Sub 2500 Gaming PC

DiceManFan

I’m looking for suggestions on a new gaming pc. I built my current PC on recommendations from here back in 2013 and it has been a proper workhorse. One of the two GPUs in SLI died, so I replaced it with a RTX 2080 2060 a few years back and finally overclocked the CPU, getting a few more years out of the machine. It’s aging at this stage, so I am going back to the well.

I mainly play modable single player games: Skyrim, Paradox titles. I’d like it to handle them and keep up with new titles for a number of years.

I’m pretty out of touch on the state of components at the moment, except for browsing this weekend. A good case and motherboard would be the priority, as it’s the assembly that makes me nervous! Would prefer air cooling too.

 

1. What is your budget? Up to €2.5k.

2. What will be the main purpose of the computer? Gaming

3. Do you need a copy of Windows? No

4. Can you use any parts from an old computer? No

5. Do you need a monitor? No

6. Do you need any peripherals? No

7. Are you willing to try overclocking? Yes—Total novice but it extended my current PC a lot

8. How can you pay? [Bank Transfer/Credit Card/Laser] EFT/Debit

9. When are you purchasing? No great rush, but likely the next few weeks, short of it being worth waiting on something

List of what I'm toying with at the moment, feel free to rubbish it. Appreciate the input.

PCPartPicker Part List: https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/cPr6Bj

CPU: Intel Core i5-12600K 3.7 GHz 10-Core Processor (€294.90 @ Alza)

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 RGB Black Edition 57.3 CFM CPU Cooler (€45.01 @ Amazon Deutschland)

Motherboard: Gigabyte B660 DS3H AX DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard (€152.90 @ Computeruniverse)

Memory: Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory (€133.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)

Storage: Western Digital Blue SN550 2 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (€185.90 @ Alza)

Video Card: Palit GeForce RTX 3080 10GB 10 GB GameRock Video Card (€979.88 @ Mindfactory)

Case: be quiet! Pure Base 500DX ATX Mid Tower Case (€95.00 @ Alza)

Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS GX 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€96.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)

Total: €1984.48

K.O.Kiki

You can't overclock the CPU on a B660 motherboard, and that cooler wouldn't be sufficient for it either.

Rest looks fine though.

PCPartPicker Part List: https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/8GYg3y

CPU: Intel Core i5-12600K 3.7 GHz 10-Core Processor (€299.31 @ Amazon Deutschland)

CPU Cooler: Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler (€56.00) @ Amazon Deutschland

Motherboard: MSI PRO Z690-A WIFI DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard (€216.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)

Memory: Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory (€133.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)

Storage: Western Digital Blue SN550 2 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (€192.33 @ Computeruniverse)

Video Card: Palit GeForce RTX 3080 10GB 10 GB GameRock Video Card (€1055.88 @ Computeruniverse)

Case: be quiet! Pure Base 500DX ATX Mid Tower Case (€107.77 @ Amazon Deutschland)

Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS GX 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€96.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)

Total: €2159.08

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-05-30 16:01 CEST+0200

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Alternatively, you can go for AMD's 5800X3D which is the best gaming CPU right now.

https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/pgcTmr

DiceManFan

Thanks--especially the motherboard, hadn't thought to look for that.

Hadn't spotted the 5800X3D. Way better performance, but runs hot and can't be overclocked? But the 5700X can be, and uses less power? I had been comparing the i5-12600k and 5700X, and reckoned the 12600k was the favoured pick. Need to continue looking at this 🤔

Of course my next question was going to be if I were to spend a little more, what should it go on--so CPU?

K.O.Kiki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119135780#Comment_119135780

TechPowerUp is my first stop for hardware reviews: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-5800x3d/

Its main draw over all other processors is the tripling of L3 Cache (32MB -> 96MB) which should keep it relevant for a bit longer. That said, it doesn't always offer a performance advantage at this time.

However, it always uses less power than 12600K.

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If you want to spend more money, the only sensible option is on more/better fans IMHO

Getting more performance than a 3080 is silly, you'd be better off upgrading in the next 1-2 generations; and CPU performance doesn't matter as much as GPU.

DiceManFan

Thanks, Kiki. Decided to go with the 5800X3D. It looks a monster--maybe a little pricey compared to others, but hoping to luck out with the larger cache.

May pick up some case fans over the next few weeks, but apparently the default configuration with the case is about as efficient as you get. Diminishing returns.

Looking forward to putting this together--so much more aesthetic features to components now compared to 10 years ago 😁

Jon Doe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119144172#Comment_119144172

Just throwing in my two cents: both Skyrim and Paradox titles don't demand much on the GPU side of the matter but I think that both Vortex and Paradox games require a beefier CPU, so an 8c core such as the 5700X or 5800X3D may suit your needs better then the 12600X which is a 6 core.

Also, as far as I know, no game requires 32GB to run - yet. So you may want 16GB to save 60€ on the memory.

If you're aiming for a 2.5k as your limit, please be sure to get an X570 board from a good brand.

DiceManFan

Thanks, Jon. Looking to overdo the requirements a bit on the specs side. Texture mods / ENB can probably hog resources. I'll also be playing Warhammer 3 TW. A decent CPU/GPU and too much RAM should hopefully let me play whatever for a few years without worrying. I imagine that if I went for 16gb RAM I'd be adding another stick in a couple of years anyway.

Could you expand a little on the benefits of a X570 board? I doubt I'll ever be exceeding 3 SSDs, 1 graphics card. More USB ports are great obviously but not essential. Currently looking to use the 'MSI MPG B550 GAMING EDGE WIFI ATX AM4'. Wifi and ethernet speed seem to be good. Would I be lacking something down the road?

K.O.Kiki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119145241#Comment_119145241

You don't need X570 for a gaming PC, IMHO.

Only reason to use that chipset is if you need lots of extra PCIe 4.0 lanes for capture devices/superfast SSDs and/or have many USB3.2 (10Gbps) devices - i.e. workstations. Even then, B550 still supports plenty:

In addition, B550 motherboards in general are known to be more stable with fast RAM & have better-built VRMs than budget X570 boards.

Jon Doe

Strictly speaking, no you don't need an x570 for gaming. But if we're to be precise you don't need the chip set at all for gaming... :) Memory, Graphics and SSD: it all connects directly to the CPU these days. The problem is everything else. In my opinion the x570 is worth the expense on account of the PCIe 4.0 x4 link alone. That allows for SSD Raid 0 without having the 2nd SSD bottleneck the system. To hell with overclocking, memory above the manufacturer's recommendation and anything that gets the system to deliver 55fps instead of 50 fps. Once your system starts to choke down to 20fps that very same overclocking will deliver 22fps if you're lucky. Assuming the whole system is still alive after a few years of working overclocked - read overheated, over-voltaged, over-what-ever-it-took to get it to run a stable overclock.

K.O.Kiki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148423#Comment_119148423

Had an X570 system, now on B550. No difference in daily operations tbh & I run with 4x SSDs of various speeds.

Wouldn't ever recommend anyone use Raid0 at home - absolutely no point with SSDs being fast enough as-is & you have ZERO parity, redundancy or fault tolerance. So 1 disk fails, you lose both disks & everything that was on them.

Much safer to have redundant backups (e.g. online + external drive). Raid 1 if you can afford to double your main drive.

The only RAID level that X570 has over B550 is RAID 5 which requires 3+ drives - again, overkill for a gaming system.

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A system this powerful won't be "chugging at 20fps" for years even with high/ultra settings. It's 2-3x as powerful as a PS5. And it's always possible to turn settings down if needed.

And you're completely wrong about long-term overclocking - not only are there users STILL using 9yo 2500K/2700K with stupid overclocks, but famed overclocker der8auer already put Ryzen CPUs through long-term testing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAww0c2m-ks

Jon Doe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148514#Comment_119148514

Wouldn't ever recommend anyone use Raid0 at home

People work at home these days. Raid0 - or any other Raid for that matter - isn't for those who want it: it's for those who need it. Case in point video processing. If you need to read, process and write large chunks of data you will feel the difference. So, you really should account for that possibility in the future.

have ZERO parity, redundancy or fault tolerance. So

As for reliability that's true of every single non-redundant component in your system. Including your mouse & keyboard. Raid0 is all about performance. You also want reliability, get a pair of reliable SSDs and automate your backup process. Raid1 is good only against manufacturing flaws and we're past the stage of mechanical drives with rotating spindles. So, again: get a pair of reliable SSDs and automate your backup process.

The only RAID level that X570 has over B550 is RAID 5 which requires 3+ drives - again, overkill for a gaming system.

In terms of capability, yes. In terms of performance, no (due to the PCIe 4.0 x4 link).

A system this powerful won't be "chugging at 20fps" for years even with high/ultra settings. It's 2-3x as powerful as a PS5.

:) You should never, ever underestimate the "CD Projeckt Red"s or the RSI's of the world... and no... 640KB will not be enough for years to come... xD

And you're completely wrong about long-term overclocking

Am i? One guy managed to get one CPU to overclock for years on end. Therefore, everyone can get their CPU to overclock for years on end. Are you sure that's how it works? Math and industrial processes would beg to differ. How many CPUs failed prematurely? Cases that we never heard about but nevertheless do exist? Why doesn't the manufacturer recommend this overclocking for all such CPUs? It would mean more performance, after all...

At the end of the day, only the OPs needs matter. From my side all I'll say is that you should never ever buy the latest and greatest - not when that implies paying the money-to-burn tax that comes with the performance crown. At the same time you should always be on the lookout for the low hanging fruit. And 20€ to upgrade your mobo/chip set sounds very low hanging fruit - it is the component to which everything connects...

On the other hand paying an extra 50-100€ premium for a mobo that has ultra lighting fast Wifi5 built in, sounds ridiculous to me. I can get a USB 2.0 dongle for 20€ and hook it up right next to the keyboard & mouse USB ports... "But it's not as fast" if you are that interested in speed why are you fumbling around with Wifi? Get yourself a short Ethernet cable, spend 100€ on a cheap IKEA desk and set it up next to the router. You can't get a shorter ping than that...

DiceManFan

Interesting discussion. While I know I'm wandering into the price bracket where all of these things become options, I wouldn't have the appetite or knowledge to deal with RAID configuration.

I wasn't seeing too many X570 boards with similar spec for approx the same price either. Closer to double. Without a clear gain there, I'd be happier to stick with a more straightforward system as its only really for gaming--and save the few hundred difference for when a component breaks 😅

Wifi actually would be nice. The PC can tend to move around. Network adapter cards (wands) can take knocks. While ethernet is better, it isn't always practical.

While I may be overpaying in the short term on a particular component, it'll probably keep me from looking for the latest and greatest again in 3 or 4 years. My current PC is 9 years old now. That's my dodgy rationale.

Jon Doe

Wifi actually would be nice. The PC can tend to move around. Network adapter cards (wands) can take knocks. While ethernet is better, it isn't always practical.

Your mobo already has an ethernet port built in. You just need the cable. This

geizhals.eu/?cat=nwpcie&xf=14065_80211-Adapter%7E14066_USB-Stick%7E14067_USB-A+2.0

will not take a knock... too short :P As for the X570 the cheapest I can find right now is 138... not long ago I could find them at 90€... I guess the new 3D Ryzen is causing a dent in the x570 mobo market... :)

DiceManFan

Fair point on the wifi adapter! But I've probably binned a couple of them over the years as I forgotten what they were for and obviously weren't doing the job well enough 😆 If its onboard and happens to work well, I'll be happy.

I've been looking at a motherboard tier list here, hoping not to go too far wrong: https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/syu5tp/all_300_motherboard_feature_set_and_general_use/

Ethernet would be best but in two cases I can't cover the distance with a cable. Desk is far removed from the modem and I don't want to start drilling holes. Plugin extenders with ethernet ports would be used.

Can I ask where do you shop? I was hoping to avoid amazon or at least spread the purchase but have been using them for easiest delivery.

Jon Doe

😆 If its onboard and happens to work well, I'll be happy.

Sure, if I could afford a 2500€ budget for a new machine I'd agree with you. As is, I have to scrounge the bottom of the barrel for a 5€ Wifi adapter!... xD Much better than paying a 30-50€ bonus for integrated Wifi... :p

motherboard tier list here, hoping not to go too far wrong

The PCI Gen in mobos is only relevant if you're planning on making use of the expansion ports beyond the 1st NVMe port and 1st PCIe x16. From what I can tell the person that wrote that doc doesn't understand that there are no B550 mobos that support PCIe Gen 4. There are B550 mobos which support CPUs that support PCIe Gen 4. So take that info with a pinch of salt. From what you tell me you'd be happy with the basic 4: CPU+GPU+Memory+Storage. If that's the case go with the B550, no bells, no whistles. Buy a quality board to minimize head aches, no thrills (no wifi) to cut down on costs (may not be relevant with your budget) and you're good to go.

About the remaining techs mentioned: USBc, 2.5 Gb/s LAN and VRMs. USBc aifak is only relevant if you have a device that needs USBc - not a phone. Besides, I have a feeling that USBa will be more long lived than RS-232, Microsoft and the European Union. So, just make sure you have USBa ports. USBc's are just a nice to have.

2.5Gb/s are only relevant if you have multiple people viewing blue ray streams simultaneously. We're talking +-300MB/s downloads here... For reference, my first hard drive was a 345 MB Maxtor... :P 1Gb/s yields +-125MB/s. That's enough to fill up your 64GB cell phone in just under 9 minutes. If that's enough for you, your should also consider 2.5Gb/s just a nice to have.

The VRMs are only relevant for A) Intel CPUs and B) overclockers. Intel CPUs because the "Intel7" process causes these things to be power hogs - never a good thing in electronics. And overclockers because to accomplish your goal you need to dump more power into your CPU which causes electrical stress... :/ As far as I'm concerned an overclocker is just someone with too much free time in their hands. Better put that time to better use: find a job or a girl - your choice. As long as the VRMs are of good quality, pretty much anything will do. Hence, buy a quality board to minimize head aches.

I can't cover the distance with a cable.

That's a real shame. Ethernet is the gamer's best friend even if the gamer doesn't know it - it offers high bandwidth, low latency and if the cable is any good, 0 interference.

Can I ask where do you shop? I was hoping to avoid amazon or at least spread the purchase but have been using them for easiest delivery.

Anywhere but Amazon. Goodness gracious that men is rich enough! Lately I've been using geizhals.eu but my practice is to search for "europe price compare" every 2 or 3 months and see what comes up. That's how I found Geizhals. My 2019 machine came from all over: the Vega came from NeweggUS, the CPU from Germany, the LPX memory - I think was shipped from Taiwan - and the Aorus X470 from France. I already had an 850 Pro that I bought for work. The MG07 came from Japan - a colleague of mine forwarded me a store that was vacating stock. The screen came from Amazon UK (I know...) And the chair from the UK - Dynamic's web site.

DiceManFan

From what you tell me you'd be happy with the basic 4: CPU+GPU+Memory+Storage. If that's the case go with the B550, no bells, no whistles. Buy a quality board to minimize head aches, no thrills (no wifi) to cut down on costs (may not be relevant with your budget) and you're good to go.

Reasonable advice. Looking at the ASRock Pro4 at €100, but I still wouldn't have much faith in dongles (from past experience). ~€50 extra for onboard wifi & bluetooth seems OK to me.

Where you should be criticising me is the RGB settings on the RAM. That's pure vanity to go along with the pretty cases available these days!

Jon Doe

Reasonable advice. Looking at the ASRock Pro4 at €100, but I still wouldn't have much faith in dongles (from past experience). ~€50 extra for onboard wifi & bluetooth seems OK to me.

If this is the one

www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/B550 Pro4/index.asp#Specification

I don't think it has integrated wifi/bt :/

Where you should be criticising me is the RGB settings on the RAM. That's pure vanity to go along with the pretty cases available these days!

O

M

G

Consider yourself admonished. My 400C has a window b/c there was no other option. Out of spite I turned the window side of the box to the wall. You only need bling on your box if what's on your screen isn't entertaining enough.

PS: also, I just noticed the 2x16GB. I don't think games need that much memory. Unless you're already hedging your bets / future needs.