Tippmann M4 .22

Peppa Cig

Anyone running a Tippmann M4 .22LR

or seen them in a dealer recently?

Looks like a fun plinker.

Have a Ruger Precision Rimfire that I’m happy with but like the idea of semi auto full aluminium Tippmann.

Thanks

BattleCorp

I've never seen one. Are they even available over here?

Peppa Cig

I guess it would be a special order via NI these days.

Sure I spotted one at range pre Covid.

I shot one on a range in the north. They are a fun gun to shoot and I found it to be quite accurate. Haven't seen any in any dealerships down here though.

irishshooter32

I have seen these in Germany you could import one and it should be easily licensed being a .22 S/A although it will be restricted if you want the 25 round mags

Munsterlad102

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119154152#Comment_119154152

Any idea if you can own a 25 round mag but not use it on a non restricted license? Similar to how you can own a 10 round pistol magazine but not use it.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119162762#Comment_119162762

Nope, possession is enough to get you in trouble as far as I'm aware. Open to correction but I think the only way you can have a 25 round magazine is if you have a restricted licence for the firearm it fits.

The thinking is that you could easily load it and use it so I can't see how you'd be allowed to possess it if you don't have a restricted licence.

If you didn't have a firearm that the magazine fitted, you couldn't use it but then you'd be in trouble for having an unlicenced firearm (a mag is considered a firearm - yeah stupid, I know).

Cass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119162762#Comment_119162762

As Battlecorp said above, no.

The pistol mag issue was resolved with the introduction of SI391/2015, after the initial SI (21/2008 and amended SI 337/2009) but the laws surrounding rifle mags has not been amended in the same way and stays the same as it was in SI 21/2008:

(ii) single-shot, repeating or semi-automatic rim-fire firearms designed to fire rim-fire percussion ammunition and with a magazine having a capacity of not more than 10 rounds,

So the capacity cannot exceed 10 rounds for a rimfire rifle without it being a restricted license.

Peppa Cig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119165325#Comment_119165325

But you could have a 10 shot tube on a unrestricted SG once it’s plugged?

Cass

SG?

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119166615#Comment_119166615

Shotgun.

Cass

I thought so but wasn't sure.

Yes. Shotguns, once modified to hold no more than 3 are unrestricted.

kellbag91

You can get a semi auto AR clone on a non restricted license. As for the 20 round mags it's a simple as getting it plugged by the dealer. Never seen a tippman in the wild but there is a good few on the UK market.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119178934#Comment_119178934

I hope I'm not nitpicking here but while it is clear that pistols magazines can legally be plugged to hold only 5 rounds (S.I. No. 391/2015 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) (Amendment) Order 2015), we aren't 100% sure that plugging a rifle magazine to hold only 10 rounds is treated the same as there is no legislation in place that allows the plugging of rifle magazines.

While many think this is ok, we can't be 100% sure because, as I have said, it's not clearly laid down in legislation. People are assuming that, because it is allowed for pistols, it should be ok to do it in rifles. It's a grey area that hasn't been tested in court as far as I'm aware.

Cass

My post, #8 above, shows that it is clearly defined in legislation and not a grey area at all.

No plugging of rifle magazines. They have an allowable capacity and that is it.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181181#Comment_119181181

Can I argue the point with you slightly, very slightly. The law doesn't say no plugging of rifle magazines, well at least not as blunt as you are saying it. I'm arguing that there may be a little grey, just a smidgeon. I'm not saying there is, and I wouldn't like to be the test case but hear me out.

I know there is no legislation in place that specifically allows the blocking of a rimfire rifle magazine as with a pistol magazine but if you permanently block a rimfire rifle magazine so that it can't take more than 10 rounds, e.g. if it was a steel magazine and you irreversibly welded steel in it so as to permanently make it a 10 round magazine, in essence you have a magazine that only has a 10 round capacity. Is that not grounds for at least arguing that you are in compliance with the law as the rimfire rifle magazine has a maximum permanent capacity of 10 rounds.

And just for clarity, don't do what I have suggest above as it may be illegal to do so. This is just for the purposes of an academic discussion.

Cass

I've written a reply twice and deleted it due to incoherent ramblings so I'll keep it short and succinct.

I still don't think there is a grey area as with pistols as I don't consider blocked/plugged mags a grey area so long as its done. My comment above about no plugging of magazines is not my opinion, but a blunt (as you rightly say) comment on the lack of clarification of the law. It makes no mention of plugging as with pistol mags, only that the capacity not exceed ten.

You could argue the lack of such clarification allows for it, and I wouldn't argue the point with you as its been done and must be legal. Look at lever action rifles with a tube capacity of more than 10. You cannot do anyting but block it (regardless of the manner of such blocking) and as people are licensed this must be acceptable.

To be fair this is not one of those pieces of law that requires more clarification or another SI. Use ten round (or fewer) mags or make sure any mag with a larger capacity is blocked to only a max of ten and you're golden.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181520#Comment_119181520

Permanently welding a steel make so as to be a 10round mag is essentially making a legal 10 round mag. However the issue is that you'd be breaking the law as soon as you possessed it. Despite being it straight away to get welded. I think it's risky personally. And understand you're not recommending it.

As for plugging temporarily. It's very easy to point out that a 25 round mag, plugged to 10 rounds. Still has a max capacity of 25 rounds and would be illegal without a clause specification permitting plugging. A huge risk. Don't think you were nitpicking to point that out.

kellbag91

Well I can only relate to my personal experience. When applying I spoke with my local Garda over firearms certs. I was never asked about the magazine capacity. When I picked up the rifle the dealer inserted a 3D printed plug into the mag. Recently I had the local firearms officers come to the house to check that my pistol mags were capped. The 20 round (capped ) rifle mag was never checked or inspected. But this could vary from district to district.

Cass

Kellbag91 - When applying I spoke with my local Garda over firearms certs. I was never asked about the magazine capacity.

You wouldn't be, normally.

The law is such that the onus of knowing is on you, not your FO. Rimfire rifles got the short end of the stick as they have a mag limit regardless of it being semi auto or bolt action. Anything over 10 rounds is restricted, or rather requires a restricted license. This is NOT the case with bolt action rifles in that the same restriction was not put on them.

I know of two, I believe I said previously either here or on another thread, court cases with one resulting in the chap loosing his rifle and othe firearms (as well as being refused recent applications) because they had a 25 round mag on an unrestircted license even though it could only take 10. The decision was its capable of holding more (regardless of the plugging/blocking).

Gardaí do not know the laws, even those that deal with firearms. Well to be more specific they don't know them all, but the point is they don't have to because its you that will be held to account if its checked.

Do as you think is right and please because no one here is responsible for what people do (we're not the internet police), but the above is merely a caveat with regard to the possible consequences.

Shot Bru

Any update on the availability of the M4 in Republic? or import? anyone go that route? was looking at the M4 vs Walther vs S&W M&P 15, but Tippmann seems to be best. Thanks

Peppa Cig

Kriss DMK 22 available off shelf in north.

After that would be a UK import for Tippman I’d say.