The grant needs to go!

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120056155#Comment_120056155

Sorry but have people not said we should look to Norway for inspiration? Not sure where you are getting 'enraged' from. Disagreeing with something yes

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120056740#Comment_120056740

You've circled back to it on your own a couple of times when nobody has proposed it for here, you seem to have a big problem with usage of Norwegian bus lanes.

The main area of advocacy I see in terms of copying Norway these days is the punitive measures on new ICE sales. If we increased VRT by on new ICE vehicle sales to Norwegian levels we'd probably see the same large shift in market share.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120056824#Comment_120056824

Seriously how many times have I raised it? And yes I do disagree with it.

I would have no issue with disincentivising ICEs further when supply issues have been resolved. A bit premature at this stage IMO.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057141#Comment_120057141

The use of Norwegian bus lanes was not a factor in my purchasing decision. I suspect whether the Norwegian government choose to keep that measure will have zero effect on sales in the Irish market.

In the mean time why do you think its too early to start discouraging new ICE sales? If a country like Norway can fulfill 80% of new vehicle demand with EVs then we probably could too. There are plenty of existing ICE vehicles already here so for everyone whos usage can't be met there are options within the 2nd hand market.

Every new ICE vehicle sold today is a 15/20 year old problem tomorrow. We may not be ready for 100% of the fleet to switch to EV, but I do think we're ready to stop making the problem worse.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120055852#Comment_120055852

You first.

My kids will be net positive contributors to society. Who do you think will be paying your pension? Maybe there is something in what you said, but that's for a different thread.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057639#Comment_120057639

Not everyone needs or wants an oversized SUV or luxury saloon. At present that's about all one can buy in EV form, even if one could get their hands on them.

As a matter of interest would you advocate that businesses should no longer be entitled to claim capital allowances on ICEs or claim VAT on diesel in order to coercise them to accelerate their transition to EVs? Or is it only private motorists that should be crucified further for buying new ICEs?

I want Volvo to give me a bloody EV V90, that is all

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058109#Comment_120058109

I'm sorry I don't weep for the incredibly small section of the population who purchase brand new cars who may be inconvenienced by the policy. If there isn't a brand new car available for them on the market today, perhaps they can be made aware of the 2nd hand market.

Oh and you may want to do a bit more research on the EVs available on the market, there's quite a lot of choice out there in the family car segment. They may not be as sexy as the models people want to talk about on internet forums but they still get the job done.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058109#Comment_120058109

Two of the last 3 EVs I bought cost me €2500 and €775. Neither were SUV or luxury saloon.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058307#Comment_120058307

Thats obvious. Luckily you're not making the decisions on these matters. By the way you never answered my question on whether, in your opinion, businesses should immediaty be hit with punative measures to fly the kite for accelerated EV transition.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058330#Comment_120058330

How much did your Tesla S's cost you? Haven't you put a deposit on a Model Y?

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058376#Comment_120058376

My last Tesla cost me £21k (€24k at the time), sold it 2 years later for just under €36k

Mad depreciation on them electric cars. Only rich people can afford to own them. Would hate to do the sums but I reckon my last 10 years of owning cars cost me nothing, not a cent. Including tax, maintenance, fuel, insurance, tyres, the lot.

And yes I have a €250 deposit on a Model Y. This is fully refundable at any time. Not sure what any of your points are if I'm honest.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058371#Comment_120058371

I'd settle with what I proposed, punitive VRT rates that increase the costs of purchasing new ICE vehicles that will still be polluting our neighbourhoods in 2040.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058424#Comment_120058424

Bring on 2046, when we will only have the odd classic ICE car around. Walking the dog this evening just around my estate and some muppets in a parked diesel (!!!) MINI had the engine running for whatever they were doing inside of that car sharing the cancerous fumes and tractor surround sound with all of us out there. Sir Alec would spin in his grave if he could see these retards.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058419#Comment_120058419

Just that you didn't mention your luxury saloons and impending SUV in previous message. Lovely cars one n all. Best of luck with MY

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058424#Comment_120058424

OK so you don't want any disincentives on businesses. Let them continue to pollute when there are viable EV alternatives.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058444#Comment_120058444

I don't see why you felt you had to make that comment. It was out of scope to the discussion point being made. Yes I have bought cheap and expensive cars in the past. Both ICE and BEV. My favourite ICE cars I owned in the past were my V8 BMWs and Porsches and of course my straight six Boxster.

Your point about the only BEVs out there for sale being oversized SUVs and luxury saloons was just plain false. And you know it. MG4 is quite exciting at about €28k on the road. Reminds me of 7 years ago when I decided to buy my first EV, the Ioniq 28kWh

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058446#Comment_120058446

Do companies not pay VRT when purchasing a vehicle? If you increase the costs of one option over the other you'll end up changing the budget calculations behind that purchase.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058452#Comment_120058452

I've commented on both the availability and suitability of 60km range EVs before so I'm not going down that rabbit hole again

Agree the MG4 is an exciting prospect. Not too many of them around just yet but certainly one for the future. Thats where I'm coming from and I'm hoping for a lot more competition in that bracket in the near future. Then surely it will be time to commence countdown on ICEs

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058453#Comment_120058453

I'm not fully versed on taxation of commercial vehicles but my uderstanding is that commercial N1 vehicles have VRT capped at 13.5% and are not liable for Nox levy. Coupled with being able to claim VAT on diesel this represents a significant saving and a significant disincentive to moving away from diesel where suitable EV options are available. If I am wrong about this, then I will stand corrected

No wonder Ford Rangers and their ilk have become so popular on the roads. My neighbour has a farm, or more accurately benefits from his father being a farmer and doing all the actual work, and bought a new fully kitted out Ford Ranger Wildtrack which he classified as commercial but is essentially used to drop the kids to school and activities and go on holidays. He also has a brand new Audi EV because he couldnt bear the idea of missing out on €5k free money. The laughable thing is that he mainly drives the Ranger as he prefers the high driving position and considers is cheaper to run as fuel costs are set off against farm income. He not the only person I know who does this, a couple of self employed lads I know also bought a ranger/Hilux to avail of same loophole. Point being is that if Govt intends to increase punative ICE measures these measures should also apply to commercial vehicles if they are actually serious about accelerating the EV transition. Just my view of course.

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058307#Comment_120058307

You might elaborate on the availability of EV’s as family cars. I don’t think there is any EV currently available with 7 proper seats that can travel more than 200km. I’m excluding the Merc EQV and Tesla Model X due to their €100K+ price tags.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120059345#Comment_120059345

As I'm talking about a mechanism to increase VRT on new ICE car purchases the same finance bill that creates the increase could also be applied to the purchase.

Your argument is it wouldn't be effective to increase VRT because VRT is currently lower on some purchases.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120059465#Comment_120059465

The family car class the C and D segment vehicles which carry 5 passengers, where there is lots of choice. I'd be interested to see stats on 7 seater vehicles, what are you currently driving?

MightyMunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120059465#Comment_120059465

Around 5% of families with 4 or more kids (based on 2011 census), I'd say cars available for 95% of families as fairly comprehensive coverage.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120059465#Comment_120059465

how many families need a 7 seater? very few is the answer.

joe1303l

It’s not exclusively a need per say but a lot of family cars in Ireland are 7 seaters by choice. For some it’s to have the ability to fit 3 car seats, bring grandparents, your kids friends to football matches, birthday parties etc. It’s probably more a nice to have rather than an outright need. It ultimately means less cars on the road for certain journeys which has to be a positive.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120060628#Comment_120060628

When you say a lot do you mean 20% of cars, 50%? Looking at Hyundai sales for last year, less than 5% of their sales were 7 seater Santa Fe's. 80% of those sales were PHEVs. 7 seaters are such a small part of our market that it's no surprise manufacturers are focusing on the bulk segments first.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120060337#Comment_120060337

It ses to be getting very complicated. I was just suggesting that currently business buyers of diesel commercial classed vehicles are heavily subsidised vis a vis private buyers. I was suggesting that if Govt policy was being changed the current level of this gap, including ability to claim back VAT on purchase and diesel be removed, in order to make diesels less attractive for business owners. As I said only a suggestion

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120061022#Comment_120061022

Not sure how increasing a tax rate on vehicle purchases based on drivetrain is all that complicated. At the end of the day it's simply a percentage that's applied at the time of purchase.

MightyMunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120061022#Comment_120061022

Mileage rates similarly always paid more the bigger the engine (generally more polluting). Think there was some change recently but I'm sure it still pays more to bigger polluters....