2022 DCM Novice Thread

Sammy2012

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262627#Comment_119262627

Thanks very much for the support. I have been running fairly regularly since January. Would have done 2 5ks per week and a longer run at the weekend. Had got up to 16.5k and then scaled back a bit. I got sick around the middle of May and took a couple of weeks off so finding it hard to get back into it but we'll get there. An easy running pace for me would be around a 6 minute km and depending on my mood 5.50 is very manageable. I run a lot around where we life and as its rural there is a LOT of hills so I feel this helps me a good bit.

I did see the Hal Higdon plan and yes its very similar. I was thinking about continuing with the Irish life one and then maybe switching in a few weeks as I should be able to do the 5 runs q week for the summer but once Sept starts I'm not sure. Would this be an option?

Laineyfrecks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119260331#Comment_119260331

Welcome to the thread Sammy2012!

I would have to agree with Lambay island that it would be good to have you follow the Hal Higdon as it is good when others are doing the same plan & its relatable but it's totally up to you. As for the mental aspect of running a marathon it is important to have lots of support & encouragement around you. As the runs get longer each week you will gain more mental strength & belief too.

As for training paces, I think you are running too fast for your easy runs, there are so so many benefits to running slow, a lesson that took a while to sink in for me but I got there😜I would suggest running at 7min kms roughly. Both plans here are based on the McMillan calculator. You need to input a recent race time and then check the Training paces tab where it will give you suggested paces for recovery, easy and long runs. I'd advise to work at the very slower end of those ranges.

Very best of luck!

Magellanic

Day 3 down, hope everyone is off to a good start.

Question for any Garmin users. I have just hooked up my Polar HR monitor (used for cycling) to my watch and used it for this evenings run. I am following the half marathon plan from Garmin (for next 2 weeks) and it had me doing Sprint Repeats 8x800m.

When finishing the run, Garmin beeped at me advising my lactate threshold (LTHR) was now 4.12/km @ 167bpm. Reading up now on how to understand this, but my question is: Is there a way to use LTHR to guide Planned Marathon Pace / target time?

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268841#Comment_119268841

Not familiar with the Garmin HM plan but 8x800 is a tough session - well done if you got through it without too much difficulty (800m is middle distance but the way, definitely not sprint territory, and especially if you're doing eight of them). How fast were you doing them, just out of curiosity?

In regard to the LTHR it gave you - I don't think this is something you need to worry about for now. LT (lactate threshold) is a very useful thing to know as your running and training methods develop. For average mid pack runners it equates to something between 10k and 10 mile pace. From what you posted earlier, that figure it gave you looks closer to your 5k pace so take it with a grain of salt.

I wouldn't consider Garmin to be very accurate for measuring this sort of stat unless it is set up very accurately in terms of maximum and resting HR as well as the chest strap. Even then it's only an estimate, like the VO2max stats your watch gives you. I'd ignore it for now. Most plans would have you running those 800m repeats and other speed sessions at your 5k pace or a little faster so that's a safer effort level to use.

For now, I'd say it's overkill to be honest. Keep it simple!

Magellanic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269285#Comment_119269285

The pace recommended for me for the sprints was between 3:30 - 3:59 (pace per km) for the 800m sprints followed by 400m jog. As it happened I didn't end up going the full 800m on the final two rep's, stopping them half way both times. My pace for the sprint sections ranged from 3:56 - 4:06 (pace per km over 800m).

Re: LTHR, I will ignore this for now and perhaps come back to it later in the process if it makes sense to do so. Its a Polar H10 chest strap I have so hopefully this will give me more accurate HR information.

Unthought Known

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270946#Comment_119270946

If you aren't able to complete the session the paces are probably a bit fast at this stage of your training. If it was me I would drop the pace and maybe pick it back up in a few weeks as endurance improves.

Murph_D

Good point, the same thing occurred to me. At the end of a session like that you should feel like you could do one or two more. Sounds like the recommended paces (by whom?) are unrealistic. Your 5k pace will suffice - the important thing is to get through the training and get to the start line without getting injured (or demoralised).

event

I've always been of the opinion for sprint sessions that the time to do each shouldn't differ by more than 1 or 2s and the pace of your first should be the same as your last.

Otherwise you are going to fast/slow

Magellanic

Makes sense - thanks all.

I will look to go for more my 5k pace for these sessions.

@event this also makes sense, although I feel I have a bit to go to control my pace over distance to within 1-2 seconds. My splits tend to have a reasonable spread.

Adiaga 2

That’s week one done for me. Stuck to boards plan for the most part. Did 5K easy Monday, Tuesday. Just over 6.5K w/ strides on Wednesday and just over 5K easy Thursday. That might be the first time I ever ran 4 days in a row. I did the LSR this morning - just over 15.5K at 6:05 per km.

Lambay island

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119283621#Comment_119283621

Great stuff, how are you feeling after the week?

memaul

Nicely done @Adiaga 2 . Week 1 done here too. Had to convince myself to head out in the lashing rain 2 of the days. Felt great though. Got 13.8km done for my LSR at 6:21/km pace

Laineyfrecks

DCM Training: Week 2!

Before I get to Week 2, I'd like to review Week 1.

I'd ask each of you to do a self-apprasial of how Week 1 went for you.

Did you get in all the runs on your plan - if not, then why not?

Did you run the easy runs at an appropriate pace?

Hopefully you all got in the required runs majority & you are not running too fast. You can't cheat the marathon - take a half-assed approach to the training and it will bite you in the backside come the big day.

Onto Week 2, and here’s what’s instore for the week ahead:

Plan|Monday|Tuesday|Wednesday|Thursday|Friday|Saturday|Sunday

HHN1|rest|3m easy|3m easy|3m easy|rest|7m lsr|cross

Boards|rest,cross or 3m rec|3m easy|1m w/u, 3m PMP, 1m c/d|3m rec|rest,cross or 3m rec|10m lsr|2m rec

This week sees the Boards plan feature the first PMP (Planned Marathon Pace) run! This is an opportunity to run a little bit faster than your easy pace but please please try to be realistic and conservative when picking your PMP.

A rough way to calculate predicted marathon time is (Half marathon time x 2) + 20 mins, or this predictor is more reliable than the McMillan or Tinman ones.

The table below indicates roughly the marathon pace (in km or in miles) required for the various target times at 15 minute intervals:

Marathon|Pace/km|Pace/mi

3:30|5:00|8:00

3:45|5:20|8:35

4:00|5:40|9:10

4:15|6:00|9:45

4:30|6:20|10:20

4:45|6:40|10:50

5:00|7:00|11:25

5:15|7:20|12:00

5:30|7:40|12:35

5:45|8:00|13:05

6:00|8:20|13:40

The warm up and cool down can be done at your easy pace (i.e - at least 45-60 seconds per mile slower than PMP).

With the temperatures(hopefully) rising this week the effort level is going to be higher due to the heat - don't stick rigidly to a prescribed pace, everyone should be taking the paces handier to ensure that the effort remains easy.

It's also important to hydrate well throughout the day with plenty of water, and electrolytes. Now is the time to pick up some Zero tablets (or similar electrolyte product). When we sweat, we lose electrolytes, that’s why your sweat is salty. It's important to replace lost electrolytes.

Looking ahead to the longer runs at the weekend - think about how you are going to hydrate during the run. Maybe you will carry a bottle, or have a running belt that can hold a bottle, or bring €2 with you and chose a route that passes a shop. Some people chose a loop that means they will pass by their house or car a couple of times to grab a drink, or others even stash a drink somewhere on their route in advance, just do what works for you!

Best of luck to everyone for the week ahead🤗

Pinoy adventure

@Laineyfrecks as you say sweat is salty,lick your arm if needed.

Adiaga 2

Thanks @memaul and well done to you too. Only 17 more to go!

And thanks @Lambay island . Feel grand after the week. Hopefully I’m saying that on Sunday for at least some of the next seventeen weeks :-)

@Laineyfrecks not sure if you meant for the self appraisal on the thread or not but here goes..

Did you get in all the runs on your plan - if not, then why not?

All except the 2 mile recovery run. Due to family commitments I’ll have to alternate I do the long run - either Saturday or Sunday. So if it’s Sunday I may miss the recovery. Hope this won’t be a major problem (?)

Did you run the easy runs at an appropriate pace?

Did my easy runs around 5:55 per km. Will work on slowing these down. Was happy that I managed to slow down the lsr today. Normally for long runs like that I would do around 5:50.

On to week 2.

Turkish1

Hi all

Late to the party here as got one of the late entries in the middle of the week and took the plunge.

• Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

Have never ran organised race (other than parkruns). Current PB's

5km - 22:17 (April 22)

10km - 47:17 (April 22)

Half marathon - 1:51:05 (May 21, have only ran this distance twice to date)

• Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)

No walking breaks required

• How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.

Running on average about 5 times a week for the last 4/5months.

Average about 40k a week. Play GAA also but for me the running will take priority

• What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?

Realistic (I think) - sub 4 hours

Dream - sub 3:43 to beat a pal of mine :)

• How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?

As many as required. OH is also entered as first timer and both committed to giving our all as probably first and last time.

• What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up?

I have extensive injury history with my knees in particular.

• Why are you running this marathon?

Why not... one of those bucket list things really. OH is fittest in her life (c. 43:30 10k recently) and wanted to do this journey together.

Best of luck to everyone...

Laineyfrecks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119286267#Comment_119286267

Yes I did mean to to post this here, I find it useful to reflect on the previous weeks training. Well done on completing your 1st week. It would be best to try get the recovery run done as this helps after your LSR but I do understand that sometimes life gets in the way.

I do think you need to slow down for your easy runs. Based off your half marathon time you should really be running your easy runs at about 6:40 pace, I know how hard it is to slow down, I had to be told so many times before it properly sunk in! The benefits of slowing down the easy runs are proven so trust it. Try slow down this week & let us know how you get on with it!

Best of luck with week 2😊

Laineyfrecks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119286322#Comment_119286322

Hi Turkish1, you are very welcome!

Well done on getting a late entry, you are now training for a marathon😊

You have some decent times there, similar enough to my own doing my 1st marathon. Good to see the consistency with your running. Nice to have a goal target in mind(always good motivation when trying to beat someone else too) but we won't focus too much on that for now.

Have you decided which plan to follow? I think the Boards plan would be a good fit for you considering you are already running 5 days a week. Great to see you are doing this with your OH, you will both be able to share your experiences & keep each other motivated!

How bad is the knee injuries? How have they been since taking up running?

Very best of luck with your journey!

Turkish1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119286817#Comment_119286817

Knees have been fine so its more of a psychological think i recon, Couple ACL reconstructions and two other cartilage surgeries so more the thought of ramping up the distances on roads.

In relation to the long slow runs, is the reason purely fatigue related, ie more injuries if you run too 'fast' (relatively speaking)? I will definitely struggle with throttling back to the extent it appears I should for those LSR so will be one of the major challenges.

Edit: yes will do the Boards plan

Lambay island

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119286992#Comment_119286992

In terms of the slower running, I wont do justice myself on this one so I have cogged some info online below. You are right in terms of injury risk but it is a more tried and scientific approach. It may initially seem counter - intuitive but the results will be seen on races.

The time spent running at a slow pace helps your body increase the rate at which it converts oxygen to glycogen for fuel. As your body gets more efficient at creating energy, it builds endurance to run harder without fatigue. When too much of training is spent running anaerobically, runners get stuck in middle ground. If you're only running a couple of times a week, running for speed may get you more bang for your buck in terms of fitness benefits-as long as you give your body time to recover in between. When you're running four , five or six days a week in a training block, you need long, slow runs to let your body recover.

If its good enough for the elite kenyans : https://runningmagazine.ca/sections/training/watch-eliud-kipchoge-running-slow-on-his-easy-day/

Masch8933

I am doing the 80/20 plan and my week 1 didnt get off to a great start as I was actually back in Ireland with my 2 year old son (leaving the wife and 3 year old in Switzerland), due to travel I did not get to do my fartlek session on Friday and yesterday due to various circumstances didnt get my long run done, but I managed to get it in today. So will tweek this weeks sessions to get back on track.

I may have missed it but is there a Strava Group for this?

68 lost souls

Hey all, I did DCM in 2019 and it didn't go to plan. Had hoped to break 4 hours and more like 4:44 in the end. I was on target until Terenure where the wheels fell off. I did a Half Ironman that year at the ned of July and then switched more or less to the the DCM official plan from there on.

This year I got my Half Ironman out of the way last week and focus on the marathon now (one triathlon between now and race day) I was thinking about following the boards plan. While I have done triathlons for 9 years running is and always was my weak point. To answer some of the questions:

• How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.

5-15 hours depending on the week and block. Up to this point normal week would 3 bike sessions 2x1hour and a 3-5 hour , 2 run sessions and a swim session, if I can fit in a strength session than also a plus but it does vary wildly if I can get it all in or am focusing on something else.

• Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

5km - 22:50 as part of a sprint triathlon May 2019

5mile - 37:57 Tallaght 5 mile 2022

10km - 51:29 Fingal 10km 2019 - Going to aim for 48 this year and see how it goes

10 mile - FD 2017 1:26:34

1/2 marathon - 1:53 September 2019 (solo the day after the dublin half as I didnt have an entry)

marathon - Dublin 2019 4:43:43

• What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?

Realistic I thought 4 hours was achievable, I missed my longest training runs due to a cold last time and possibly had a lot to do with it. V-Dot calculator says off my 5mile I should be bale for 3:40 so I don't know, somewhere in that region. Suggestions welcome.

• How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?

I did the first week of Boards training plan already so potentially stick with that. Before I go and do the conversions has anyone already got it in Metric form?

5 days max I reckon. Week 5 I have an Olympic distance triathlon on instead of the long run. I have an entry for the full race series and will be doing those races.

• What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up?

I get it wrong again and walk the same roads I walked last time

• Why are you running this marathon?

Redemption and a challenge. I also said I wont do a full Ironman if I cant conquer a marathon so maybe it opens the door to that.

masterK

It was great to get the first week out of the way, I'd been struggling a lot with a hip injury in the preceding months but it looks like physio and spending half my life on a foam roller have really helped. I've still some pain but it's not too bad.

I got in 40k in total over 5 runs (8, 8, 7, 13, 4), I did a little extra over the boards plan as I'm away for 9 days next week and probably won't get to do any running.

I still need to relax the pace a bit but am gradually getting there, my recovery run on Sunday was the best as I did it at 6:10 pace but that might be down to having a few glasses of wine the night before so was a bit groggy (maybe I should drink wine every night? :))

68 lost souls

Quick follow up question, should the strides/hill repeats be done at the end of the session or in the middle somewhere? Next week say 5m easy w/ 5 x hill sprints is that 5 hill sprints at the end and how long should they be?

Lambay island

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288818#Comment_119288818

It's not always easy to fit everything in with life etc. Fair play for getting the long run in still. Ensure you still get your rest day in. Tweaking will happen but ensure your long runs are not too close together. If it goes beyond a couple of days sometimes we just need to let those runs go as such and not chase them midweek.

No strava group yet but that should happen soon alright.

Turkish1

Just looking into the boards plan a bit more and just hoping for a bit of clarity on a few points, sorry if I a missed them somewhere or am being too pedantic. Lets assume a 3hr 45m PMP (5:19 per k/m). Easy run would be c. 5:47 - 5:55 per k/m,

That seems fine and logical. But I don't understand then what kind of pace the Long Slow Runs should be done at, are they slower that the 'easy' pace (e.g. 6:00 - 6:10 per k/m)? And are the recovery runs after the LSR slower again?

I suppose I just don't understand the distinction between an 'easy run' and a 'long slow run' in terms of pacing.

Also, on the strides - I would (from my GAA days) have those at about 75-80% full sprint pace, is that in the right ballpark here?

The Black Oil

The bulk of the volume in both plans is based on easy miles. It's pretty standard in lots of training plans have 3 weeks of build up with LSRs getting progressively longer, then a step back week e.g. reduced volume, and less intense session stuff. Mid-July - the boards plan has 13 miles, then up to 16 for the August bank holiday, whilst easing into double digits for the first time, 10 this coming Sunday.

In these early weeks be flexible in getting used it and don't get too stuck on what your watch is saying for differentiating between easy, recovery, LSR. Do try and get a feel for your easy, physically and mentally. Your body will build up a bedrock of endurance over the months. Personally, I think of recovery as fairly 'soft' miles, without much of a pace in mind or sometimes it's time limited. In other training plans you'll see the likes of 4 easy/6 MP/4 easy/3 MP, etc in long runs. I think of the LSR as nice and controlled, pretty relaxed. I'm so used to (2016 novice) 'easy' that I run, sync it to Garmin, but I tend not to look the pace because I know I don't need to, just as I don't when I've the shoes on.

Magellanic

Here's my Week 1 Review.

Monday: Managed to get through this rest day OK :)

Tuesday: 6km @ easy pace 5.37. Felt good, however towards end I noticed my pace drop. I wasn't tired so I think its just more concentration needed to maintain a steady pace.

Wednesday: 12km incl. sprint Repeats (mentioned previously - need to reduce pace)

Thursday: 5km stride repeats

Friday: rest day

Saturday: 22km easy-ish (5.15 pace)

Sunday: 6.5km easy (5.34 pace)

Did you get in all the runs on your plan - if not, then why not?

I am finishing the garmin half marathon plan ahead of race next weekend so covered the 4 sessions from that and added 1 easy pace 4 mile to align to boards training cadence.

Did you run the easy runs at an appropriate pace?

Long run was too fast for easy pace. I am conscious of this and intended to reduce it going forward to 5.30 ish (per km).

Laineyfrecks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289403#Comment_119289403

Well done on getting the 1st week done! Hopefully the hip pain isn't too bad but always listen to your body & seek professional advice when needed.

Glad to see you slowed the pace down for your recovery run, in my opinion this can never be too slow, keep it nice & relaxed & make sure it does truly feel easy.

9 days of no running in any plan really isn't a good idea. I know it's hard to sometimes fit the runs in but it's not advisable to either bank miles before hand or to try catch up on missed miles. Is there anyway you can get some of the runs done while you are away?

Laineyfrecks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289514#Comment_119289514

The strides/hillsprints should be done at the end of your run. Start the stride by running easy, focusing on a short, quick stride, and then gradually increase your speed by lengthening your stride. Keep your torso tall and relaxed. It should feel like a controlled fast pace rather than a sprint. When you reach three quarters into the runway distance, gradually decelerate by shortening your stride until you come to a walk. If you’re running by time, the total stride should be around 30 seconds (i.e. run easy for 10 seconds, increase stride length for 15 seconds, and decelerate for 5 seconds). Walk back to the starting point to recover and catch your breath, and then repeat.

For the hillsprints you should run approx 200m up the hill then a slow jog back.