The grant needs to go!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119976490#Comment_119976490

Me: Can't fecking afford one, with any performace, even with a well paying job. Even 2nd hand market is fecked with shortages and Brexit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120003453#Comment_120003453

Electrics are getting a lot more expensive, my id3 tour 5 77 Kwh is no longer available and the 58 Kwh is the only one now offered with a lot less kit and costs around the same as what I paid for the much higher spec tour 5.

Kia, Nissan, Hyundai cars hitting 60 K Euro's now, not looking good, new cars in general getting too expensive. Don't think I'll be buying new again in 2024 and will probably just do the sensible thing and keep the id3. Chip shortage and especially the energy crunch, I'm not paying more as a result of the high cost of Gas because of stupid political decisions, so I'd rather just not buy any new car.

What's worrying is that if the cost of Gas comes down and if the cars become a lot cheaper again there could be some massive depreciation on these over inflated car prices.

The only EV I can see selling in large numbers in the MG4 EV, 28K for what 50 Kwh ? this is a good step in the right direction and I think we'll see a lot more Chinese electric cars being sold here in the future if those prices can be sustained and European/Korean car prices stay high, if there's a flood of cheap Chinese cars into Europe that could spell disaster for the European car industry though.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120013712#Comment_120013712

Inflation.

Prices are not likely to come down. We're in a supply constrained market and that is not likely to change in the next 6-18 months

liamog

We're at around 12% inflation for the last 2 years, it's not a surprise we're seeing price rises in high demand goods. We can only hope that wages keep up.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120013746#Comment_120013746

I don't know if many companies are raising wages ?

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120014005#Comment_120014005

Most MNC will be giving good annual wage increases this year. The strength of the dollar against the euro means that they can give pay increases without impacting the bottom line.

Even US MNC companies with layoffs this year will give increases - that's the madness of the FDI market.

A former colleague of mine who now does compensation and benefits at a US owned Pharma MNC with a base here, has told me that they are looking at company wide increases this year following a bell curve and top performers could be in the 10-15+% increase depending on the comp ratio of the individual employee. These are analyst jobs so not badly remunerated as it is.

There's a large crossover between the folks working in the above job type, and those who buy EVs.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120014129#Comment_120014129

lol the MNC I worked for were very tight with the salary increases and less with the bonus, jokers. Wouldn't go back working for a MNC ever again, no matter how much they paid. I get way more bonus now that I ever would have there.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120014129#Comment_120014129

No wonder these well paid workers are looking to replace the capped €5k grant with an uncapped tax credit. And that closely aligns with the oft expressed view that EV owners predominantly buy such cars because of their concern for the environment.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120016497#Comment_120016497

Electric cars are getting very expensive and I don't think the taxpayer should be subsidising the car industry any more, if they can't make electric cars cheap enough that sell then so be it.

I would say that the majority of EV owners, myself included bought their EV because they're usually better to drive and being able to preheat and precool is a really nice feature to have + the running costs are a fraction to that of Petrol or Diesel cars which is the main reason People are switching and yes I do like the fact there's no pollutants, I don't care about Co2, however, Diesels today have got exceptionally cleaner than those I would have driven in the past, especially those with AD Blue, if People worry about Co2 then plant some trees and hedges. The Oil isn't running out either as it's been discovered some time ago that a lot of wells around the globe are actually refilling.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120016497#Comment_120016497

I'm in favor of removing the grant altogether , no grant, no tax credit. We don't need to subsidize purchases in a supply constrained market. It's bad value for money

MightyMunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120016833#Comment_120016833

Even if the whole island was covered in mature trees it wouldn't offset our carbon emissions. The only way to reduce carbon is to stop burning stuff and breed less ruminants

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119974850#Comment_119974850

No, the effects are not the same as I tried to explain. Grants are harmful to the market. Tax exemptions less so.

Grants - increase in corruption, price increase (or not a desired full price decrease), high admin, market distortion

Tax examption - no corruption, price decrease, low admin, lower market distortion

Also, tax exemption along with increased taxation is a very good, clear policy combo making it very clear to the consumer what is the desired and what is the undesired commodity.

Note: minor in Economics here...FYI, not bragging about it.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038066#Comment_120038066

What does a minor translate to in the Irish education system? B Com?

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038066#Comment_120038066

I would dispute all of those points with respect to the current SEAI administrated EV grant. Both mechanisms distort the market, they both have an administration overhead and I don't see how corruption is involved at all. This is the real world not a textbook definition

Whether they are harmful to a market depends on the intent of the government applying them. They are simply tools to manipulate a market in a particular direction.

...Ghost...

Grant or credit, its all the same. Bob the builder and Jack the lad know the customer is getting 5k off, courtesy of the government, so they both increase their prices to absorb the grant or credit.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120048886#Comment_120048886

A credit can be given back over time. Not like the lump sum seai gave me for my solar installation.

Customer is less likely to accept front loaded costs when they're out of pocket for a considerable amount of time

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120049031#Comment_120049031

Whatever the method, be it grant, or tax credits, there is still front loading. For solar, a lot of people will pay the upfront cost just as easily in both cases when finance is used....as often it is.

redlough

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120017274#Comment_120017274

The grant, like all SEAI grants, are now just profit for manufacturers/dealers. It is no longer reducing the price of the car

Also inflation is driving up the price but the manufacturers are using inflation as an excuse to also pump up the price of cars.

To be honest anyone would be f**king crazy to buy a new electric car at the moment. They would be better to hold onto their money and wait for the inevitable price crash, if people are not buying cars you will see exactly how much inflation is affecting the price.

I am a huge fan of electric cars but you are paying far too much for the car and it will take you a hell of a long time and miles to make the saving back on fuel, of course that is also based on home charging as you will never make it back if you are using network.

In terms of the environment impact, well more CO2 is created with electric cars than combustion, yes over life of car the electric is better but if you are buying a new car and expect to max do 100k miles in it and then ship it on after 5-6 year you have created less CO2 by buying a combustion engine car, so pick the fuel that is best for you then.

It's a huge step backwards I know but filling the pockets of car manufacturers is in nobody interest

joe1303l

The grant is skewing the market but for however long it’s still available, it makes new EV’s better value than most used EV’s currently for sale. Certainly the case for most of them that are less than 2 years old. All cars have had huge price increases not just EV’s. If you can mostly charge an EV at home on night rate, they are incredibly cheap to run. Obviously they’re not for everyone. If you to munch motorway miles without stopping, you won’t beat a diesel for that. The big unknown cost is the future depreciation of whatever you buy unless you’re on banger economics. Almost all cars are holding their value well recently but this won’t last. EV’s could take a huge hit if battery tech improves massively. Equally ICE cars will suffer if fuel prices and servicing costs keep increasing.

AndrewJRenko

Boucher Hayes explores the benefits of switching EV grants to fund school transport

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22183444/

MightyMunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120053457#Comment_120053457

Need both, need to be making all the changes, active travel, public transport, EVs, heat pumps, home retrofits etc.. it shouldn't be an either or...

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120053917#Comment_120053917

For every euro available for investment, it literally is an either/ or choice.

https://electrek.co/2022/05/17/norway-rolls-back-ev-incentives-while-boosting-walking-and-cycling/

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120034704#Comment_120034704

Fewer people might also help, time for the Irish version of the China child policy, limit of two perhaps?

JohnC.

China's heading for big trouble because of that policy, so perhaps not go there.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120054683#Comment_120054683

Norway is rolling them back because its largely finished transitioning away from ICE vehicle sales. I don't expect Irish incentives to still be in place when we're achieving over 80% of new sales as EV as they currently are in Norway.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120055525#Comment_120055525

I think Ireland has a lot bigger problems than ensuring EV drivers are excessively pampered. I've no idea why it was deemed necessary that a cohort of private car owners should be entitled to use public bus lanes, have free parking as well as a myriad of other benefits. The rumour must be true that Norway is an idyllic country to live

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120055708#Comment_120055708

Norway decided that reducing local emissions and improving air quality in its towns and cities was an important policy objective and that one of the methods to achieve this was to reduce the use of fuel based private transportation.

Personally I'm a fan of improved air quality in places where people live.

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120054718#Comment_120054718

Nothing adds to emissions like kids, so instead of shooting cattle and demonising people who can't afford to buy overpriced (due to subsidies) perhaps we should encourage people to use contraceptives

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120055836#Comment_120055836

Especially if you're heavily incentiviaed to drive a new EV. If only Norway could introduce a policy to get rid of the pesky busses from the bus lane.. then life could be perfect

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120055891#Comment_120055891

There isn't any talk of EV bus lane usage in Ireland, maybe you should pick something more relevant to be outraged at.