Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866153#Comment_121866153

The thing about the victims that get highlighted - Jean McConville, the other disappeared, Aine Adams, Paul Quinn, Mairia Cahill etc. - is that current politicians in Sinn Fein (and longtime posters on here) repeatedly lied about those victims, indulged in victim-blaming, pretended that the PIRA hadn't killed them etc.

Remember Jean McConville was accused of being an informer and Paul Quinn of criminality, and there are posters on here who supported those claims. Nobody talks about Margaret Tebbit, because they PIRA actually acknowledged that crime.

Other victims get talked about too. Many people are horrified by the way that kids on a boat were blown to bits by a PIRA thug who could see what he was doing, not to mention the many other children killed and maimed by the PIRA.

But hey, we are not allowed talk about these victims because the poor little politicians in Sinn Fein and the sensitive posters on here might get upset about it.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866232#Comment_121866232

You nearly hit the 10 there blanch.

I think today shows a lot of people what was always known by me and others. That the conflict/war was filthy and obscene and that was in a large part due to a state that had no responsibility and were never properly held to account for exacerbating the conflict/war.

I was always of the opinion that the IRA were hardened and callous killers as were all the others involved including the state as we now know.

The cries of 'but but the IRA' are getting more hollow as a result of what we continue to find out. The IRA were a symptom of the conflict/war. We are getting closer and closer to what caused that conflict/war and the irresponsibility of the state in not preventing it and taking part in it.

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866286#Comment_121866286

Yes Francie - it’s all the big bad Brits fault that Marie Cahill was raped, and Paul Quinn was murdered, the Gerry sent Liam off to work with youth groups in Dundalk.

Bad things do indeed happen as a result of conflicts - but conflicts also get “exploited” by bad people looking for cover to commit all kinds of unspeakable acts. There’s acts of war, and there’s war crimes.

Sinn Fein and their die-hard cheerleaders refuse to distinguish one from the other - hence we get the online army piling on to try and silence anyone who highlights the acts committed by the IRA or their members which anywhere else in the world would be acknowledged and prosecuted as war crimes - or simply just crimes

Bobson Dugnutt

Asking for justice for people who died on active duty for the IRA - fine.

Asking for justice for people who were raped, tortured, murdered by the IRA - exploiting victims.

Shinnerlogic.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866411#Comment_121866411

Absolutely. No argument there. I have said before that I believe criminals attached themselves seeing opportunity. I also said Adams was wrong in how he dealt with his brother...I even said he should have resigned. The IRA didn't murder Paul Quinn... the IMC report confirms it. Maria Cahill was not allegedly raped because of the conflict/war, she was raped by a rapist. Women are still being raped.

The point though was that there would not have been a war at all had a state acted responsibly. The conflict would not have been exacerbated had a state acted responsibly even after it begun.

That can still be said while condemning paramilitaries.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866488#Comment_121866488

What do you mean "That can still be said while condemning paramilitaries".

I never heard you condemning the Republican paramilitaries FrancieBrady.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866520#Comment_121866520

I have condemned all the violence from the start>

I don't cherrypick.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866528#Comment_121866528

We were through that before. You always condemned everything the British and loyalists did ( even law abiding actions by law abiding British and loyalists ) but you never condemned anything the Republican paramilitaries did because they were justifiable "acts of war" or some such nonsense.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866534#Comment_121866534

Read carefully: I condemn ALL the violence from the start.

I never supported the IRA or any paramilitary group.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866552#Comment_121866552

So why do or did you never condemn the pIRA, INLA etc. I suppose you are like Gerry Adams ( who never was in the IRA) : you are not in to the politics of condemnation?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866676#Comment_121866676

Read carefully: I condemn ALL the violence from the start.

I never supported the IRA or any paramilitary group.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866721#Comment_121866721

"All the Violence" says you, but you look on the actions of the pIRA as those of an army, of course that was not violence when it came from them, says you. We were through that before. As noted before,you always condemned everything the British and loyalists did ( even law abiding actions by law abiding British and loyalists ) but you never condemned anything the Republican paramilitaries did because they were justifiable "acts of war" or some such nonsense.

You are going around in circles, like Adams who would not condemn the bombings and actions of the pIRA but yet he said he condemned all violence.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866801#Comment_121866801

Last time.

Read carefully: I condemn ALL the violence from the start.

I never supported the IRA or any paramilitary group.

If you need to make stuff up about me, that says all we need to know about your argument.

maccored

here we are again with all the experts on the north in the one thread - with at least 95% of them getting their information from newspapers and not from actually living there. Nobody wanted what happened, but it happened because of the greed on an outside nation. You cant condemn normal people for fighting back against an armed oppressor .

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121868395#Comment_121868395

You say " it happened because of the greed on an outside nation." Are you referring about Ireland's claim to N.Ireland in our constitution, which was dropped in the GFA?

You say " You cant condemn normal people for fighting back against an armed oppressor".

There was not that much fighting back, if you mean literally "fighting back" from normal people. Across Co Fermanagh for example, 112 people were killed as a result of terrorism in the Troubles. The vast majority of those were Protestants (be they off duty part time farmers / part time police shot in the back, or people in Enniskillen etc ) murdered by Republicans. Some would think of it / call it ethnic cleansing along the border. Most of the murders have gone unsolved. But one thing for sure, most people did not join the loyalist paramilitaries to fight back against the greed of an outside nation, as you call it.

As the leader of FF pointed out yesterday, the pIRA was responsible for most of the deaths during the Troubles. M. Martin is after saying that Sinn Féin should accept that the campaign was “wrong and futile”. Maybe if they did that it would help them form a government, who knows.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121868395#Comment_121868395

I agree with you - the North is a different place. Only people who live there understand Northern Ireland and are part of Northern Ireland. That is why a united Ireland makes no sense.

Rjd2

NO-NO looks a cert , its a very embarrassing result for the government but I feel that SF have really missed a trick of not been on the no side.

Its all antidotal obviously but speaking to SF voters who voted no Mary Lou been on the wrong side has not gone down well at all.

Be interesting to see the breakdown of voters when its all sorted.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121870721#Comment_121870721

speaking to SF voters who voted no Mary Lou been on the wrong side has not gone down well at all.

As long as the vast majority turn out and vote for them at the GE SF won't care. They seem to be out of step with a big chunk of their support on immigration too but are just ploughing ahead...

Rjd2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121870817#Comment_121870817

I think they are worried about been grouped with trash like the national party, but thankfully in the real world people are more nuanced when it comes to immigration.

This result is far from the end of the world especially as the main parties won't be pleased but just seems like a massive missed opportunity for SF to be on the side of no. I suspect they felt the only people who would vote no would be a small fringe national party type people and well they got that wrong lol!

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121871423#Comment_121871423

It will be SF's fault with some before the weekend is over, no doubt.

MIKEKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121871881#Comment_121871881

Mary Lou said during the week that they would re run it until it passed . Today she blamed the wording . Yet she called for a yes vote

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121871423#Comment_121871423

They are a pro immigrarton left wing party!

Any SF voter that thinks SF will reduce immigration clearly doesnt understand left wing politics.

What is the draw to SF from rural voters? Thats something I am still unclear on.

Ozvaldo

Party sits on the fence with every issue it faces deeming it an irrelevant party

Ozvaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121872458#Comment_121872458

The pro immigration open border policy isn't going down well with your average joe

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121872503#Comment_121872503

I agree, but dont understand why SF voters would think SF would have a different approach.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121872417#Comment_121872417

Because she thought the referendum proposals would be an improvement on what is there currently

I don't see what's so confounding about that

“In the end, we decided not to allow the perfect be the enemy of the good.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/sinn-fein-to-campaign-yes-yes-in-referenda-despite-imperfect-care-amendment-1591362.html

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121872417#Comment_121872417

Yeh, I think they went for a Yes but said it wasn’t worded properly at the start of the campaign.

hotmail.com

Mary Lou heckled I seen on the news. No surprise.

She is becoming increasingly toxic and I suspect there are moves behind the scenes to remove her.

Clo-Clo

Sinn fein TD's now seem to be doing few sideline to raise some cash

https://fb.watch/qIzZYyPn5A/

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121872716#Comment_121872716

Serious whiff of desperation off that one Clo?