Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122281523#Comment_122281523

I answered the part of the post that makes sense. The second part makes no sense to me.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122279950#Comment_122279950

Quite obviously the last four years have told us that FF can be trusted in that regard, as they held up their end of the deal and first elected Leo and then Simon as Taoiseach.

Trust is a much much bigger issue when it comes to Sinn Fein. Their record in the North of pulling down governments for little or no reason gives nobody any trust in them.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122281897#Comment_122281897

 for little or no reason 

That is just your personal distaste for SF dictating what is a good or bad reason for pulling down governments.

Irish governments have fallen repeatedly because a coalition party has had enough and will not support it anymore. Same thing happens in the North and everywhere else there are coalitions.

Of course blind eyes will be turned to that staple of coalitions if it means SF can be isolated.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122281897#Comment_122281897

Difference there is that both Civil War parties wanted to keep SF out so had a large common ground. Generally speaking FF can't be trusted with a whole lot

Wasn't it the DUP, who we know are close FG allies, that collapsed Stormont on the basis of an Irish language bill? And then refused to take their seats as they were going to hold the "deputy first minister" role

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122281979#Comment_122281979

The paranoia that it is all about Sinn Fein displays an enormous amount of arrogance. FF and FG came together for the good of the country. Remember FG were happy to step back into opposition until it became clear that SF were unable/unwilling to form a government and FG stepped up to the plate in the country's interest.

Sinn Fein have been responsible for most of the time that Stormont has been collapsed, and it was them who collapsed it because there wasn't an Irish language bill.

Not a single party trusts Sinn Fein, that will be the focus of the election.

Vote Greens, Labour or Social Democrats if you want a left-wing voice in government, vote Sinn Fein or PBP if you want a left-wing voice shouting in the wilderness.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122281979#Comment_122281979

SF walked because the First Minister, embroiled in a corruption scandal, would not stand aside (she wasn't asked to resign, just asked to step aside) and because of the longer running misuse of the Petition Of Concern being used to block agreed(by a majority of MLA's) rights.
The DUP pulled it down and used the people as hostages to try to get something that Stormont couldn't give and could not, even if there was majority agreement (there wasn't anyway) effect.

Our last coalition government here fell because the main party did not have the support.

Coalitions collapse, everywhere. Nothing unique about that, here or in north or anywhere else.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122280387#Comment_122280387

The Greens have changed this country dramatically from the position of being a very small party. They have no concern for whether that results in them being decimated, because from their perspective, the permanent changes they have made will benefit the greater good. Those changes won't be reversed - watch the election campaign where SF will have to back down and support everything the Greens did. A long-lasting legacy through achievement means that the Greens rank far far above Sinn Fein in what they have done for this country.

Effectively, what you are saying is that you will only vote for a party that puts its own self-interests in maintaining power ahead of the best interests of the country. Labour in 2011 put the interests of the country first and lost out, the Greens in 2020 the same. Those parties will be getting my first two preferences for a long time because of that willingness to put the country first.

Anyone like you who votes for a party on the basis that they are putting self-preservation first is beneath contempt and the parties like that - FF and SF - don't get any preference from me.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282105#Comment_122282105

The Greens have changed this country dramatically 

Most of the dramatic change in this country was driven by our membership of the EU.
And the Irish Greens are no longer represented there.
Changes will continue to happen across the EU without their input.

I never mentioned anything about 'self preservation'.

What I object to is smaller parties allowing themselves to be used and willingly allowing whatever mandate they have to be diluted and ignored to …eh…help preserve FF or FG dominance.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122281979#Comment_122281979

SF met with the Greens first after the last election, not a single party in Ireland came to an agreement with SF

So instead of talking about FF and FG maybe you should consider why no party joined with them?

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282105#Comment_122282105

The Greens stuck to a plan and delivered on it, something they can be proud of, a lot of good has been done in a short space of time by the green party

Which of course made them a target for some other party supporters who have driven a narrative for a few years now online.

I do reference the most vocal anti Green person onboards who is on any thread to do with environment etc, they proudly stated they would vote SF because they would put a stop to the wind generation nonsense, then I pointed to the SF document which they released saying they would in fact speed up the deployment of wind. Another SF supporter who hadn't a clue what their policies are

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282265#Comment_122282265

The Greens stuck to a plan and delivered on it, something they can be proud of, a lot of good has been done in a short space of time by the green party

You personally are entitled to that opinion, but ultimately the electorate are the sovereign deciders of that.

The Greens, like any other party, have done some good and some bad. And their electoral performance will wane and boom, like it does for others.

At the moment the electorate don't seem impressed with their performance on LA's or in the EU.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282265#Comment_122282265

The greens election manifesto 2020

A 7 per cent per year fall in emissions to reach the EU CO2 reduction target of a minimum 50 per cent by 2030.

Current best case scenario is 29%

EV charge points at all petrol stations

Probably the easiest one to implement, not achieved

retrofit 750,000 houses to improve energy efficiency

Definitely failed

€210 million per annum for retrofitting, and a budget of €40 million to train 20,000 workers who can specialise in this area

Maybe we have 20,000 qualified workers specialised but I can't even find 1 to do dry lining insulation, not achieved

all students in the State be entitled to free public transport

Not achieved

On education, Ms Martin said the party wanted the pupil-teacher ration to drop from the current 25 to 1, to 20 to 1 over the lifetime of the next government.

Not achieved

Actually I'll stop there, if anybody has a list of what they did achieve from their 2020 manifesto it might be a shorter list

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/election-2020-green-party-manifesto-outlines-2-5bn-retrofitting-plan-1.4151719

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282484#Comment_122282484

You are aware the Green Party is a small party in the government

The achievements they have made in rewetting the bog, FiT, 0% VAT on solar, cycle lanes etc

With such a small percentage of the government it's a lot of good news

Anyway plenty of thread to discuss the Green Party and their achievements

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282662#Comment_122282662

The achievements they have made in rewetting the bog, FiT, 0% VAT on solar, cycle lanes etc

Exactly, some good ^ and as Red points out some bad/failures too.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282662#Comment_122282662

I feel that the goal of an EV charging station at every petrol station was an open goal from 3 feet away that they managed to hit the crossbar on

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282695#Comment_122282695

You can't force a garage to install a charger if they don't want to.

Plus the demand is not required at the moment, I have an electric car for 8 years now I think and used a public charge point maybe 10 times in that time. With bigger batteries now most people will never need to use one. But that's off topic

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282731#Comment_122282731

Yeah, I've a PHEV and I only use the home charger. If battery runs out, car switches to petrol, no point charging at station.

Never used a public charger.

FrancieBrady

So two random people on the internet absolve the Greens from failing to implement a part of their policy. That’s profound.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282484#Comment_122282484

End the issuing of oil and gas exploration and extraction licences and stand firmly against the importation of fracked gas from other territories. Achieved

Ban single use plastic and set up a bottle deposit and return scheme, to dramatically reduce plastic waste. Achieved.

Get Ireland moving by doubling investment in public transport, committing 10% of transport funds to cycling and 10% to walking. Achieved

https://www.greenparty.ie/campaigns/all-campaigns/towards-2030-decade-change

That is 25% of their 12 main points, all achieved, not bad for a party that is a small part of government. On the ones you list, many of them are partially achieved, such as the investment in apprenticeship. For example, look at this, another one of their twelve priorities:

Reduce pupil-teacher ratios, invest in third-level institutions, and end pay inequality in education

They have reduced the pupil-teacher ratio, extra investment at third-level (Funding the Future) has happened, and school secretaries have had their pay inequality addressed with caretakers next.

Dig out their full manifesto and have a good look at it, there is a huge amount that they have implemented from their promises, much more than any other small party has ever got done. I could list many more achievements.

But, hey, enough about the Greens, this is the SF thread. What have SF got implemented from their manifesto?

Would that be a big fat zero?

DubCount

What is the SF manifesto? We want a United Ireland and we want to be in power in stead of the other lot. Everything else is just a list of promises to everyone and anyone so they can get into power. Who pays for all these promises - "the rich people". Who are the rich people - anyone with more money than you.

At least the Greens have an ideology they believe in and are prepared to try and achieve. SF need to stop trying to be all things to all people and stand up for what they actually believe in. What promises are their priorities and how will they pay for them (the truth).

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122285169#Comment_122285169

"the rich people" is a moving target with SF, first it was 140k, then it was 100k

Next week it could be 60k based on the amount of times they struggle with maths.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283136#Comment_122283136

End the issuing of oil and gas exploration and extraction licences and stand firmly against the importation of fracked gas from other territories. Achieved

Not hard to do in fairness, we never had much oil extraction off our coastline. Important to note it only affects new licences, the existing ones can carry on as usual

Ban single use plastic and set up a bottle deposit and return scheme, to dramatically reduce plastic waste. Achieved.

EU policies - these would have been introduced regardless of the greens making deals with the Civil War parties. If the SF manifesto said all new cars would be EVs by 2035 or I'd be as critical

Get Ireland moving by doubling investment in public transport, committing 10% of transport funds to cycling and 10% to walking. Achieved

Not sure on this one, there's more cycle lanes, sure, but they are vastly under-utilised and the slow moving vehicles are now polluting our environment more as a result, it feels like they just threw them anywhere without any real thought as to how they might get used, is this really the definition of success?

I was waiting 20 minutes the other day for a bus that was 5 minutes away according to TFI Live. In the end it never showed up so I just got a taxi. Maybe I'm the exception and public transport has doubled in efficiency in other parts of the country?

So really they only had one achievement despite having 3 of the 15, or 20% of the ministerial portfolios including transport and environment. Two places where they could have made significant improvements but they fell flat on their face

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286598#Comment_122286598

Nonsense.

The Greens have had a huge influence on this government, that is why you lot complain about them so much.

Even Francie claims that we don't need a Green party anymore because they have been so successful they have got the other parties to adopt their policies.

BusConnects, Metrolink, DartPlus, Cycle lanes, pedestrian improvements, Climate Action Act, recycling, etc. The list of achievements is long.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286598#Comment_122286598

You seem to be unsure about a lot of things. Ryan stopped theexpansion of the Corribb gas field, he stopped the development of Barryroe, has significantly delayed the Limerick Cork Motorway and other road projects, he got the Foynes railway line being build. He stopped the Tarbert/Ballylongford gas storage plant. None of these actions made economic sense and neither FG, FG or SF would have carried put those actions but the f@@ker did it.

So stop BSing, wake up and smell the coffee

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286598#Comment_122286598

Not sure on this one, there's more cycle lanes, sure, but they are vastly under-utilised and the slow moving vehicles are now polluting our environment more as a result

Do you have anything to back this up?

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286811#Comment_122286811

Childers Road and Shannon bridge

Cycle lane built over a lane of traffic in each situation over the last 2 years, rarely seen used, never to a large extent, traffic slower and more polluting as a result

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286951#Comment_122286951

rarely seen used, never to a large extent

You sit there counting traffic?

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286784#Comment_122286784

That probably fairly true. I'm genuinely not sure at all what "the spansion ofvyge Corribb gas field" is.

Not sure if the gas terminal in Kerry would make a huge difference either way to our economy, I'd imagine if I did the blueshirts would have vetoed it.

Stopping the building of the Cork-Limerick motorway, while it's probably increased the number of road deaths in that part of the country, it also makes busses run slower between the 2 cities so is that really a win for public transport? I think not. Didn't Ossian Smith mention a vision for a greenway between the 2 cities? How's that progressing?

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286956#Comment_122286956

Travel the road every day. First hand experience. Don't think anybody has taken the time to survey the exact amount of cycling traffic on it

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122286665#Comment_122286665

Let's break that down

BusConnects - Not a green plan, started in 2017

Metrolink - Is that the metro for Dublin that's been going since 2005 and still hasn't had a shovel in the ground? Some achievement

DartPlus- The plans started in 1972

Cycle lanes - The ones that nobody uses? Ok that's a win

Pedestrian improvements - Where?

Climate Action Act - Not working, in fact things are getting worse

Recycling - We had recycling since the early 2000's???