Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

Dont Be at It · 05-10-2023 1:39pm

OK, Rafa. I see you're conveniently ignoring the fact that fianna fail also said they wouldn't form a government with Sinn fein before the last election too?

A government had to be formed for the good of the country in the midst of a crisis so FF sided with fine gael for reasons I've outlined above. You saying it was a cynical move compared to going in with SF is all based on stuff you've made up about Martin not having any claim to be Taoiseach when it comes to negotiations, etc.

Bobson Dugnutt · 05-10-2023 1:43pm

SFs murky financial dealings are still to be properly examined. How does the party own so much property, why does their financial director own so much of his own, what was he doing running cash businesses, what is the link to the British Virgin Islands etc. Not sure shaking a bucket in the pub can bring in that much coin.

FrancieBrady · 05-10-2023 1:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121197350#Comment_121197350

Yes, sleeveen politics at it finest...say one thing, do another.

Other than that, not sure what point you are actually making.

Dont Be at It · 05-10-2023 1:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121197440#Comment_121197440

Stuck to his word on not going in with Sinn fein last time out so I guess you could says he's a man of integrity. Depends which way your waters flow.

FrancieBrady · 05-10-2023 2:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121197464#Comment_121197464

But the point you made was there was 'no option' for him only the FG one.

I have shown you that there was, he just decided it wasn't available anymore. We can speculate as to why that was.

IMO He considered the option of SF, opened the door in time honoured political speak and then, when it transpired he was on an equal footing shut that door again.

Dont Be at It · 05-10-2023 2:20pm

FF clearly didn't want to go in with SF, so coalition with FG was the only option for them.

"I have shown you that there was, he just decided it wasn't available anymore."

Hypothetically of course there was an option, in the same way that SF could rounded up all the left parties, greens and independents to form a government but didn't. But in reality it wasn't an option. Surely someone with a strong handle on politics and political speak knows this. FF said beforehand that they didn't want to go in with them, stuck to their word and didn't go in with them.

FrancieBrady · 05-10-2023 2:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121197642#Comment_121197642

So you agree, there was another 'option'.

So I was right to challenge your assertion that the 'only option' was with FG and the Greens.

We were discussing a comment you made on FF's options here, not SF's.

Dont Be at It · 05-10-2023 2:34pm

Read back over my previous comments and decide if I agree with that. Should be pretty obvious👍

FF didn't want to go into coalition with Sinn Fein. SF didn't want to go into government with anyone. You can safely conclude that it wasn't an option.

FrancieBrady · 05-10-2023 2:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121197751#Comment_121197751

Please respect the conversation and preface that with 'IMO' as I have done.

I disagree, for the reasons stated. The evidence suggests Martin had no issues negotiating if certain things were in play.

I think the chances of two equal mandates negotiating a programme for government would have interested SF.

Not so much trying to round up the sheep aat a crossroads a left coalition entailed.

I think that is how they will seek to form a government next time out, negotiating on an equal footing.

SharkMX · 05-10-2023 2:57pm

I was talking to a friend a few weeks ago who is the brother of a SF TD. He was telling me that the last election SF made sure they didnt win by not fielding enough candidates. A sneaky way of continuing to hurl from the ditch but not actually to have to do anything in government.

He said that this time they are trying to think of ways to make sure they dont get into government either, because if they did it is a one way ticket to the has beens dock. Their best way forward is to stay as they are in opposition but have more seats. That way they can soapbox all they like and not have to pay the piper.

So he told me that they will now start fights with every potential bed mate they see, so they can accuse the other party of being the reason SF cant form a government.

So watch closely and be ready to pick up on SF sabotaging themselves, just a little each time as the months go by.

Dont Be at It · 05-10-2023 3:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121197801#Comment_121197801

Why would I preface that with IMO when it's true.

What evidence is this you talk of? Ruling out going into government with SF both pre and post election should be all the evidence you require.

Rather than using "evidence" to back up your assertions you seem to do the complete opposite and come up with wild speculation based off "facts" which don't actually give any basis to the opinion at all 😅

"Not so much trying to round up the sheep aat a crossroads a left coalition entailed".....

I guess Mary Lou is a sleeveen for going back on her word and making pretty much no attempt to form such a government so.

Dont Be at It · 05-10-2023 3:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121197910#Comment_121197910

Not sure about this now. I think they're ready to enter government at this stage. Surely it's now or never.

SharkMX · 05-10-2023 3:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198058#Comment_121198058

I reckon it will be never. I think they know they would not be able to govern and they think best to keep anyone else from finding that out too.

Wont be too long now til we find out for sure

BlueSkyDreams · 05-10-2023 3:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198068#Comment_121198068

Its up to FF whether SF get in or not.

FF will be the decision maker as to whether we stay with FFG or move to a FFS govt! :)

SF wont have enough seats on their own to form a majority and will be too short in numbers to rely on Soc Dems and Greens etc.

They need FF or FG to form a majority.

No chance with FG, so its FF or bust.

FrancieBrady · 05-10-2023 3:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198046#Comment_121198046

Of course SF didn't want to go into government with anyone. is an 'opinion'.

You can no more prove that, than I can my opinion that MM prioritised being Taoiseach over everything including the country.

A bit of self awareness please.

FrancieBrady · 05-10-2023 3:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121197910#Comment_121197910

At least that's the worry of the white beardy men in the hills of Antrim coming down to take over the state, over. 😁

Bobson Dugnutt · 05-10-2023 3:52pm

It’s more the fat baldy thugs upstairs in the Felons Club, Francie. The old heavy gang. The lads in the pub the night McCartney was sliced open from his groin to his neck. Those lads. Few of them died over the past few years in fairness.

blanch152 · 05-10-2023 3:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198046#Comment_121198046

MLMD spent the whole election campaign and pretty much every moment since claiming that the country needs a left-wing government. It is only in recent months that she has gone a little quieter on it.

There was never any serious interest in SF in going into government. They knew the parties of the left wouldn't hold together - they are all too mad -hence they made no effort to form a left-wing government with independent support, even though the numbers were there. They also knew that going back in with FF or FG would be too much for some of their recent support so they didn't too that either. They sat on their hands for the whole post-election period while mouthing off once in a while, to the extent that PBP lost patience with them (probably proving it wise that they didn't try for form a left-wing government).

Next time out is different. FF are the game in town, MLMD as Taoiseach and some experienced FF ministers to make sure the government doesn't do cock-up from day 1. That agenda may explain why some people are engaged in revisionism about the last election outcome. It is easier to sell a future FF coalition is you somehow persuade people that a version of history gets accepted that says you were interested in it the last time.

FrancieBrady · 05-10-2023 4:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198134#Comment_121198134

I think it would be great if the conspiracy didn’t keep shifting.

One minute they are desperate to take the state for their own duplicitous ends, the next they don’t want it.

Like all conspiracy theories they either fall flat on their backsides or get tedious.

Dont Be at It · 05-10-2023 4:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198095#Comment_121198095

Mary Lou stated at the count centre during the last election that she wants to form a government "ideally with no Fianna Fail or Fine Gael" in it. That's not my opinion, that's what she said. But yeah you're right, she was gagging to get into bed with Micháel. A little slice of self awareness pie for you. 😉

So now I guess we can go back to your musings and opinions that are totally baked in reality.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198157#Comment_121198157

Yep, pretty much agree on all this. They're slowly slowly rowing back on all the lefties rethoric and policies. I guess that makes them "cynical sleeveens" according to some in here. Or just plain old politicians.

FrancieBrady · 05-10-2023 4:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198230#Comment_121198230

You plainly don’t understand ‘ideally’.

It’s entirely different to saying ‘never’.

Bur sure as it’s raining outside Mary Lou gets mis-interpreted by you because it suits you to ignore the room she gave herself.

You aren’t making a convincing argument.

Dont Be at It · 05-10-2023 4:30pm

Haha, good man. And she said it in English as well not Irish, which further undermines its credibility.

Suppose your thinking that fianna fail and Sinn fein didn't go into coalition because Micháel is a cynical sleeveen who would have had no moral claim to being Taoiseach isn't a mis-representation of facts at all now is it?

FrancieBrady · 05-10-2023 4:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198282#Comment_121198282

What is your issue with her saying what she wanted a government to be ideally?

You or I can have an ‘ideal’ government. That doesn’t for a second mean you or I cannot form some other type of government.

Saying you would ‘never’ form a government to curry favour/attract votes is cynical, if you turn around and do what you said you wouldn’t.

blanch152 · 05-10-2023 4:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198282#Comment_121198282

Wow, it now seems that the correct interpretation of MLMD is to conclude that she is speaking out of both sides of the mouth all the time. When she says "ideally" she wouldn't, she really means she would jump at the chance.

Should we apply that logic to her election manifesto and alternative budgets?

Dont Be at It · 05-10-2023 4:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198315#Comment_121198315

Yeah, as I said earlier I'd say she was gagging to get into bed with fianna fail last time out. That sleeveen Micháel scuppering her best laid plans. 🤣

Wonder have sinn fein ever said they would or wouldn't do something before rowing back on it? Ah, probably not - they're not a cynical bunch... *Cough cough* SIPO investigation...

FrancieBrady · 05-10-2023 5:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198395#Comment_121198395

You seem to be having some trouble there.

The conversation is not about what SF would or would not do, however much you try to deflect now.

You claimed FF had 'no option'.

They plainly did.

Dont Be at It · 05-10-2023 5:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198379#Comment_121198379

😂😂

FrancieBrady · 05-10-2023 5:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198379#Comment_121198379

Mary Lou is a politician and was smart enough to give herself room.

Michael basically made a fool of himself.

Dont Be at It · 05-10-2023 5:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198405#Comment_121198405

In the real world it's not an option if neither party wanted to do it. 👍

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198418#Comment_121198418

😂 This is gold - parody level stuff. Mary lou says "ideally" - smart politician and not a sleeveen. Micháel doesn't say it do is a fool and a sleeveen. Great stuff now.

FrancieBrady · 05-10-2023 5:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198445#Comment_121198445

She is a politician...politician are politic...no big shock there.

Politicians that are smart do not back themselves into cul-de-sacs they have to embarrassingly reverse out of.

Michael did and looks foolish and sleeveenish as a result.

McDonald left herself room, had she entered negotiations with FF, she had covered that. It wasn't her ideal government but she would try to make it work.

Don't apply for a party strategist job if you don't understand this simplest of things.

Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

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