2022 DCM Novice Thread

turfman1

Haven’t been posting much here at all but have been reading all the posts.

I travelled up to Lucan today for their 5 mile road race. Lovely event very well organised.

I didn’t race it all out but gave it a good effort, finished in 38mins so happy enough.

My goal for Marathon is 3:59 so I’m hoping this is in or around where I should be. Could probably have gone a bit faster but was glad to see the finish line all the same.

Have the Dublin Half and Longwood 3/4 left now before the Marathon.

MisterJinx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119569599#Comment_119569599

Very sorry to hear this. Hope the recovery goes alright and see you at the start line next year

MisterJinx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119570018#Comment_119570018

I'll be taking this advice as well. Couple of blisters on the heals that need to be managed. Is compeed available in the pharmacy?

Lambay island

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119571093#Comment_119571093

Yes most pharmacies, certainly the bigger ones will have them. There are 2 versions of the heel ones. One will have picture of a pair of high heels on them. They work just aswell. I'll say no more 😁

MisterJinx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119571462#Comment_119571462

Super thank Lambay. They are not too bad thankfully but would want them sorted out soon

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119571462#Comment_119571462

Those ones probably cost more though! 😀

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119569599#Comment_119569599

Sorry to hear this, but sometimes you have to call it. Try to get plenty of easy stuff in when the injury heals. Always hard to have to drop out but the marathon isn't the only game in town.

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119570204#Comment_119570204

Have you considered seeing a physio? Not unusual at all to have some aches and pains during a marathon block and sometimes it's not as bad as you feared, unless it's an injury you know well. Why the calf sleeves?

The Royal Scam

I did 2 LSR runs about 3 weeks ago in runners that I should not have been running in (they were as flat as school pumps) while waiting on new runners. After the second one I this dull pain on the inside and outside of my shin.

A friend got treated for shin splints last year and he was saying sounds pretty much what he thinks I have. He wears them and says that he has never suffered since.

I will have rested for 10 days and have been icing and massaging every day and feel much better. If my tester run on Tuesday goes bad, straight to the physio with me. Thanks for the suggestion.

Kellygirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119572280#Comment_119572280

Definitely go to a good hands on physio. I often get pains in my right shin in particular that are not shin splints but the calf muscle extremely tight and pulling. For me I regularly have an issue in my hip and ankle and the pain is showing up in the calf. My physio goes straight for my ankle and hip every time I come in with the calf / shin issue and problem is usually solved. No harm to get regular rub downs from a physical therapist or goos sports massage person from here on in too.

Adiaga 2

Week 10 done!

Monday 5km easy pace 6:13 / km

Tuesday 6.5Km easy pace 6:15 / km

Wednesday 2km wu 10km PMP 1.4km cd

Thursday 6.5km rec pace 6:25 / km

Sunday 30.6km LSR pace 6:25 / km

Week went well. Easily the most mileage I've done in a week at 62km. The pace run was off again though. Very similar to what @68 lost souls posted earlier - just couldn't get the pace. Especially the first km after WU - it was 5:11. Got better after that but still a bit too quick for the most part(hoping for the 4hr mark). I don't have a smart watch either, just the phone with wired HPs so it's a bit messy checking it on the go. 

Fair play to those who did the LSR in the rain on Saturday! It was lovely yesterday and even in that it was hard enough going towards the end. I took 3 gels with me. They don't taste very nice but around the 24km mark I was craving that last one! I am thinking of taking 4 gels for the 20 mile run. Is that overkill?

Really sorry to hear that @onrail has had to drop out. It's so easy for a niggle to turn into something worse. Hope the recovery goes well and and he can get back out there again soon.

Laineyfrecks

Week 11😊

Well done on completing week 10 everyone.

In week 11, the mileage increases again, but just a touch 

Plan|Monday|Tuesday|Wednesday|Thursday|Friday|Saturday|Sunday

HHN1|rest|4m easy|8m easy|4m easy|rest|16m lsr|cross

Boards|rest,cross or 3m rec|4m easy|8m easy|4m easy w/ 5 x strides|rest,cross or 3m rec|20m lsr|3m rec

It's the landmark 20 miler for the boards crew - you already have a 19 miler behind you, what's another mile😉 There are no PMP miles this week, which should help keep the legs a smidgen fresher for the long run. For the HHN1 guys, this will be the second highest weekly mileage that you will do all plan, so give this week your full attention. A good night's sleep is the best recovery you can have. The mileage is really peaking over the next 4-5 weeks, and one big part of tackling that will be getting enough sleep to aid the recovery. Have a look at your current habits maybe and see if you can make some changes to improve that. If needed of course, maybe some people are already good for this!

By now you should be treating the long runs as trial runs for the marathon. From dinner the night before and breakfast the morning of, to clothing and hydration during, you should be practicing all aspects of DCM Sunday (except of course the drinking afterwards 😜) Find out what's working for you, change the things now that don't work, making the day itself as less stressful as possible is very important. Don't leave things till the last minute to try!

A few questions to ask yourself at this stage;

- How was week ten for you?

- Write down your progress - where have you come from as a runner since starting this plan?

- What are the small/big changes that you need to make in the coming few weeks BEFORE the taper.

- What are the things that you NEED to do in the coming 3-4 long runs to better prep for DCM?

Best of luck with this weeks training, remember to stick to the plan at the correct paces, it will all be worth it on the big day!

Laineyfrecks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119569599#Comment_119569599

Really sorry to read this, best of luck with your recovery & your future training.

Laineyfrecks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119569936#Comment_119569936

Ah hello stranger, hope all is well with you😊

Fully agree with all that has been said here, I have said it before consistency is key, getting those miles in the legs is so important so that you are fully prepared for the day. The marathon is a beast of a distance, so many things can crop up on the day that you might never have thought of but having the endurance, strength & resilience built up both physically & mentally will really help you out.

Laineyfrecks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119570204#Comment_119570204

I think I would agree with the advice of going to see a physio, better to get professional advice to know exactly what you are dealing with. Keep us updated!

MisterJinx

So week 10 done for me too and did all the runs as per the plan.

Monday Rest - @Murph_D thanks for the prompt there last week. You were right, I was feeling very good last week and just kept running after the 10 mile and wound up with a 9 day running streak. I didn't take my rest day(s) and could have put myself in a place where an injury might arise. That week was outside the 10% rule so made a conscious decision to make sure I took rest days this week to allow the body to recover.

Tuesday - 10K Easy @ 5.17 m/k avg HR 135

Wednesday - PMP Effort session - again happy with this session. 1 mile WU, 10K @ PMP effort, CD. Might be a tad of the fast side as I'm only using HR on these however will look at the pace as it gets closer to the time. If I've to slow it up a bit that is fine.

Thursday - 8.5K easy @ 5.19m/k avg HR 137

Friday 6K recovery @ 5.31 m/k avg HR 131

Sunday LSR 31K @ 5.31 m/k avg HR 139. Like @Laineyfrecks advise above, having taken my rest days (and always planned to do this on the Sunday) I treated this as a "session" rather than a slog. Had the belt with 3 Gels and the Chews, 2 x drinking flasks (a 250ml and a 150ml) and a few spare bits and bobs. Kept myself fuelled for this, a chew at the beginning, gel at 1 hr, another couple of chews and a gel again at 2hrs. Stopped in a shop and topped up the water at 25K. Overall happy with this. I did start to feel the heat / tiredness at 22K and my HR went up a bit and never settled back into true easy. I noticed the legs at 27k but they kept going and I managed the hills on the way home better than expected. I think they fuelling helped in this respect. Phoenix park was lovely agian yesterday, Mick Clohisey passed me a couple of time, what a runner!

Next couple of weeks I'll focus on getting these LSR's very comfortable and getting home feeling like I can run another 10K. Going to look at a new belt as the one I have is a bit fiddly (especially as I was running with the phone but won't have that on race day). Have a PT session this evening for a sports massage which I'm looking forward to :-)

I've bought some other gels as well to try. The ones I have have been fine but going to try some SIS ones (edit: my order has just been cancelled on amazon!). I did notice that they give a nice pep in the step after taking them however I take them very slowly over 5/10 mins and I find they impact my breathing a little when taking them and it's a bit of a faff. I will test out the combination of these with the chews and see what is working for me.

Next 3 weeks are busy on the life front so I'll have to focus on the sessions and getting the easy runs in where possible. Mileage may slip down but not sure if that will be an issue..?

Dublinlad1989

Weekly Update

Overall a good week, this was my highest mileage i've completed since starting the marathon training and to see how far i've come in the last month or two is a really big positive. I missed out on the LSR last weekend so was looking forward to getting this one done and seeing the increase in the mileage.

Monday - rest

Tuesday - 6.6km @ 6:22 per km

Wednesday - 10.5km. 1km warm up, 8km at PMP of 6 Mins per km, 1.5km warm down

Thursday - Rest

Friday - 5km @6:27 per km

Saturday - Rest

Sunday - 23km @ 6:28 per km

LSR: This was the longest run i've ever done since i started running. The first 18km went well enough. I could feel my hips starting to get sore after about 10km and then at 18km i just ran out of energy and it was a tough run for the next 5 km. The only good thing is i know what happened and what went wrong. I didn't treat this as a "marathon run". I ended up having a chipper on saturday night which i know is a terrible idea and won't make that mistake again. The breakfast was good before the run and i fueled well with 3 gels, one every 6km or so. I only brought water with me and i think i need to bring some Lucozade to help with the electrolytes. Also need to make sure i'm doing a full stretch before i go out on each run.

Overall i know i need to prepare better for my Long Runs and will make sure i do going forward, my previous long run of 20km 2 weeks ago felt really good the whole time because i had prepared much better for it.

AntrimGlens

Week 12 Done & Dusted.... and the taper begins 😀

Highest mileage of the block, rounded out at 50 miles for the week.

Monday - rest day

Tuesday - steady run 8.5 miles @ 8.46min miles

Wednesday - 10 miles at 8 min miles

Thursday - 60 min @ easy 6.5m @ 9.35 min miles

Friday - 4 easy @ 9.20 min miles

Saturday - rest

Sunday - 21 miles @ 9.04 min miles

Good solid week all round, no real niggles or pains. Bought a pair of Endorphin Pro 2's as I felt my Brooks were getting to the end of their running life. Went out in them on Tuesday night and they felt ok, but maybe not as much support as I needed. took them for another run on Wednesday night and I flew through 10 miles easily @ 8min mile pace. Had a bit of a pain in my quad during the run and also in the arch of my left foot, so I don't know if it was the shoes or the fact that I'm wearing insoles in them also for plantar. Didn't wear them for my long run on Sunday as it was lashing rain and I don't know if I'm keeping them or trying to give them back for a pair half a size bigger. Wore my brooks and they just felt comfortable so I might just wear them on marathon day and forget about wearing something with more bounce.

Woke up on Sunday morning at 5.20 and had the breakfast listening to the rain bouncing off the windows and the wind blowing things around. Stepped out the door at 6 and promptly went NOPE and went back to bed. Lay in bed debating with myself to go now or in the afternoon when it was meant to clear up, as I didn't fancy my longest run in miserable conditions. Convinced myself to get out into it as I knew if I didn't do it first thing it could easily not get done at all.

My house is a couple hundred metres from the sea so when I get to the Coast Road I always have a decision to make depending on is it a north easterly or south westerly wind, am I running home into a headwind or with one! Sunday mornings decision wasn't easy but I opted to run the last 8 miles into the wind as they were flat. Got absolutely drenched within fifteen minutes of being out, it was like summer had vanished and it was straight into winter training with the amount of water on the roads and leaves on the ground. Thankfully the sun came out after ten miles and I got dried off and the last 11 miles were pleasant running. The last mile to my house is uphill and was my quickest mile of the run, so legs feel strong enough to cope, fuelling and hydration went well so I feel well prepared now and have an idea of where I'm aiming for on race day.

Our club hosted our annual 5K run on Friday night on a very flat fast course and normally I'd be mad keen to do it to try and get a pb as it is a pb course. This year I happily said no, I'll marshal as I didn't want to put myself at the risk of injury or getting a niggle, which other years I would have taken the risk and ran, but thankfully I was able to see the bigger picture this year. Another year older and wiser!! (The winner did it in 15.31)

Honestly can really see the merits and benefits of slowing things down, I'm a million miles away from where I was at the same stage in previous training blocks where I always felt on the edge of injury or got one!! So thanks Mentors.

Good running all.

Turkish1

Another positive week in the bag.

Had the week off work which helped in terms of scheduling and getting the time to get out.

Monday - 7.5k recovery @ 5:38 per km. On the fast side, need to slow it to about 6per km for proper recovery run (although it felt very easy at the time)

Tuesday - 11.1k interval session. 1k warm up and then 8x 1km intervals @ sub 4:10 per km. 2min rest between each. A tough session but felt I could have done another couple if I had to.

Wednesday - 11k easy run @ 5:38per km.

Thursday - 30km long run @ 5:31 per km. This one was big for me mentally. Previous furthest run was 25k and I felt very leggy doing that. Felt much better on this 30k run, brought water with me and had 4 gels throughout @ 8km, 13km, 18km and 23km. Also managed to pick up the pace to 5min per km for the final 3km - just to try get myself used to having to dig in towards the end of the long runs. At the end of the run, I felt I could still have gone and kept running with no issues.

Friday - 9km recovery @ 6 per km. Feels like the right pace for a recovery for me. Avg heart rate of 126bpm (in comparison to 138bpm on the Monday 'recovery' run).

Sorry to hear @onrail that you need to pull the plug, hope the recovery goes well.

Turkish1

Oh actually I meant to ask - in terms of the long runs, I know they top out at 20miles which leaves pretty much 10km to 'find' on the day.

I am somewhat tempted to go slightly further that the 20mile mark as 10km feels like alot to leave short of the training. Is the rationale behind the 20mile efforts to mitigate the risk of injury or what is the reason behind it? Obviously everyone is different in that regard, but for my own mentality I would love to have to 'only' find 5/6/7km on the day.

Dublin334

Week 10 Update

Thankfully all runs completed as per Boards Plan. The 2 main learnings for me were on the PMP & LSR

Wed - 1m w/u, 6m pace, 1m c/d @ 8.56 per mile - Felt OK for most of the run. For a warm up, I find it hard to warm up slow and then transition to a harder pace. I find it much easier to run 7 miles at a regular pace than 1 slow and 6 faster.

Sat. LSR - 19 miles @ 10.13 per mile - This was a real endurance test as I went out Saturday morning at it rained for the full 3hrs 14 mins of running. Got a few good learnings about running in the rain. First up the 2 in 1 shorts worked really well. They didn't absorb any water, avoided chafing and also kept me warm. The last day it rained on a long run the t shirt I was wearing started to absorb the water and I had to start wringing it out as I was running. This time I had a better running top but as it got damp it also got quite cold. HR stayed very stable and presume this was related to rain keeping me cool. Took 2 gels at about 8 mile and 14 mile and they worked well. My legs/hips felt like cement blocks by the end and was really stiff after the run. I must have a look to see if there are some S&C exercises like squats etc. that I should be doing to help build up the hip flexors or quads.

I was happy I went out in the rain as I picked up a few good lessons on the running gear should the forecast be poor on the big day. It was great watching all the great LSRs come in over Strava. Well done on so many great runs over the weekend.

Felexicon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573353#Comment_119573353

I'm a bit the same but figure you just need to trust the plan. Was listening to the Off The Ball panel on the DCM a few weeks ago and it was interesting that Mick Clohiesy said he used to run over marathon distance in his training when he started out. Sonia and Cathriona thought it was a mad approach.

https://youtu.be/rO4AxWW7Ff8

MisterJinx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573855#Comment_119573855

I watched that too. There was some interesting things in it, definitely worth a listen/watch

Treviso

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573353#Comment_119573353

No need to go over the 20 miles for these plans, it's more about time on your feet than anything. Anything further would see most of you running longer than your expected marathon time. You have to consider that you're running these LSRs with a full weeks training in the legs, so imagine that the 20 mile run is the last 20 miles of the marathon. Factor in 2 weeks of taper, plus the adrenaline of race day/supporters and the last 10km will take care of themselves (once you've trained and fuelled correctly of course!)

Laineyfrecks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573353#Comment_119573353

It is very normal to have fear, especially as this is new. Fear mostly comes from the unknown & I felt the same while training for my first marathon. I thought, “How will I be able to run those last 6 miles if I’ve only run 20 in training?” It doesn’t make sense on paper, but it worked and I finished without even a glimpse of the wall. The longer you run beyond 20 miles, the higher the risk for developing injuries, burning out and peaking too soon. Plus, running up to the 20-mile distance is enough to build the endurance to get through the marathon, but not too much to risk fatigue, exhaustion and inadequate recovery. A balanced marathon training program approach avoids putting all your eggs into one basket, allowing you to recover enough. It's important to remember that being prepared for your marathon is not about just one long run. It's about the consistent training you've been doing for months. If you've been following your marathon training schedule, you'll be ready, even though you've never run 26 miles before.

Laineyfrecks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573048#Comment_119573048

Well done a another week done. Great to see you practicing your fuelling on your long runs & also changing your mindset about them, this can only stand to you. I am still practicing my own fuelling strategy for the big day so finding out what doesn't work now is great so you can fix it. Life will get busy, happens to us all. Main thing I would advise it to get the long runs done & as advised in a few replies previously, see where you could possibly get the time to fit the other runs in that doesn't have a huge impact on family life. These next few weeks are important so try your best!

We must have been in the Park at the same time as I passed Mick Clohisey myself on the Furze Road, got a good morning in reply to my nod & wave... still in awe of his wonderful flowing locks whilst he's running☺️

Enjoy the massage!

Laineyfrecks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573081#Comment_119573081

Well done on another week! It's great to see that you are slowing the runs down, this will really benefit you. Well done on running your longest distance ever, it's a great feeling. Sorry it didn't go as well as you would have liked but you have learnt from it so that can only be good! Being prepared is a huge help for your long run as you know yourself.

Best of luck with this weeks training😊

Laineyfrecks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573237#Comment_119573237

Well done, the excitement must be kicking in now too! You honestly don't know how happy you have made me on this dreary Monday afternoon reading that you have seen the merits & benefits of SLOWING things down😁 The only thanks we require is you getting to the race line healthy & going on to run a marathon that you are happy with!

Enjoy the taper😉

l3m0n5

Week 10

Mon 5,2 km 33:20 6:28/km

Thu 7,1 km 44:25 6:15/km

Sat 21,1 km 2:07:42 6:03/km -- Dingle Half marathon

Sun 5,6 km 34:39 6:13/km

total -- 39k

So this week went very much off the rails. Woke up Monday had a sore throat but still got my run in, by 6pm Monday night I was feeling awful and suspected I had tonsillitis. Amazing managed to get a early appointment Tuesday for the Dr. she confirmed I had the very start of tonsillitis on my right tonsil so got some anti botics for that. Took Tuesday & Wednesday off to give me a chance and took it easy Thursday.

I had always planned to run the Dingle Half as it was fall out from 2020, originally I was going to do my 9km before joining the race and doing the last 21km in the race, Dingle isn't a race where you would try to get a PR or anything close as its hilly as hell. It was going to be my secnd time to do Dingle so I knew what to expect.

Saturday morning I didn't feel great when I got to Dingle. The weather defo impacted that. So I decided to just run the race and take my time.

I did keep the first 10 mile to roughly slightly faster than my normal easy day pace doing it at around 6:20, that I put down to be dragged along by the crowd. At mile 10 I was feeling good so allowed my self to pick up the pace and run just under the 6 min mark. Saturday was also the wettest run I've probably ever done for the first 10, we had thunder and some lighting at on stage and rivers crossing the road.

Like ever race I try to come away with something I learned for Dingle it was SIS gels are near impossible to open in heavy rain. Also I'm defo not going to be running the 3/4 marathon race the crowd pulling me along will push me to go too fast.

I might some day do the Dingle full marathon but the thoughts of the hill at mile 22 will make me thank full on the 30th.

E.coli

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573353#Comment_119573353

I did a presentation on this subject previously. Spent a bit of time researching where the 20 mile came about. At the time that many of the plans that are the foundation of training information (the Hal Higdon, Runnersworld etc) books for more mass participation marathon running came about this was in line with the average finishing time which put the 20 mile run in or around 3 hours.

The idea around this was based on research done at the time which showed that efforts over 3 hours tended to plateau in terms of aerobic benefits (i.e endurance) while injury risk inversely increased significantly over the 3 hours. There was also the idea of the recovery needed from such an effort

In terms of running longer there is a mental benefit in terms of giving you the confidence in your ability to cover the distance but from a physical standpoint it doesn't stack up on the risk reward ratio.

Its worth noting that discussion from the likes of Mick C etc that they will cover those sort of distances in much less time. Mick could cover 30 miles in 3 hrs compared to a beginner trying to cover 20 miles in same time frame and even he believes that this is too long in terms of time on his feet and this is someone who has put 1000s of miles of training in over a lifetime