NZ Tour 2022 - Māori June 29th, NZ July 2nd, NZ July 9th, Māori July 12th, NZ July 16th, KO 8.05am

AbusesToilets

Earls and Aki, that is a baffling choice. NZ with the wing debutante too, how'd that work out the last time?

cuttingtimber22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270573#Comment_119270573

Casey played reasonably well yesterday.

cuttingtimber22

Earls has been a fantastic servant for Ireland. Yes he is at the end of his career but he is a very intelligent player and he still has gas. He is a known quantity and has scored a lot of tries. The back three as a unit on Saturday is far more balanced.

Two players who would have rightfully started ahead of him are both injured. Larmour is mixed as we all know and also played 80 mins yesterday, and moving Keenan who is one of the best in world out of position to accommodate Lowry is not really feasible.

clsmooth

Can Earls do two games in 4 days at this age? Some ask of him.

TRC10

If the plan was for Earls to start the 1st test, why the f*ck did he start on Wednesday? He didn't need to, Lowry could have played 15 with JOB on the wing.

That makes virtually no sense.

TRC10

And I can't see the logic in Ed Byrne, who is buried down the depth chart at Leinster, being called out ahead of Wycherley who's been starting European knockouts.

StevenToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270871#Comment_119270871

Playing earls twice in a few days reflects poorly on management alright...

Former Former Former

Earls is a winger. He isn't clearing out rucks for 80 minutes, he'll be fine.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270899#Comment_119270899

110% agree

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270723#Comment_119270723

Keenan on the wing isn't "out of position". That's like saying Ben Smith was "out of position" on the wing. He's very comfortable there and has played there for Leinster and Ireland in big games and done very well.

A fresh, fully fit Lowry and Keenan at starting together, makes a lot more sense to me than flogging a 34 year old by making him play 160 minutes in 4 days.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270899#Comment_119270899

That's a reason to have called Wycherly up ahead of Loughman, not ahead of Byrne.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270974#Comment_119270974

I think size came into that selection. Loughman is considerably bigger than Wycherley and probably a better carrier. But that can't be a reason for Ed Byrne getting called out because both Byrne and Wycherley are small. But Wycherley has been playing at a much higher standard.

Realistically, if Byrne didn't play for Leinster, would he even be in the conversation? Absolutely not.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270998#Comment_119270998

I suspect that a major reason for Byrne going ahead of Wycherley is that he's already been part of the Ireland setup and as such is familiar with the calls etc.

For someone being called up as a mid-tour injury replacement I'd say that element adds quite a bit of weight to the decision.

cuttingtimber22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270971#Comment_119270971

Keenan is a world class and proven full back. Why move him? Seriously.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271030#Comment_119271030

I think this could be spot on, a bit like Niall Scannell. (Tho I don’t think we had many alternatives there either).

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271031#Comment_119271031

Because sometimes that's what's best for the team. Owen Farrell is a world class 10, but having him and Smith/Ford both on the pitch is what works best for England. Ben Smith was a world class 15, but very often having him on the wing with McKenzie/Barrett at 15 was what worked best for NZ. Robbie Henshaw is the best 13 in Ireland, but him and Ringrose are the best centres we have right now, so we play Henshaw is his 2nd best position because it's what's best for the team.

We need to stop being so narrow minded in our thinking. Just because someone is world class in one position, doesn't mean they absolutely cannot play anywhere else and any discussion of such needs to be shut down. I think a Lowe/Lowry/Keenan back 3 would work well and I'd like to see it personally. Earls and Healy should have been sent to the glue factory after the 6N.

ionadnapokot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270701#Comment_119270701

I agree. And It was good for him to get the full game.

But would have also liked to have seen Doak get game time. It would have been great for his development and integration into this squad.

ionadnapokot

Is Earls the oldest winger to ever play for Ireland?

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271030#Comment_119271030

Exactly this. Byrne may need to go straight onto the bench this weekend with at best only a captains run under his belt. Bringing out Wycherley to play with this group for the first time ever with nothing but a captains run under his belt, if even, would be a disaster waiting to happen.

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270899#Comment_119270899

I think wycherley has been in Thailand for the last week. Not ideal prep for a NZ test.. but maybe the flip of that is it would have been a shorter flight.

Id assume if healy doesn't make it T o toole is on the bench in the number 18 Jersey.

OldRio

Earls will be well rested after Wednesdays sabbatical that's for sure.

Skyfloater

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271195#Comment_119271195

Sir Anthony O'Reilly springs to mind.

Dubinusa

That bench is meh! Heffernan is just not good enough. I'd have picked Scannell. I think we'll lose this. We just are lacking in a few positions. Henderson gone is a big kick in the Jimmie. I'd have picked Larmour. Earls is near the end and I doubt he makes the world cup. Could be a bad tour. Probably best to get Coombes into the 23 asap. I'd like to see Baird get a run at 6.

The squad is just too small. One match played and already scrambling to bring lads in.

AbusesToilets

Any updates on Hume? Looked like a hip injury maybe

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271861#Comment_119271861

Larmour took a knock yesterday.

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271988#Comment_119271988

Strange that Lowry benched Wednesday and is not in the 23 for Saturday.

I presumed himself and Baird would be in the 23 like the rest of the subs.

Suprised Treadwell got the nod as looked slow compared with mcarthty and baird and baird covers more positions.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270061#Comment_119270061

I can't believe conspiracy theories have penetrated Rugby

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119272128#Comment_119272128

If they decide they need another 2nd-row for cover , I don't think it will be Kleyn.

Based on form and recent involvement in the squad Moloney would be the most likely

CMcsporty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119272007#Comment_119272007

Baird must have done something to somebody’s cornflakes.

He is an ideal impact replacement at Lock.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119272396#Comment_119272396

Not for me.

I think question marks remain around Baird at lock. He's flashy, and he can run fast, but not sure he brings enough grunt. He's like a centre in a forward's body.

b.gud

Apart from the other things mentioned about the team the one that stood out to me was Healy at 18. Firstly it obviously looked like he wouldn't be taking any more part in the tour after yesterdays game. Secondly if he is able to take part in the game why are you playing him at tight head when he's primarily a loose head and putting out tight head back up at loose head? My slightly conspiracy theory on this is that there is a chance that Healy might be fit but they are not too confident so to minimise disruption if he isn't able to make it they are naming him at tight head so that O'Toole can swap in if needed

ionadnapokot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271855#Comment_119271855

Ah how could i forget about Tony? Like how you gave him his full 'title'!!

Looking at it there... i think O'Reily was 33 when he ended up coming back in to play against England. Must read up on that story again.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119272145#Comment_119272145

I thought Kleyn had a very good season in an occasionally average Munster side. Some of the big performances from Munster coincided with his best showings - I would probably pick him ahead of Moloney.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269947#Comment_119269947

Larmour obviously. Or Lowry.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119272968#Comment_119272968

Larmour hurt his shoulder yesterday.

leakyboots

Kleyn would add ballast to the scrum and maul, might be what we need. He's had a very good season. But maybe management want to blood young lads, which is fair enough.

I've my doubts on Baird in the second row. Though he did a good job in the lineout the last day to be fair to him

cuttingtimber22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119273006#Comment_119273006

Kleyn is a good player and has had a good season. Addressed his handling issues and indeed he adds ballast to the scrum.

I thought the treatment by the Irish media of him in 2019 was disgraceful - they were muted for some reason when other foreign imports were capped (Lowe and JGP).

Jump_In_Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119273006#Comment_119273006

Kleyn is 28, I’d consider him young for a lock, ok turning 29 this summer.

Baird is an unbelievably gifted athlete and has shown he has a good command of the other essentials of the game.

He isn't making the decision for selectors so there is obviously something not where it needs to be, but I would hope the standard of coaching in Leinster and Ireland is sufficient that whatever is holding him back can be worked on successfully.

Jump_In_Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119273255#Comment_119273255

Why isn’t Baird an option at 8?

pickarooney

I'd rather Deegan (or Coombes, Conan or Doris)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119273311#Comment_119273311

What's his speed like over 5 meters?

His top speed is head turning, but whether his acceleration is inside the acceptable range of top 8's could be a limiting factor. Similarly his passing could be suspect. A high quality pass at speed under pressure is something that will be tracked by coaches over a season and is critically important for an 8. We think about kicking percentages but what about passing percentages and not just in terms of ball going to hand but the quality, speed and accuracy of the pass in the overall context of the attacking play.

Jump_In_Jack

Not writing Baird off, but he’s probably more suited to playing Gaelic football than rugby.

He doesn’t seem to be powerful enough for a blind side flanker, and he rarely gets the space to stretch his legs and get up a gallop.

Would he be any use on the wing?

Alex Cuthbert is a centimetre taller and 6 kg lighter, Baird could trim down easily enough.

Matt Banahan was 3 centimetres taller and 2kg lighter for another example.

leakyboots

He reminds of Pierre Spies, neither a back row nor a lock. But it's still so early in his career, plenty of time to find his niche

Tigerandahalf

With covid now causing issues and more players likely to pick it up the tour could get very messy by the time the 2nd test has been played. You could then need players to line out against the Maori and a few days later play again in the last test.

I hope our scrum puts in a better performance as if we don't we could be in for a tough night.

Ed Byrne has been called up and Wycherley could be next up so that looks like Warwick won't be tested at this level.

I was listening to Micheál Glennon's rte podcast earlier and he raised some good questions with Stephen Ferris, in particular about centrally contracted players like Murray, Ringrose, etc being undroppable and form players not being given a shot like McCloskey, Warwick and others. He was highlighting how B Vunipola is back in the England fold and how it is probably easier to drop/bring him back in.

I wouldn't mind us taking a hammering if we blooded 5 or 6 players and got some new options. No point in showing your hand too early these days with the amount of analysis done on players and teams.

I hope we get some tight games anyway and a good series would be a great tonic for the game.

When you see the All Blacks not being beaten in Eden Park since 94 and that includes visits from great Wallaby and SA teams the challenge is pretty huge.

StevenToast

Any Ireland win down there in NZ will be right up there as the greatest win in Irish Rugby history....a great opportunity and they get 3 goes at it!

I think the first test is the best chance...

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119273961#Comment_119273961

I'm not optimistic. We get them in the autumn, at home, at the end of their season and on tour. Now we're away from home, at the end of our season and with a good few injuries when you factor innthe injury absences from the squad and the recent injuries. The scrum is a huge comcern too. The tforst match might be the only real chance, particularly if they pick up another injury or two.

Nothing is impossible but big defeats are more likely than any victories.

dublin49

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119273961#Comment_119273961

Totally agree but would take now competitive losing performances where we see some new options emerge.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119273880#Comment_119273880

 was listening to Micheál Glennon's rte podcast earlier and he raised some good questions with Stephen Ferris, in particular about centrally contracted players like Murray, Ringrose, etc being undroppable and form players not being given a shot like McCloskey, Warwick and others.

let’s just look at that piece of analysis and why it highlights everything that’s wrong about that argument. It’s just out and out lazy journalism.

McCloskey is a 12 not a 13, so isn’t competing with Ringrose. Hume is, who didn’t exactly set the world alight on Wednesday before getting injured. McCloskey is behind Aki and Heshaw, both centrally contracted players admittedly but also both far better players too. McCloskey has had plenty of time in camps over the years and never managed to impress enough to push past either.

Warrick is competing with Loughman and Ed Byrne, he is not competing with anyone on a central contract.

Murray is there much as it annoys me. Because he can finish games out. He can bring a level of control that others can’t. In others he’s there because the coaches think he offers something they need. Not because he has a central contract.

What this always boils down to is certain fans not being happy that their current pet favorite, is not getting selected. Then blaming it on central contracts. Which certain lazy journalists latch on to for an easy story. There is no evidence that players are unstoppable because they’re on central contracts. None.

sydthebeat

The fact that there have been centrality contacted players dropped is proof in and of itself.

It's a lazy ill formed argument aimed at the lowest common denominator for "the clicks"