problem, as always, is not the WEF, or 5G, or Democrats eating pizzas - it's the "enlightened" blob of excitable paranoid people who believe all their own creative writing a little too much.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121228#Comment_119121228

So if there's no stated goal, are we not going to see a dystopian society ?

Do you think we'll have the same freedoms we had for the last 30 year's.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121264#Comment_119121264

Poor Bill Gates, come on man.

This is Bill Gates

https://youtu.be/jgm455M-N3Y

bad2thebone

https://youtu.be/3aiw-bjpuws

Do you trust this man ?

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121272#Comment_119121272

who is taking them away?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121158#Comment_119121158

We should come up with a blog piece about how we'll be living on Mars in the future, owning nothing, eating insects, with a social credit system AND we'll all be chipped

Send it to the WEF, see if some clerk in there absentmindedly retweets it and watch the online Armageddon unfold.

I mean that's how the whole Qanon thing started, surely it's worth a shot..

And then we will have people on this forum asking such gems as "Would you be happy owning nothing on Mars?"

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121264#Comment_119121264

Bill Gates' own wife divorced him because, she said, of his relationship with a procurer of young girls.

Why do you still defend him and feel sympathy for him? Even in the mainstream and among people who know him personally his reputation is permanently trashed for, on the most innocent interpretation, terrible errors of judgement (or possibly much worse).

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121304#Comment_119121304

Nobody's taking them away, I mean nobody.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121388#Comment_119121388

you certainly implied it

Do you think we'll have the same freedoms we had for the last 30 year's.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121307#Comment_119121307

Sounds heavenly lol or some moon on Jupiter

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121357#Comment_119121357

I'm talking about the microchips in the vaccines, tracking humans with barcodes, depopulating the planet, that stuff

Not the private lives of people like Trump or Gates who've had affairs or a relationship with Epstein ;)

growleaves

Elite paedophilia was a David Icke conspiracy theory a decade ago. Now it's just a mundane fact.

Why would mass tracking or depopulating be beyond the ken of someone who rapes young girls in their "private life"? (Or is 'only' close friends with someone who does.)

The facade that Gates is a friendly, well-meaning nerd with business sense - which held good until very recently - is now totally exploded, never to be put back together again.

It isn't a vindication of every madcap conspiracy attributed to Gates but it shows that he is a *completely untrustworthy* person who deserves no benefit of the doubt of any kind, from anyone. He should be universally shunned.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121272#Comment_119121272

You're claiming that it's a goal... You should be able to point to some non autocratic governments that are aiming to achieve anything of the sort.

Absolutely no idea in relation to "freedoms" which is a vague term. Eg the introduction of minimum wages could be interpreted as a loss of a freedom. If we're to put a metric on it, freedoms have grown in Ireland in terms of being a more equitable society.

Meanwhile the politicians that tend to push Soros conspiracies etc tend to be the more autocratic politicians. Trump and Orban are coming to mind. Orban actively spent time targeting Soros. Press freedom under Orban went down. We never hear the conspiracy theorists calling out regimes like that...

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121496#Comment_119121496

There's no relation between David Icke and reality.

Paedophiles have been around since the year dot, however it's only really in recent decades, through changes in society and other factors that the issue has come more to the forefront, leading to larger investigations and uncovering abuses, e.g. the Catholic church

Conspiracy theorists have utterly nothing to do with that. However they screech endlessly that everyone in power is a paedophile (except for the serial adulterers they like) so when someone actually turns out to be a paedophile they say "we did that". No they didn't.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121400#Comment_119121400

Absolutely, without a doubt, these people have been on about how to reset everything for years, the variables will never fullfil their dream.

I'd convert to Shia Islam and go to Iran before I'd live in a dystopian western world.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121644#Comment_119121644

Maybe it would be a more interesting world if our local TDs woke up in the morning gripped by Dr Evil notions of a 1984 style dystopia, hell-bent on "controlling" and "tracking" the populace, all part of a perfect hivemind of other officials all working towards the same nefarious end-goal.

Sadly, I don't think they do. Still, conspiracy theorists keep the dream alive. Any day now.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121779#Comment_119121779

Well it's not going to happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if some TD's would go along with it if it was a proposal.

I remember an old guy who fought in the Irish civil war told me as long as sinn feinn are kept from running the country we'll be ok

He reckoned there would be curfews road blocks and if someone think who's running it now is bad. Well not as one tenth as bad if the shinners got in.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121158#Comment_119121158

Lol. Why is it impossible for you to explain what you did to verify something?

it's only impossible if you didn't actually verify it.

And no, I wouldn't be happy owning nothing. I wouldn't be happy owning a lot of stuff. My happiness isn't dependant on owning stuff.

It's not a relevant question because the WEF is not trying remove the concept of ownership.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122103#Comment_119122103

Humble bragging now about being happy with your lot lol . I like nice things that are well made and of quality. You're probably similar yourself.

I bet you wouldn't buy rubbish though.

I couldn't picture you in cheap hiking boots or wearing synthetic t-shirt s in hot weather.

I told you I heard Shwab talking about everyone owning nothing and they'll be happy.

I didn't get too deep into it, but I don't like him. He reminds me of emperor palpatine in starwars....

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122371#Comment_119122371

Ok. You claim to have heard him talk about it.

Where? When?

I think you are lying. I don't think he has actually said any such thing.

I know where the quote comes from and the context it was said in. It didn't come from Klaus Schwab and you're the first person to claim he said it.

So cool. Post the youtube link. Point to where he said it.

But lemme guess, you're going to make some excuse as to why you're not going to find it, right? Going to claim that it was deleted off youtube or something? Anything and everything accept admit that you were wrong because you were too lazy and dishonest to actually check into something?

bad2thebone

You're a dab hand at Twitter, there's hundreds of clips about the own nothing and be happy, search for it yourself....

Why ask me when it's at a few taps of the key board.

The dogs on the street know about it...

You're some idiot if you can't use YouTube...

I'm not posting you a link...go find it for yourself you lazy so and so...

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122497#Comment_119122497

You're not posting the link because it doesn't exist. You lied. You didn't see it on twitter.

You did nothing to actually verify the statement. You just swallowed the claim whole from some grifter.

And now weirdly, rather than just admit to this, you lied.

Why man? Why do you have to lie to support your position?

Why do you believe your position when you have to lie?

bad2thebone

You need everyone to hold you by the hand. You don't read or watch people's links because they're all lies.Sure go search yourself.

Says Pinocchio :)

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122539#Comment_119122539

I do read conspiracy theorists links. It's usually a good way to explain why they're misrepresenting them.

And I have searched. You're lying.

You know you're lying.

Please explain why. I genuinely don't get it.

You aren't preserving any illusion of credibility. No one is being fooled by your lie.

Are you lying on reflex? Do you think that if you try really really hard your lie will become truth?

Why do you not look into the stuff you believe? Are you afraid that you might start to question them?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122497#Comment_119122497

I don't think you are familiar with what happened, to recap.

A (nice) Danish politician sat down and wrote a hypothetical wishywashy piece about what they thought the world would look like in 2030. The WEF site retweeted it or published it on their site. Here it is.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/worldeconomicforum/2016/11/10/shopping-i-cant-really-remember-what-that-is-or-how-differently-well-live-in-2030/?sh=47e77af61735

Unfortunately, someone in the conspiracy community discovered this. And the community did what they do best, they went into Full. Batshiat. Mode. A screeching hysterical fit over the equivalent of a school essay.

99% of all hits you see online will be part of that adult meltdown. Like Qanon it got so blown out of proportion that actual fact-checks had to be written.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-wef-idUSKBN2AP2T0

We had the insane asylum in here banging on about it for at least a year. In the end most of them couldn't figure out what the conspiracy was (as usual), got bored and have generally piped down, waiting for the next big thing to go nuts about.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122655#Comment_119122655

It was published on the site first, with disclaimers stating that it didn't actually reflect any of their WEFs goals or wants. The context of the article makes it very clear. But of course, no conspiracy theorists actually read the article. (The article doesn't even say that no one will own anything.)

It was later included in some twitter video or something where the "you'll own nothing" quote was used in a list of other statements. This is what the majority of conspiracy theorists are screaming about.

A twitter video. Not an article. Not a statement. Not an actual goal.

None of them, bad2thebone included looked any deeper than the conspiracy grifter bleating that quote at them.

They just believed what they were told like good little sheep. And then, they lie about it to preserve that belief from mean and upsetting questions.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122738#Comment_119122738

Again, why are we debunking this stuff and not making a mint off these people

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122655#Comment_119122655

How do you know she is "nice"?

Obviously a national-level politician should not be writing dystopian fiction and a prominent think-tank should not be publishing it. She isn't George Orwell, she's a legislator with an obligation to protect people's rights so "imagining" these rights might disappear causes scandal.

Even if no one had got "the wrong end of the stick" it shows incredibly poor judgement on the part of several people.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122857#Comment_119122857

Have you read the article?

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122900#Comment_119122900

Yes. Have you?

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122809#Comment_119122809

morals and ethics

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122906#Comment_119122906

Yes. I don't believe you've actually read it.

Any comment on how your friend is lying and claiming the quote came from Schwab?

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122930#Comment_119122930

My friend? Cop on this is an anonymous forum. Ask him yourself

As for the article, if you're implying that the content is unobjectionable then there's no point in us discussing anything at all since we are too far apart in our assumptions.

Perhaps you would be happy to raise a family in a flexi-time building alternating the use of space with multiple strangers. Or to have no privacy and no access to a private vehicle.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122857#Comment_119122857

She can write whatever she wants. And an economics forum has every right to publish such harmless thought-provoking pieces. If insane people and fringe fundamentalists want to get all worked up over it, even better.

Hope she writes some more. Perhaps about a dystopian future where internet dwellers police her free speech...

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122975#Comment_119122975

It shows poor judgement. It's not really a free speech issue.

The issue is that putting out inflammatory material alienates people and dissolves the social trust that you seem to think is owed as some kind of duty.

Of course they can write anything they like. And people like me can point out how inappropriate it is coming from people in their position and how they're doing themselves no favours and aren't to be trusted with an expansion of power over e.g privacy rights.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122959#Comment_119122959

Well he's on your side arguing the same stuff you are. Yet, he's lying.

Have you no comment or thoughts on that at all? I think you're ignoring it because you've no issue with misinformation as long as it supports your views.

If you have read the article you'd understand that 1. it is not being suggested as a goal or a desire by anyone. 2. It is not described as either good or bad. 3. it does not say that the idea of ownership is removed. It does not say that you cannot have access to a private vehicle. it does not say you will be forced to share space with anyone.

Hence, because you don't seem to understand this, it's clear you've not actually read the article. You've only read conspiracy grifters describing the article to you, to convince you there's some sort of conspiracy.

And like you're friend, you're lying about it.

So can you point out where the WEF says their goal is to remove the concept of ownership by 2030?

A direct quote that states this clearly would be nice.

If you aren't able to produce this, could you explain why not?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119123006#Comment_119123006

I like how the poor judgement is on her part, not the insane people who went berserk over it.

Next up, geologists, physicists and scientists must take great care when writing anything so as not to trigger flat-earthers.

growleaves

"Well he's on your side arguing the same stuff you are. Yet, he's lying."

Therefore what?

"2. It is not described as either good or bad"

Therefore what? It is, as you say, presented neutrally. I am describing it as bad.

"3. it does not say that the idea of ownership is removed. It does not say that you cannot have access to a private vehicle. it does not say you will be forced to share space with anyone."

These are described as norms of the society in this scenario. For instance motorways are emptied of private vehicles and people cycle or travel on public transport. Nobody owns anything, everything is rented temporarily on a subscribership basis. This is the description of how people live in the society. The "everywoman" of this story lives in insecure accommodation which businessmen use when she is not present.

"And like you're friend, you're lying about it."

I'm not friends with rando strangers and haven't lied. You've seriously got your wires crossed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119123006#Comment_119123006

But the only people who are viewing it as "inflammatory" are the same types who believe COVID was a hoax etc. So it's a pretty odd demographic overall. The article was criticised at the time for excessive and unrealistic utopianism rather than for being dystopian btw.

And for the record, there's absolutely nothing inflammatory in the article. If anything it has more in common with the world of Star Trek. Feel free to point out the dystopian portions though.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119123055#Comment_119123055

He lied. I'm asking what your opinion is on it. The fact you are completely silent and won't even acknowledge that he's lying to support your side shows that you are fine with this kind of dishonesty.

You are claiming that the article is arguing in favour for the scenario, and that this argument is enough to conclude that the WEF's goal is to bring about this scenario.

And no, they are not described as the norms of the society. It does not say that "Nobody owns anything".

It describes that people outside the city in which this woman lives are free to own whatever they like. It also does not mention anything about ownship being made illegal or prohibited. It's shown that renting is simply cheaper and more convenient.

But this is all irrelevant as it's a fictional article.

Please quote where the WEF states that their goal is to bring about this system.

Can you point out where the WEF says their goal is to remove the concept of ownership by 2030?

A direct quote that states this clearly would be nice.

If you aren't able to produce this, could you explain why not?

And you did lie. You claim to have the read the article. This isn't true. You've only read conspiracy cranks talking about the article and convincing you that it points to some conspiracy.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119123098#Comment_119123098

I disagree.

I've seen huge numbers of people on twitter objecting to the WEF. The reputation of this "forum" is very bad and not improving.

In Star Trek people had secure private quarters, personal belongings which they could retain, the ability to travel privately and general privacy.

It's true that someone could regard the described world as ideal or utopian. I would differ so much from such a person that there would almost no point in discussion.