The grant needs to go!

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120060902#Comment_120060902

I don’t have % stats but Hyundai wouldn’t be a great example as the only 7 seater they offer is the Santa Fe. Ford would sell a lot more 7 seaters like S-Max and Galaxy within their range. Equally a lot of these are imported rather than bought new as they cost a lot more than the focus they’re based on. Anyway the point I was trying to make is folks that want a 7 seater can’t get an EV either new or used which is a pity.

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120061524#Comment_120061524

Yes, biggest engine size still gets the highest rate but it has improved for EV’s since September. EV’s now get the middle rate. Prior to September, they got the lowest rate. See rates below.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120061619#Comment_120061619

Of 7,790 new Ford's registered last year (New + Used imports), just 2.2% were S-Max's and Galaxy's. Hyundai sold more new Santa Fe's than there were new and used Fords. I don't think we're going to see a major disaster if the market takes a couple of years to reach the 7 Seater car market, not withstanding that their are options out from PSA for those who are absolutely stuck with the requirement.

Companies aren't selling many 7 seater vehicles because the demand just isn't there.

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120061745#Comment_120061745

Interesting stats, maybe the market for 7 seaters has dried up. The past 2 years sales are probably a bit skewed every which way due to supply issues. I honestly think if something like a 7 seat Kodiaq was available as an EV it would sell well. PSA options are very much window vans with very limited range.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120062505#Comment_120062505

The new sales stats for 2019 look very similar, used imports were a bit higher but it's likely Brexit has cut off the supply. MPV's have been going out of fashion for a long time. I don't think they're anywhere near as popular as you presume.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120062577#Comment_120062577

Yet people who wouldn't be caught dead in an MPV can't wait to drop serious cash on an VW Buzz which IMO, if generous, you would describe as an MPV but being realistic its a panel van with windows. Maybe EVs will be a new dawn for the MPV?

AndrewJRenko

Am I missing something on this story?

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/0131/1352902-company-cars-bik/

Surely BIK only applies to those with 'perk' cars, as opposed to those who need their cars for their job. If the medical rep is driving hundreds of kms on customer business each week, he wouldn't be paying BIK afaik.

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120189553#Comment_120189553

Rates go down as business mileage goes up but everyone pays BIK if they are allowed take the car home.

sprocket123

Question...

If I order an EV with a delivery date post June 30th do I still qualify for e5000 grant?

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120193328#Comment_120193328

No one knows.

The government have said in the budget that they will be revising the grant for July 2023 deliveries, but have not stated what that revision will be exactly.

So, you may or may not be affected depending on the car and the manufacturer might change their prices once they know what the government is doing but at the end of the day you are blindfolded until the government tell us all what exactly they plan to do.

What they might do is give the changes but say that any existing applications in the system will go through as normal and new applications will have the new rules.... again, just a guess.

Casati

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120189553#Comment_120189553

Medical rep driving 50,000km for business (plus whatever personal) in something like a Superb TDI would be charged at 20% rate - so with say 50k list price, the benefit of having the car for personal use is assessed as 10k a year - if your on top rate of tax its 5k a year out of pocket. Even driving an E.V. from next year it would be 13.5% - but on a higher rrp so still expensive

I have no doubt if civil servants had company cars rather than generous mileage allowances BIK rates would be a lot lower

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120193663#Comment_120193663

Not too bad for completely free personal motoring. Cousin is a rep who easily does 40 to 50k km a year business mileage, but also does a heap of private driving that he would not be doing if he didnt have the company car. completely risk free motoring, its not all bad

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120193663#Comment_120193663

So €420 a month for a fully expensed €50k vehicle and no risk of additional costs ? Pretty sweet deal.

witchgirl26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120189553#Comment_120189553

BIK applies if you have exclusive use of the car. So if you use a pool car for work purposes during the day & drop it back in at night, no BIK. However if you are the sole user of the car & it comes home with you, then you pay BIK. Doesn't matter if the car is a perk or if it's for business use. It's based on the open market value of the car & the number of km done in the year.

ThreeGreens

>It's based on the open market value of the car 

Not quite. It's based on the ORIGINAL market value of the car. So a car that cost €50K new (net of any discounts available for cash purchase) but is not 10 years old and only worth €5K is still charged on the original value of €50K.

It's not worth having an old car with BIK. If the car gets older, you're usually better off buying it from the company and charging a mileage rate instead.

liamog

Is this how it works

Person A works for a company and the person buys an ID.3 Business for €45,650 (Price + Delivery - Grant), if they're paying top rates of tax they will have €42,138 tax on the income to pay for the car.

Person B works for a company and the company buys an ID.3 Business, the OMV is €50,650 (no grant). The person is assigned a cash equivalent of 22.5% of €11,396.25 and pays €5,470 BIK for use of the car.

Does this mean that the break even point from an income taxes paid point of view is just over 7 and a half years?

Casati

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120195519#Comment_120195519

Interesting calculation, never saw anybody consider it in that manner. Think you need to include the total running costs to be fair - i.e. BIK at 22.5% assumes the company pay all costs of keeping the car inc repairs, servicing, insurance, valeting, charging costs, road tax etc.

Very tricky funding an employees home charging costs though - it not like spending 50 quid on diesel and producing a receipt as part of the monthly expenses claim so I wonder if most EV company car drivers tend to use charging stations on the road?

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120195705#Comment_120195705

Very tricky funding an employees home charging costs though - it not like spending 50 quid on diesel and producing a receipt as part of the monthly expenses claim so I wonder if most EV company car drivers tend to use charging stations on the road?

Some home charge points can produce a report of charging sessions... date, time, kWh's used. That, along with your mileage, gives you a means to bill the company.

Whether a company would bother with that level of detail is another thing, but charge point operators are thinking about this scenario.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120195786#Comment_120195786

Could you be charging a different car though?

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120196246#Comment_120196246

Absolutely, but at the same time an employee could use their work fuel card to refuel any vehicle

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120196269#Comment_120196269

Aren’t the garage staff supposed to check the reg on the fuel card?

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120196277#Comment_120196277

If your talking about someone who's going to be committing fraud by charging a different car and submitting as expenses they're probably ok lying to the staff at the garage and giving the wrong reg for the same reason.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120196302#Comment_120196302

Aren’t the garage staff supposed to look out and check the reg on the vehicle themselves?

witchgirl26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120195373#Comment_120195373

Apologies you're correct its on the original market value. To be honest, most places I've seen who offer company cars have the on a 4-5 year lease term & most that have a car allowance with mileage claims, have a clause where they want the car to be less than x years old.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120195705#Comment_120195705

My workplace have charging points at varying sites around the country which you need the work app to unlock but they also allow you to claim for charging overnight at home. They know about how much in kwh that is used to charge the various models of EV that they have available fully & you have to submit both the monetary cost of charging & the kwh used in the charge so that it can be checked. It's quite expensive to use the ESB network for charging all the time so that's discouraged.

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120196338#Comment_120196338

They are retail staff and work for the garages benefit, they are not working on behalf of revenue.

Take payment for fuel, milk, eggs, whatever and move on to next customer

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120196656#Comment_120196656

They should be working on behalf of the garage clients, who are bringing good business to the garage via the fuel card. It would be remarkably easy for any accountant to compare fuel card purchases against mileage on the car and identify any anomalies.

liamog

I think so long as people aren't taking too many liberties nobody is going to pay that much attention, if someone's mileage is way out of line with their reported kWh of charging it's likely not be investigated. You'd spot it very quick on an excel sheet if you had suspicions.

Casati

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120196641#Comment_120196641

Charging costs at home could really add up - especially if employee isnt on night rate which is fair enough as it generally results in higher day rates. For a company car driver doing 200km a day they could easily be using 40 units @ 50 cent a unit = €100 a week = €5000 a year per car.

I understand how your management could agree that its a reasonable expense to pay the employee, but how does that pass their auditors if there is no vat receipt to back it all up? My accountant kills us if we dont have a vat receipt in the company name for all expenses.

Berty

You don't need a VAT receipt for certain allowances. You can, for example, give an employee a working from home allowance(non taxable) without needing receipts.

On fuel cards. Not all cards have real reg numbers. My circle k card is generic like 01D12345 or something but I have my name on it. I pay my own bill, so won't abuse it.

Over the years I've seen fuel cards abused with either multiple transactions and seen a case where a van driver filled up a few barrells but he went way over the number of LTRs his van could hold so easily spotted by the fuel card company. It was an auto alert to the employer that the card might be compromised.

As auditing records goes, mileage should be reported on regular intervals, you can link them through timesheet submissions or expense reporting so arguably you could submit electricity usage in the same way you might submit other time information like mileage, vehicle audits, timecards or whatever. Reports can be linked, if using payroll reporting software. I know, I've ran those reports.

If you stay in a hotel overnight and the company pays for food not drink, when you submit your bill you can elect what to request repayment on. You could do this with electricity rates but you would likely need to submit the bills.

I consult in payroll so have some knowledge on the processes at least.

cetusa

What do we think will happen to the price of new and used BEVs when the SEAI Grant ends? Are new EVs going to go up by €5000 or will the car companies swallow the majority of the cost? And will used EVs bought with the grant go up in value?