sick of crappy cycle lanes which actually disimprove travel for cyclists.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119147317#Comment_119147317

The Eden Park one is weird as that lane wasn't great to begin with throwing you off the road and into the rat runners on the drive, but at least its gotten rid of the illegal right hand turners onto Eden Park Road who don't look at the cycle lane. I still just take the lane on the way out of town as, like you said, it just stops you at a ped light crossing Kilmacud Road Upr. This is fine for me but I can see it causing conflict between drivers and cyclists, with one group not understanding why you would not go near it. The issue now is its difficult to get back into it so I can see alot of people just staying on the road until the other Kilmacud Road. The way down, at least you can skip the lights, but those two bumps wouldn't be nice if your not handy at bunny hopping. Doesn't bother me but its just as easy to stay on the road here as well now. Which ever I do, I still go onto the road straight after as Eden Park Drive junction is an accident waiting to happen.

I don't mind the bollards that much as it has reduced the number of drivers who swing into the bike lane to undertake a right turning vehicle, although not by much. Regrettably drivers seem to notice cyclists less when turning left, although maybe its because I moved and am not there as often it seems worse, maybe it was always that bad.

Flinty997

A lot of cycling infrastructure seems just thrown together not simply by someone who doesn't cycle, but by someone who also didn't give a toss.

bikedude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119147685#Comment_119147685

My main issue is they created a infrastructure that will increase the conflict with drivers, I am taking the road position also at the junction, but I am just waiting someone to be very unhappy about it. Or sticking to the cycle lane, but seeing a green light in the road and getting hit by a car turning as is not clear who should stop there.

The o way into town, more than once I had to really slow down as people waiting to cross / getting to the light to press the button are stating on the cycle track, including other cyclists that are waiting the light to change before crossing. That’s poor design again, that wasn’t there before.

Bollards all the way down the road, is making more difficult for drivers to see cyclists when leaving their garages and when turning. It also slow down the drivers a lot as the space is very tight when turning left or exiting their garages, and increase the time they are on the cycle lane. Is better than the raised kerb they installed first time around.

When you need to overtake a slower cyclist, it increases the time you need to be on the road, as you need to find a gap to get back in. And makes it much more dangerous to do so, as you may hit a bollard.

Just feels like everything was planned by someone that never cycled once, but had to add a cycle lane for compliance reasons .

Macy0161

The only thing I would say about the wands/ kerbs is that I was nearly wiped out a couple of times along there with cars swinging around right turning vehicles. Also stops the dicks who deliberately blocked a left filter (Roebuck Road junction used to be bad for that ime). There's space to do it properly most of the way, but I'd expect them to fall into the usual trap of ceding the cyclist priority, which at least is avoided with on road with wands.

It's all reminding me why I used to go the N11 when I was in Clonskeagh, and cut through UCD.

Flinty997

Problem with wands is it encourages undertaking of left indicating vehicles. Just as you can take the lane when cycling. When driving you can pull tight to a Kerb to prevent being undertaking when turning left. Can't with wands. I know cede right of way etc. Wait for the cyclist etc.

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148018#Comment_119148018

you know this is the cycling forum? pulling tight to the curb just to stop cyclists filtering is a dick move - I always try and leave space. It's pretty much the only benefit of the painted cycle lanes, most drivers will drive and queue to the right of the line so cyclists can then filter and get up to the top of junctions in traffic.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148018#Comment_119148018

Is the whole "mirror, signal & manouvre" thing gone nowadays? If a driver looks behind properly they'll see someone approaching on their left. The biggest problem is that drivers tend not to look for cyclists.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148100#Comment_119148100

People would argue taking the lane is the same.

At some point a driver has to cross the lane of cyclists. You're not meant to undertake a left turning vehicle. That's not only a dick move its dangerous and will get the inexperienced squished. Its why staying left as a cyclist isn't always the right thing, and taking the lane is safer.

What the problem with queuing in a line with vehicle as its turns left. No patience?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119140167#Comment_119140167

"stuck behind slower cyclists"

As more people cycle, this is how it'll be. When only a few people had cars it was grand. When every Sean or Sinead got one, frustration with traffic jams.

So cyclists will have to be patient, if you want to encourage more out on their bikes, then need to put up with more people in your way, if trying to zip along.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148164#Comment_119148164

Its a bad idea as a cyclist to assume a driver has 360 vision 100% of the time. its not physically possible either.

Some cyclists have a habit of cycling too fast for the conditions, then undertaking at speed. Bad idea.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148240#Comment_119148240

Canal can be like this, impossible to overtake another cyclist. But does it really matter on the commute. It will make almost no difference to the journey time. Just chill and you'll get your chance, usually at the next set of lights.

Montage of Feck

I'd rather see no cycle lanes lanes than the current mess, unless point a to b routes are created they are pointless.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148343#Comment_119148343

I think its better as it is. Cycling in heavy traffic is mostly safer, you get more priority over cars. Its perhaps slower if you are a fast cyclist.

But the idea was to get more non cyclists cycling. Don't know if there's been recent survey on the canal to show the numbers between the canals.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148277#Comment_119148277

If you know there is a cycle lane on your left and you intend turning left then you should check properly before turning. If you cannot see then keep checking as you slowly/gradually turn. As for cyclists "undertaking", this is completely legal.

In practice, the cycle lane is a separate traffic lane* and if a driver plans on turning left (therefore crossing the lane) they must do so safely. Whilst I'm not defending someone barging their way past an actively left-turning driver, the reality is that most collisions are simply because the driver was not paying enough attention to the conditions.

I do love how most drivers are too impatient to wait behind cyclists for a safe opportunity to pass yet then I'm told that cyclists can be too fast.

* I'm aware that the legal definintion of traffic lanes including cycle lanes is ambiguous.

Flinty997

It not legal for cyclist undertake a indicating vehicle. Its dumb regardless.

However as a cyclist you cannot overtake on the inside if the vehicle you intend to overtake:

Is signaling an intention to turn to the left and will move to the left before you overtake it

Kinda hard to argue against a driver moving left when the rules specifically mentions it.

You're still arguing that a driver can see 360 degrees 100% of the time, with perfect sight lines no blind spots. Which might be how the law is written but isn't how it works in real life. Lots of reasons why visibility is impeded. Speed of the cyclist is a factor even if you want to ignore it. As a cyclist its a bad habit to ignore speed and limitations of others.

Anyway the point is the wands prevent a driver from moving left. I mean I prefer the wands. Its just not without some issues.

Macy0161

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148018#Comment_119148018

The junction I mentioned, has no left turn. It's a T junction to the right. No reason for motorists to block left filtering, except being a dick.

thehairygrape

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058247582/sick-of-crappy-cycle-lanes-which-actually-disimprove-travel-for-cyclists

I presume that somewhere there is a ‘target’ for the installation of cycle lanes. The only relevant fact to the people putting them in is that the ‘targets’ are met and they can boast about their cycle friendly cities. The fact that the people designing these lanes have clearly never sat on a bike seems irrelevant. Bad enough that they’re not fit for use, but a lot actually increase danger to cyclists. And annoy other road users. It’s called a lose-lose situation.

loyatemu

It not legal for cyclist undertake a indicating vehicle.

citation please...

there's judgement calls all the time whether you're a cyclist or a motorist - if I'm cycling up the inside of slow moving traffic, and I know I'll make the junction before the turning traffic, then I'll continue to filter. What's the alternative - stop dead in the cycle lane everytime I reach a car with their indicator on? Also if a car overtakes me approaching a junction they intend to take, they can hardly argue they didn't see me. You can't just barge into another occupied lane (which is what the cycle lane is) because you want to take the turn - the traffic already in that lane has right of way, it's no different to any other multi-lane road.

Dr_Colossus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148297#Comment_119148297

True and the quays, everyone down to the speed of the slowest denominator and if you do manage to pass they then shoal you at the lights or just break them altogether. Can't understand why the slowest cyclists always insist on being first in line at each set of lights, I don't mind all the electric bikes as they've good acceleration and average speeds but others and typically those on Dublin Bikes are head wreckers. Had an argument one morning with such a chap, had to explain that I was behind me for decent stretches and had already overtaken him 3 times for him to belligerently push his way to the front of the queue at all the red lights.

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148825#Comment_119148825

Get thee behind me, cyclist...

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119147896#Comment_119147896

My main issue is they created a infrastructure that will increase the conflict with drivers, I am taking the road position also at the junction, but I am just waiting someone to be very unhappy about it. Or sticking to the cycle lane, but seeing a green light in the road and getting hit by a car turning as is not clear who should stop there.

This is a straight ahead on the way into town so not actually an issue, on the way up, I think its pretty clear that the intention if you stay in the cycle lane at the junction, you are following the crossing lights, not the road lights, hence I take the road. I have one or two who seem unhappy on the way to town but they realise within 20 seconds there was no reason as a bike will nearly always reach the Goat and get through the junction faster than a car on that road.

The o way into town, more than once I had to really slow down as people waiting to cross / getting to the light to press the button are stating on the cycle track, including other cyclists that are waiting the light to change before crossing. That’s poor design again, that wasn’t there before.

Indeed, and its not as if they had a whole end of the road to play around with there once they cut off the road.

Bollards all the way down the road, is making more difficult for drivers to see cyclists when leaving their garages and when turning. It also slow down the drivers a lot as the space is very tight when turning left or exiting their garages, and increase the time they are on the cycle lane. Is better than the raised kerb they installed first time around.

Slowing drivers down is a positive to the design, in fact it is good road design in general. It is why many places are getting rid of those curved left turns as they increase speed and the danger to everyone. Also, if they can't see a cyclist because of a bollard as they pull out of their garage (not reverse as you should not be reversing onto a road), then they shouldn't be driving. Drivers reversing out of driveways should be smacked with 3 points and a fine.

When you need to overtake a slower cyclist, it increases the time you need to be on the road, as you need to find a gap to get back in. And makes it much more dangerous to do so, as you may hit a bollard.

I hate to say if but suck it up, if you catch a cyclist, as a cyclist, and there is no way to overtake safely, you just wait. Simple as. It's this attitude in drivers that make many of them absolute asshats on the road.

Just feels like everything was planned by someone that never cycled once, but had to add a cycle lane for compliance reasons .

100% but on the same note, while it is worse for me in terms of speed etc. It is better for most casual cyclists. For many of those who are just popping to school or the shops, only new to cycling and are really only doing 15kmph on average, these lanes ae not only adequate, they are great.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148781#Comment_119148781

If it was multilane a driver could move into the left lane to turn left from it. So you can't claim its multilane then not want a car to move left into it. Even bus lanes end before a junction to allow other vehicles to turn left from them. Also you want the car to stop dead, but aren't willing to do the same. If cyclists are traffic, kinda beholds cyclist to also treat cars as traffic.

Anyway the point is wands aren't perfect. If you want to ride selfishly thats your own choice. Personally I'm happy to give way to others if makes things safer and promotes good will. Often as a cyclist I will to give a driver space to make a turn. Its makes no difference to my journey time, makes everything move smoother and safer.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148825#Comment_119148825

The shoalers on a Dutch high Nellie or someone on bike with a rusted chain. The urge to just the oil the chain at the lights is hard to resist.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148874#Comment_119148874

Obligatory link to "Performance" vid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn29DvMITu4&ab_channel=RobinMoore

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148825#Comment_119148825

Bit of the 'wild west' about it, I suppose it may settle down in time when people agree on more etiquette. But maybe not.

Flinty997

Hope fully it will give way to more permanent, better design infrastructure all to a consistent standard. More clarity.

JMcL

The biggest problem is that drivers tend not to look for cyclists.

Or in a lot of cases "look but don't see" Modern car design doesn't help - probably as a function of them being bigger, for occupant safety the frames have increased in size. Out family car is a Ford SMax and the A and B pillars on this thing are massive. I don't usually drive it, but was shocked at the amount that remained hidden behind the pillars compared to the other car (a Focus). I now make sure I compensate for that when driving it by consciously making sure I've not missed anything

On the subject of pointless cycle infra, there's this effort from Kilkenny coco on the Waterford road. It seems to be a relatively well specced and constructed cycle path which just ....ends - in a barrier and some gravel on some garage forecourt. And no doubt the annual report to the Dept of the Environment proudly trumpeted these fantastic new facilities for cyclists in whatever year

https://goo.gl/maps/w3PF7b5w8hR7TwKj7

Flinty997

I agree some modern cars have very poor quarter visibility due to thick pillars.

But there is another problem your brain actually filters out things that are right in front of you.

https://road.cc/content/news/235330-new-research-finds-many-drivers-really-dont-see-cyclists-or-motorbikers-video#:~:text=%E2%80%9CMotorcycles%20appear%20to%20be%20very,is%20termed%20'inattentional%20blindness'.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119150400#Comment_119150400

Poor visibility indeed;

https://twitter.com/cosmicamericana/status/1532506779510243341

Flinty997

I'm not sure you understood my link..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYeeTvitvFU&ab_channel=TomScott